Ruby IDE's

Ruby
41

I have Netbeans 6.7 on the Mac Os X platform and its quite an ordeal to
get it to install gems without putting it in the wrong directory because
it executes installation that requires installation using sudo and does
not prompt for the password, so stuff gets installed in the wrong
directory.

I agree, that for a beginner like me, it’s best to use the command line
… I do not trust the choices Netbeans makes when creating a project,
without asking me, and its rather confusing to search for the waldo I
need to use every time I turn around.

So, I have been doing the Axe book stuff in command line because if the
exercise doesn’t work, and I didn’t do exactly as told to do, there
would be more of that nagging idea that I might not have done it right.

Besides, knowing how to do it without the IDE, will come in handy in
that day where the IDE gets upgraded with some nasty bug and you can’t
use it, or when you do you don’t get the expected results.

Example:

Yesterday I learned that simply because some thing has been out for
awhile and few are complaining doesn’t mean its working … I had been
trying to use jEdit as my editor but the Ruby Plugin it uses, was
accidentally compiled with a later java than a lot of folks have on
their machines.

Trying to find the correct java for this Mac is a nightmare, of
confusion, nothing is clear, everything is ambiguous. I see stuff called
J Something 5 that claims to install version 6 of j something and vice
versa.

Lesson: The more complex tools you use to build a project, the more
chances things will go wrong due to bugs in the tools.

From: Robert D. [email protected]
To: ruby-talk ML [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 8:43:51 AM
Subject: Re: ruby IDE’s

On 7/20/09, Tom C. [email protected] wrote:

James, I’m a big fan of yours, but I’m also keenly aware of poorly
constructed arguments (e.g., ad hominem it bastard brothers). I think I
have to agree with Marc here. I think he was making a legitimate
proposition - in form if not in substance. He may be right, but I cannot
confirm it.
Nor can he (or nor does he want ) It is easy to tell phrases like
“experience will show [you]”
but there is no useful information at all. So I asked him twice to
provide some…
Your advice however was sound in the way that you clearly stated why a
sophisticated IDE might be harmful for a beginner (Xavier elaborated
nicely).

Given that, poor OP is reading a plethora of posts indicating cool
IDEs and it will be difficult and time consuming for him to chose.

Cheers
Robert

42

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 9:09 AM, Garry F.[email protected]
wrote:

Trying to find the correct java for this Mac is a nightmare, of confusion, nothing is clear, everything is ambiguous. I see stuff called J Something 5 that claims to install version 6 of j something and vice versa.

While not totally consistent naming-wise, I’m not sure how

Java SE 6 64-bit
J2SE 5.0 64-bit
J2SE 5.0 32-bit
J2SE 1.4.2 32-bit

is particularly ambiguous :slight_smile:

And for the sake of discussion I use vi, jEdit and NetBeans for
Rails development, but do things like installing gems and running
console and server from the command line because it just works. :slight_smile:

FWIW,

43

Garry F. wrote:

I have Netbeans 6.7 on the Mac Os X platform and its quite an ordeal to get it to install gems without putting it in the wrong directory because it executes installation that requires installation using sudo and does not prompt for the password, so stuff gets installed in the wrong directory.

Yeah - these things like to do things in their own way, and rarely is
that “way” made transparent to us peons, especially us amateur peons.
Not helpful.

I agree, that for a beginner like me, it’s best to use the command line … I do not trust the choices Netbeans makes when creating a project, without asking me, and its rather confusing to search for the waldo I need to use every time I turn around.

So, I have been doing the Axe book stuff in command line because if the exercise doesn’t work, and I didn’t do exactly as told to do, there would be more of that nagging idea that I might not have done it right.

Yes - it’s about minimizing your problems BEFORE they appear. A favorite
tactic of mine.

Besides, knowing how to do it without the IDE, will come in handy in that day where the IDE gets upgraded with some nasty bug and you can’t use it, or when you do you don’t get the expected results.

Absolutely. Also, if you need to set up a work environment on another OS
or machine, the simpler your set-up the quicker you’ll be working, and
the less likely you’ll run itno idiosyncrasies with which you’re not
familiar.

