Ruby IDE's

Rohit C. wrote:

Best would be Netbeans or Eclipse , no doubt .
But both are so slow on my recently bought machine ( Intel Core 2 Duo ,
nVidia 9600 1 GB , 4 GB RAM , Windows Vista ) thats its of no practical
use .

NetBeans on my Kubuntu laptop (Intel Core 2 Duo, 3 GB RAM) is quite
peppy. Have not found it to be buggy at all. Extremely useful.

That said, I prefer gvim for day-to-day coding. I use NetBeans for the
UI editor when hacking on JRuby desktop apps. But I know a few folks
who use quite regularly (on Macs)

If it’s important to have an “IDE” (as opposed to a code editor),
NetBeans is a really good option.


James B.

www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys
www.ruby-doc.org - Ruby Help & Documentation
www.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
www.neurogami.com - Smart application development

Mark T wrote:

A most effective facility I have found is to be able to edit vertically.

tabs -> Spaces, indent.

jedit.org.

Absolutely. I use this facility in the jEdit editor all the time.
Couldn’t live without it.

All you need is jEdit plus the RubyPlugin and you’ll be sitting at a
very powerful console. I use jEdit far more than I use my word processor
or spreadsheet - I can’t say enough good things about this editor. I’ve
looked at a great many others, and have never found even a close
competitor. It’s my #1 must-have tool, for Ruby and many other things.

t.

Tom C., MS MA, LMHC - Private practice Psychotherapist
Bellingham, Washington, U.S.A: (360) 920-1226
<< [email protected] >> (email)
<< TomCloyd.com >> (website)
<< sleightmind.wordpress.com >> (mental health weblog)

With the latest, I think its 4.3.17pre, It loads up and then the loading
bar at the bottom gets to “Run startup script” and hangs there forever.

I tried the irc channel, I tried different builds Nobody can solve it,
nobody even has an idea what is wrong.

I spent literally seven hours trying to get JEdit past this problem on
my Mac Os X machine without any success at all.

I tried the os x specific one, I tried the platform independent one.

I asked on the ruby on rails and ruby language ircs too. I have the
pre-requisites, but it seems I am doomed to suffer this issue that
nobody seems to be experiencing without letup, while everyone else
installs it and has it ring without a single hitch. Google send me a
message “Give it up” when last I tried to find the answer.


From: Tom C. [email protected]
To: ruby-talk ML [email protected]
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 8:07:11 AM
Subject: Re: ruby IDE’s

Well, the question of editors is entirely different from that of IDEs.
One can employ a good editor (I use jEdit, and it’s excellent -also
platform independent) without all the front end nonsense of an IDE.
Admittedly, however, for some people an IDE may seem a good idea. But
what does it really do for you? A good editor plus IDE plus a decent
testing tool puts you in business with the lowest possible overhead. Why
not go that direction? Simple, direct, and fast. No nonsense.

t.

Rohit C. wrote:

They are , as someone will argue meant for Enterprise Projects or some
shit like that . So leave them for them and go for UltraEdit ( UEStudio
) . It integrates seamlessly with Tortoise SVN , FTP and SSH is built-in
. Loads fast . Has Syntax Highlighting for Ruby , HTMl , Javascript etc
.

Woah! I run Netbeans on this here 2Gb, 1.6GHz Intel M (or something like
that - it’s six years old) and it’s fine. Any bottlenecks are caused by
the hd. This is on Ubuntu, but I was running it dual boot until a few
months ago and nb was fine under XP.

Along with nb, I’m simultaneously running all the usual candidates:
apache, mongrel cluster, mysql, postfix, dovecot, email, firefox, etc.

On my 4Gb dual core, it’s snappier, of course, but it’s fine on the ol’
laptop.


Best,
Marc

“Change requires small steps.”

Tom C. wrote:

seeing what you’re really doing.
No they don’t!

If anything, they enhance your understanding. Once you know how to drive
the things, they offer you a ton of functionality that is far harder to
accomplish via the CLI.

I use the CLI too, and I’m a big user of gvim, but for project work,
it’s simply nuts not to use an IDE.

I’m an absolute amateur with Ruby, and always will be, I now run from
the command line, and use the ruby-debug gem (not yet available in ruby
1.9), and am completely pleased with what I can do. I would never go
back to an IDE. I simply don’t see any advantage at all.

Might I suggest that when you have a lot more experience, and spend more
time coding, then the advantages will become very clear.


Best,
Marc

“Change requires small steps.”

Well, the question of editors is entirely different from that of IDEs.
One can employ a good editor (I use jEdit, and it’s excellent -also
platform independent) without all the front end nonsense of an IDE.
Admittedly, however, for some people an IDE may seem a good idea. But
what does it really do for you? A good editor plus IDE plus a decent
testing tool puts you in business with the lowest possible overhead. Why
not go that direction? Simple, direct, and fast. No nonsense.

t.

