On Dec 16, 2012, at 3:28 PM, Jan E. [email protected] wrote:
It seems we have a very different understanding of being a programmer.
Somebody who can do basic tasks within a team that looks after him is a
code monkey to me, not a programmer. Yeah, you can probably become a
decent code monkey in a few months. Many school kids today don’t even
have to be taught the basics, because they’ve already published projects
on GitHub, maybe done some small jobs etc.
I never wrote that it makes you a fully-fledged programmer - but it can
you fit for working in a company. Many companies pass by perfectly good
talent because of exactly that mindset.
Also, the differentiation between “code monkey” and “programmer” on
is maybe the most snobbish thing I heard in a while, if not actively
Granted: there is a difference between someone that just copy and pastes
code and someone that applies skills. But if you apply programming
in a creative way - how meager they may be, you are nevertheless a
programmer - just not a good one (yet).
But that doesn’t make them programmers! There’s a big difference
between, say, writing an SQL query that kind of works – and being able
to understand an execution plan and write a query that won’t break down
even if thousands of customers visit the page simulatenously. A
programmer to me is somebody who actually knows what he’s doing and can
come up with workable solutions in a short amount of time. And that’s
something you won’t learn in a few weeks.
I’ve seen people with zero knowledge in either algebra and SQL doing
optimization perfectly well because they saw the need and learned what
had to learn. It took them long, but hey! Taking the right actions and
what you need for it is what makes a programmer, not your skill level.
And yes: I would never let such a person work alone, but with more
supervision, you can see a lot of awesome things happening.
Of course you don’t necessarily need formal education. But it does help
to come down to earth and get real knowledge and experience as opposed
to “Hey, I’ve read some PHP tutorials, I’m a web developer now!”.
We’re not talking about “some guy who read some tutorials after
but taking a course for a quarter of a year. (assuming that the course
It’s like with any other serious job: I’m sure there are many great
self-taught architects out there. But when you hire one, you probably
want him to have an actual diploma and not just a certificate from
“Learn statics in only 1 week!”.
Now you are mingeling topics: I agree with you that a course certificate
does not give you any more credibility in the hiring process. I just
agree with the premise that such a course can only yield unusable
personnel. Even self-teching yields perfectly good people from time to
so how can a good
I’m not saying that those Flatiron courses are useless. I don’t know
them. But I think they give a a very wrong impression of what you can do
with your knowledge. What kind of jobs will that be when all you need is
a few weeks of training?
As I said: basic jobs with an opportunity to improve. Lets face it: Many
are searching for people to make even the most miniscule tasks. At
allow very basic tasks to be done by expensive