Example:
[…] I had been trying to use jEdit as my editor but the Ruby Plugin it uses, was accidentally compiled with a later java than a lot of folks have on their machines.

Trying to find the correct java for this Mac is a nightmare
[…]

Sorry you’re having trouble with this. A shame. I truly appreciate this
editor, and the ruby plugin, while not necessary, is truly useful. I
can’t offer help, as I know nothing of Macs.

[…]

Lesson: The more complex tools you use to build a project, the more chances things will go wrong due to bugs in the tools.
[…]

Your conclusion is precisely what I was trying to express. And…beyond
tool bugs is the problem (as you point out) of complex tools modifying a
work environment in puzzling ways which simply add to the learning
burden.

Things really took off for me in Ruby when I started working from the
command line. I finally began to get a good a basic understanding of
some key matters. I even worked up to compiling from source. I thank
this list for giving the support I needed to get to this level of
(modest) achievement, but I set things up right for myself by keeping my
work environment simple.

I recommend the same tactic for other beginners.

Tom

–

Tom C., MS MA, LMHC - Private practice Psychotherapist
Bellingham, Washington, U.S.A: (360) 920-1226
<< [email protected] >> (email)
<< TomCloyd.com >> (website)
<< sleightmind.wordpress.com >> (mental health weblog)
44

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 7:35 PM, Garry F.[email protected]
wrote:

Well, take the last two lines J2SE 5.0 J2SE 1.4.2

How can there be two versions of the same program called J2SE??

How can there be two versions of the same program?

Uh, what?

Like, how can there be a “Mac OS 10.5.6” and a “Mac OS 10.5.7”?

How can there be a “Ruby 1.8.6” and “Ruby 1.8.7” and “Ruby 1.9.1”

OMFG!! DON’T CROSS THE STREAMS!!!

Seriously – “how can there be two versions of …”?? What??

45

Well, take the last two lines J2SE 5.0 J2SE 1.4.2

How can there be two versions of the same program called J2SE??

Yeah I like jEdit, except I can’t get the RubyPlugin to work on this mac
because I can’t find the right version of java to install - its compiled
with some Java thing that’s a later version than on my machine. . I look
at the sites and its like a guessing game of which is the real one I
need to install.

I could go installing willy nilly but I am afraid my guessing around is
going to break something else.

From: Hassan S. [email protected]
To: ruby-talk ML [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 6:20:39 PM
Subject: Re: ruby IDE’s

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 9:09 AM, Garry F.[email protected]
wrote:

Trying to find the correct java for this Mac is a nightmare, of confusion, nothing is clear, everything is ambiguous. I see stuff called J Something 5 that claims to install version 6 of j something and vice versa.

While not totally consistent naming-wise, I’m not sure how

Java SE 6 64-bit
J2SE 5.0 64-bit
J2SE 5.0 32-bit
J2SE 1.4.2 32-bit

is particularly ambiguous :slight_smile:

And for the sake of discussion I use vi, jEdit and NetBeans for
Rails development, but do things like installing gems and running
console and server from the command line because it just works. :slight_smile:

FWIW,

46

I am surprised to see sarcasm in this mailing list, or maybe I am just
disappointed.

I know there are multiple versions of ruby, handled storing things in
two different locations, I was simply asking for an explanation.

From: Hassan S. [email protected]
To: ruby-talk ML [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 8:22:57 PM
Subject: Re: ruby IDE’s

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 7:35 PM, Garry F.[email protected]
wrote:

Well, take the last two lines J2SE 5.0 J2SE 1.4.2

How can there be two versions of the same program called J2SE??

How can there be two versions of the same program?

Uh, what?

Like, how can there be a “Mac OS 10.5.6” and a “Mac OS 10.5.7”?

How can there be a “Ruby 1.8.6” and “Ruby 1.8.7” and “Ruby 1.9.1”

OMFG!! DON’T CROSS THE STREAMS!!!

Seriously – “how can there be two versions of …”?? What??

47

I know what ruby is. I don’t know what programs are included in the
nebulous mass of programs that come under J2SE heading.

Also I see things like J2 SDK, or J2 JDK, but I also see Java SDK, and
Java JDK.