Rilindo F. wrote:

Tom C., MS MA, LMHC - Private practice Psychotherapist
Bellingham, Washington, U.S.A: (360) 920-1226
<< [email protected] >> (email)
<< TomCloyd.com >> (website)
<< sleightmind.wordpress.com >> (mental health weblog)

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Tom C.[email protected] wrote:

Well, the question of editors is entirely different from that of IDEs. One
can employ a good editor (I use jEdit, and it’s excellent -also platform
independent) without all the front end nonsense of an IDE. Admittedly,
however, for some people an IDE may seem a good idea. But what does it
really do for you?

I use editor + console. I don’t launch irb sessions inside IDEs, nor
do I launch servers or execute rake tasks.

But RubyMine for example gives you an editor which is just richer. It
tells you that your code is well/bad formed on the fly, it allows you
to do some refactors robustly, it understands Rails refactors, like
the implications in the file system of refactoring a controller.
Code-completion and jumping to definitions works very decently, open
type, etc. The list of features like this is long. Of course you have
all the goodies in other editors, moving around.

So it is not a matter of IDE versus TM, say, you can use RubyMine just
because of the editor and project management, and still have your
consoles around.

Oh BTW RubyMine is by far my preferred IDE for Ruby/Rails development.

So it is not a matter of IDE versus TM, say, you can use RubyMine just
because of the editor and project management, and still have your
consoles around.

You could also use Netbeans and still “have your consoles around”.

How exactly does RubyMine relate to IntelliJ IDEA? Is it an
independent product? Or is it more like IntelliJ IDEA + Ruby plugin -
everything else?

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 6:43 PM, lith[email protected] wrote:

So it is not a matter of IDE versus TM, say, you can use RubyMine just
because of the editor and project management, and still have your
consoles around.

You could also use Netbeans and still “have your consoles around”.

Sure, the editor of your preferred IDE would do for this use pattern.

How exactly does RubyMine relate to IntelliJ IDEA? Is it an
independent product? Or is it more like IntelliJ IDEA + Ruby plugin -
everything else?

It’s been ages since I used IntelliJ. I am almost certain RubyMine is
an independent product that shares the undelying IDE engine somehow. I
guess it does because the first versions are rich in IntelliJ non-Java
specific features already.

In my opinion they are going to do for Ruby/Rails what they did for
Java, come to the market with a winner. (Hey just an opinion, no
relationship with them).

Also, there are free licenses for using RubyMine for open source
developers, I didn’t need to purchase a license.

The person he replied to said himself that he didn’t have much
experience. It didn’t look like a personal attack to me when he’s
quoting the guy.


From: James B. [email protected]
To: ruby-talk ML [email protected]
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 10:10:53 AM
Subject: Re: ruby IDE’s

marc wrote:

Might I suggest that when you have a lot more experience, and spend more
time coding, then the advantages will become very clear.

Please avoid personal attacks.

Disagreement with your preferences != lack of experience, and it’s rude
to suggest it.

Thanks,

– James B.

www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys
www.ruby-doc.org - Ruby Help & Documentation
www.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
www.neurogami.com - Smart application development

On 7/20/09, marc [email protected] wrote:

Tom C. wrote:

I use the CLI too, and I’m a big user of gvim, but for project work,
it’s simply nuts not to use an IDE.
Well I am nuts then, but that’s a well known fact anyway;).
However I do not want to argue that IDEs do not have their merits, but
maybe it is worth mentioning that we are hinting a beginner who wants
to learn Ruby.

I’m an absolute amateur with Ruby, and always will be, I now run from
the command line, and use the ruby-debug gem (not yet available in ruby
1.9), and am completely pleased with what I can do. I would never go
back to an IDE. I simply don’t see any advantage at all.

Might I suggest that when you have a lot more experience, and spend more
time coding, then the advantages will become very clear.
So clear that you are assuming we know them?

Cheers Robert

Toutes les grandes personnes ont d’abord été des enfants, mais peu
d’entre elles s’en souviennent.

All adults have been children first, but not many remember.

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 7:32 PM, Robert D.[email protected]
wrote:

However I do not want to argue that IDEs do not have their merits, but
maybe it is worth mentioning that we are hinting a beginner who wants
to learn Ruby.

I agree with that.

In my view when you learn a technology you better be close the metal.
I’ve known Java web developers that don’t understand what’s going on
because they have started directly with the metaphors a framework
gives on top of HTTP. I recommend them to pick a book on bare CGI
programming, nothing like that let’s you see how naked web programming
is, and once you know what’s going on then you are productive and
know what you are doing with a framework.