With ruby, its all called ruby and it’s not so confusing, but if I saw a
set of programs under conglomerates Ruby and Ruby2, I would be left
wondering what version of which I should get for a particular purpose.

From: Hassan S. [email protected]
To: ruby-talk ML [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 8:36:46 PM
Subject: Re: ruby IDE’s

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 8:32 PM, Garry F.wrote: > I know there are
multiple versions of ruby, handled storing things in two different
locations, I was simply asking for an explanation. For why there are
multiple versions of Java on your system? How can that seem different
than multiple versions of Ruby? –
Hassan S. ------------------------ [email protected]
twitter: @hassan

48

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 8:32 PM, Garry F.[email protected]
wrote:

I know there are multiple versions of ruby, handled storing things in two different locations, I was simply asking for an explanation.

For why there are multiple versions of Java on your system?

How can that seem different than multiple versions of Ruby?

49

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 8:50 PM, Garry F.[email protected]
wrote:

With ruby, its all called ruby and it’s not so confusing, but if I saw a set of programs under conglomerates Ruby and Ruby2, I would be left wondering what version of which I should get for a particular purpose.

Would you? And so you wouldn’t put any effort into learning what
those differences were?

So you could make an informed choice?

Up to you, obviously. Best of luck. :slight_smile:

50

I guess I could break out a spreadsheet to make sense of it, or I could
continue my fruitless search to try to find some site that lists it all
… Or I could try to ask some folks here for a site that might show me
the differences and meanings …

“And so you wouldn’t put any effort into learning what those differences
were? So you could make an informed choice? Up to you, obviously”

I never said I have not tried to make some sense of it. Like one fellow
once corrected me many years ago for seeming to be making fun of others,
I now ask you. Why all the bastardization?

Example of what I am running into…

Java for Mac OS X 10.5 Update 2

Java for Mac OS X 10.5 Update 2 delivers improved reliability and
compatibility for Java SE 6, J2SE 5.0 and J2SE 1.4.2 on Mac OS X 10.5.4
and later. The release updates Java SE 6 to version 1.6.0_07, J2SE 5.0
to version 1.5.0_16, and J2SE 1.4.2 to 1.4.2_18. The update is available
through Software Update and the Apple Support website.

The parts in bold seem contradictory. When I read things like Updates
J2SE 5.0 to version 1.5.0_16 it seems like more of a downgrade to me.
Going from 5.0 to version 1.50_16 WTH?!!"

From: Hassan S. [email protected]
To: ruby-talk ML [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:10:17 PM
Subject: Re: ruby IDE’s

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 8:50 PM, Garry F.wrote: > With ruby, its
all called ruby and it’s not so confusing, but if I saw a set of
programs under conglomerates Ruby and Ruby2, I would be left wondering
what version of which I should get for a particular purpose. Would you?
And so you wouldn’t put any effort into learning what
those differences were? So you could make an informed choice? Up to you,
obviously. Best of luck. :slight_smile: –
Hassan S. ------------------------ [email protected]
twitter: @hassan

51

Garry,

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 9:24 PM, Garry F.
[email protected]wrote:

…

Example of what I am running into…

Java for Mac OS X 10.5 Update 2

Java for Mac OS X 10.5 Update 2 delivers improved reliability and
compatibility for Java SE 6, J2SE 5.0 and J2SE 1.4.2 on Mac OS X 10.5.4 and
later. The release updates Java SE 6 to version 1.6.0_07, J2SE 5.0 to
version 1.5.0_16, and J2SE 1.4.2 to 1.4.2_18. The update is available
through Software Update and the Apple Support website.

The parts in bold seem contradictory. When I read things like Updates J2SE
5.0 to version 1.5.0_16 it seems like more of a downgrade to me. Going from
5.0 to version 1.50_16 WTH?!!"

I am far from any type of expert in Java - but to clear up your
confusion -
Java “X” is the 1.“X”.xx family - in other words Java 6 is the 1.6.xx
family, Java 5 is 1.5.xx and Java 4 is 1.4.xx

John

52

Oh nice! That clears up a lot. Strangely I found what I needed, it was
an update from apple to upgrade J2SE 6, and install J2SE 1.6, but
strangely in the java preferences app, it still lists the ancient 1.4.xx
version and doesn’t list the 1.6.xx version. So strange. I think I might
try to see why its not showing up. I had installed it yesterday, and its
still not showing and I know I rebooted just in case.

Anyway thanks that helps a lot. :slight_smile:

From: John W Higgins [email protected]
To: ruby-talk ML [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:32:28 PM
Subject: Re: ruby IDE’s

Garry, On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 9:24 PM, Garry F. wrote: …
Example of what I am running into…

5.0 to version 1.5.0_16 it seems like more of a downgrade to me. Going from
5.0 to version 1.50_16 WTH?!!"
I am far from any type of expert in Java - but to clear up your confusion -
Java “X” is the 1.“X”.xx family - in other words Java 6 is the 1.6.xx
family, Java 5 is 1.5.xx and Java 4 is 1.4.xx John

53

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Hassan
Schroeder[email protected] wrote:

Well, I think I’ll try and inject some help into this mounting flame
war. It’s sometimes best to go to the source to figure this stuff
out. In this case, since Sun doesn’t release sdks for Macs, you’ll
need to do a little research (but not too much). Previously, to get
a jdk compatible with 1.6 proper on mac os X 10.5, you’d have to do
some hacking around. Here are some helpful links:

Historical:

Recent information:
http://support.apple.com/downloads/Java_for_Mac_OS_X_10_5_Update_4

And to add my two cents to this IDE discussion, I think a person new
to the Ruby language should consider using a text editor like emacs/vi
at first and then see what other things are out there. Personally, I
prefer using Eclipse or Netbeans on *nix and have used some really
nice commercial plug-ins with Visual Studio on widows that are also
pretty great, taking full advantage of intellisense.

It’s important to use something like emacs or vi at first because it
gives you an idea of what could be improved upon (and emacs is super
customizable; there are some great tutorials on setting it up for Ruby
developmen,t totally worth researching). As you become more
proficient and become involved in software development projects that
encompass many developers, you might see more IDEs or more powerful
editors in use (depending on the company you’re working for).

There are lots of reasons for this many of which have to do with
adding unit test coverage, supporting development environments, etc.
that you can obviously do very easily in many different tools (which
is great about software development in general), but IDEs can make
this a one stop shop where you can do all these things which is very
appealing to developers when working on a large software project.

p.s. regarding java versioning, you should look at this link:

Good luck!

54

Garry F. wrote:

I am surprised to see sarcasm in this mailing list, or maybe I am just disappointed.

A person’s tone of voice does not come through in text, so humor can
easily be misinterpreted.

Better to assume the best, at least at first.

That’s not to say people here aren’t sometimes snarky, just that it may
not always be when you think it is.

–
James B.

www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys
www.ruby-doc.org - Ruby Help & Documentation
www.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
www.neurogami.com - Smart application development

55

Its ironic, I can make jokes, I am always joking, but seem to be the
last to note the humor. If I am wrong, I apologize to the fella.

The deal about text not carrying across tone reminds me of the saying
“Text is for kids” a spinoff of the old commercial about the rabbit
trying to get a taste of Kix cereal - it would always say “Silly
rabbit!, Kix is for kids!”

From: James B. [email protected]
To: ruby-talk ML [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:11:54 PM
Subject: Re: ruby IDE’s

Garry F. wrote:

I am surprised to see sarcasm in this mailing list, or maybe I am just disappointed.

A person’s tone of voice does not come through in text, so humor can
easily be misinterpreted.

Better to assume the best, at least at first.

That’s not to say people here aren’t sometimes snarky, just that it may
not always be when you think it is.

– James B.

www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys
www.ruby-doc.org - Ruby Help & Documentation
www.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
www.neurogami.com - Smart application development

56

Garry F. wrote:

Java for Mac OS X 10.5 Update 2 delivers improved reliability and compatibility for Java SE 6, J2SE 5.0 and J2SE 1.4.2 on Mac OS X 10.5.4 and later. The release updates Java SE 6 to version 1.6.0_07, J2SE 5.0 to version 1.5.0_16, and J2SE 1.4.2 to 1.4.2_18. The update is available through Software Update and the Apple Support website.

The parts in bold seem contradictory. When I read things like Updates J2SE 5.0 to version 1.5.0_16 it seems like more of a downgrade to me. Going from 5.0 to version 1.50_16 WTH?!!"

I recently learned that my Mac Mini included several versions of Java.
By default it runs some version of Java 5.

I tried to run the Glassfish gem, got an error about how the gem
required Java 6, and did the most reasonable thing I could think of:
bitch about Apple on Twitter.

A minute later a friend replied with instructions on how to select among
the different Java’s available. Happiness!

The different versions are for 32- and 64-bit Java 5 and 6 (though Java
6 is only available for 64-bit OS X)

So, an upgrading of the installed Javas could very well involve
multiple, seemingly incompatible, versions.

–
James B.

www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys
www.ruby-doc.org - Ruby Help & Documentation
www.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
www.neurogami.com - Smart application development

57

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 9:46 PM, Phil R.[email protected] wrote:

… this mounting flame war.

I think you misspelled “educational dialog’”.

Just sayin’ :slight_smile:

58

Hmm, I’ve in the past shied away from vi, emacs because the key commands
were so far different than what I was used to, but so many recommend
these two and then I saw this tutorial on emacs just now in response to
your recommendation and the neat things it can do, I figured, I better
bite the bullet.

I got aquamacs emacs and its nice and easy to read with my poor vision
and its highlighting of this ruby controller file indicates it
understands ruby. It also understands these erb files without being told
to interpret it as html.

Thanks! I think you got me started, on something I probably should have
started using ages ago.

From: Phil R. [email protected]
To: ruby-talk ML [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:46:59 PM
Subject: Re: ruby IDE’s

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Hassan
Schroeder[email protected] wrote:

Well, I think I’ll try and inject some help into this mounting flame
war. It’s sometimes best to go to the source to figure this stuff
out. In this case, since Sun doesn’t release sdks for Macs, you’ll
need to do a little research (but not too much). Previously, to get
a jdk compatible with 1.6 proper on mac os X 10.5, you’d have to do
some hacking around. Here are some helpful links:

Historical:
http://blog.adsdevshop.com/2008/02/26/installing-the-jdk-16-on-mac-os-x/
Recent information:
http://support.apple.com/downloads/Java_for_Mac_OS_X_10_5_Update_4

And to add my two cents to this IDE discussion, I think a person new
to the Ruby language should consider using a text editor like emacs/vi
at first and then see what other things are out there. Personally, I
prefer using Eclipse or Netbeans on *nix and have used some really
nice commercial plug-ins with Visual Studio on widows that are also
pretty great, taking full advantage of intellisense.

It’s important to use something like emacs or vi at first because it
gives you an idea of what could be improved upon (and emacs is super
customizable; there are some great tutorials on setting it up for Ruby
developmen,t totally worth researching). As you become more
proficient and become involved in software development projects that
encompass many developers, you might see more IDEs or more powerful
editors in use (depending on the company you’re working for).

There are lots of reasons for this many of which have to do with
adding unit test coverage, supporting development environments, etc.
that you can obviously do very easily in many different tools (which
is great about software development in general), but IDEs can make
this a one stop shop where you can do all these things which is very
appealing to developers when working on a large software project.

p.s. regarding java versioning, you should look at this link:

Good luck!

59

Hassan S. wrote:

Oh man. You just gotta love this humor judo. Wow. Kudos to you, sir.

t.

–

Tom C., MS MA, LMHC - Private practice Psychotherapist
Bellingham, Washington, U.S.A: (360) 920-1226
<< [email protected] >> (email)
<< TomCloyd.com >> (website)
<< sleightmind.wordpress.com >> (mental health weblog)
60

On Jul 22, 1:19 am, Garry F. [email protected] wrote:

Subject: Re: ruby IDE’s
– James B.

www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toyswww.ruby-doc.org - Ruby Help & Documentationwww.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuffwww.neurogami.com - Smart application development

Uh, it’s TRIX are for kids. Kix is “kid tested, mother approved.”
Just to set the record straight :-)~