Similarly, IDEs understood as something you live in hide what’s going
on. And that includes the emacs guy that does everything in emacs,
runs irb in emacs, runs the test suite in emacs, runs migrations in
emacs, etc. That is an IDE in my definition of IDE.

To someone who is learning I would recommend to use a simple editor
that does syntax highlighting, and is free, like Smultron or Crimson
editor, and understand the command line and environment which is
natural to your programming language, in addition to PATH, RUBYLIB,
what is a shebang in Unix, etc. I’ve been teaching Perl in the
university for a few years and that’s the way I do it. Once you know
the basics, then you can jump to use a tool that let’s you manage all
that stuff in a proficient way. But then you are driving, you are in
control, instead of having a bunch of fuzzy concepts that somehow work
together.

marc wrote:

Might I suggest that when you have a lot more experience, and spend more
time coding, then the advantages will become very clear.

Please avoid personal attacks.

Disagreement with your preferences != lack of experience, and it’s rude
to suggest it.

Thanks,


James B.

www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys
www.ruby-doc.org - Ruby Help & Documentation
www.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
www.neurogami.com - Smart application development

Robert D. wrote:

On 7/20/09, marc [email protected] wrote:

Tom C. wrote:

However I do not want to argue that IDEs do not have their merits, but
maybe it is worth mentioning that we are hinting a beginner who wants
to learn Ruby.

I belive that the hinting that something like netbeans gives you is a
huge benefit to beginners; as well as the inbuilt testing. I could go
on. There are a lot of benefits to a beginner to using an IDE.

I’d certainly recommend Netbeans over gvim or emacs!

I’m an absolute amateur with Ruby, and always will be, I now run from
the command line, and use the ruby-debug gem (not yet available in ruby
1.9), and am completely pleased with what I can do. I would never go
back to an IDE. I simply don’t see any advantage at all.

Might I suggest that when you have a lot more experience, and spend more
time coding, then the advantages will become very clear.

So clear that you are assuming we know them?

I assumed nothing, and I have no idea how you incorrectly inferred that.


Best,
Marc

“Change requires small steps.”

James B. wrote:

Thanks,

He stated that he was inexperienced - he used the term “absolute
amateur” - so I suggested - note the use of the word - that with a bit
more experience he might further his knowledge. There was no ad
hominem in what I said, unlike what you just wrote; but I’ll put that
down to a lack of experience too.


Best,
Marc

“Change requires small steps.”

On 7/20/09, marc [email protected] wrote:

Might I suggest that when you have a lot more experience, and spend more
time coding, then the advantages will become very clear.

So clear that you are assuming we know them?

I assumed nothing, and I have no idea how you incorrectly inferred that.

I just meant, please tell us the advantages that become clear!

Sorry if I was not clear.
Robert


Toutes les grandes personnes ont d’abord été des enfants, mais peu
d’entre elles s’en souviennent.

All adults have been children first, but not many remember.

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

marc wrote:

He stated that he was inexperienced - he used the term “absolute
amateur” - so I suggested - note the use of the word - that with a bit
more experience he might further his knowledge. There was no ad
hominem in what I said, unlike what you just wrote; but I’ll put that
down to a lack of experience too.

I’m sorry you choose to spin my mistake as an ad hominem against you.

And sorry you prefer to toss in a pointless comment before reading what
I had to say.

Thanks anyway; I learned something quite useful here, though not about
IDEs.

Chalk it up to experience.


James B.

www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys
www.ruby-doc.org - Ruby Help & Documentation
www.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
www.neurogami.com - Smart application development

Tom C. wrote:

James, I’m a big fan of yours, but I’m also keenly aware of poorly
constructed arguments (e.g., ad hominem it bastard brothers). I think I
have to agree with Marc here. I think he was making a legitimate
proposition - in form if not in substance. He may be right, but I cannot
confirm it. And I don’t see any hint of ad hominem here. We DO see
things through the lense of our experience. We have little choice.

I read too quickly and missed that the OP expressed inexperience. So I
was wrong in assessing the intent of the response, and wrong in my
reply. Mea culpa.

However, absent that bit of info, it is generally insulting to suggest
to someone that their particular opinion is due to a lack a experience
(as opposed to criticism the opinion directly). The “you would think
different if you weren’t so inexperienced” line is a common way to knock
down a person rather than the opinion expressed. If nothing else, it’s
cheap and dismissive.

Oddly enough, though, I usually see this particular argument going the
other way; people asserting that IDE’s are a beginner’s crutch, and that
with enough experience people will eventually come around to the One
True Way of Coding.

I don’t find that any more persuasive, and generally don’t see a
connection between experience and IDE preference. It just happens to be
the case with me that more experience has lead me further away from
IDE’s, but I know smart, skilled people who are just the opposite.

I will say, however, that after working with a number of IDE’s, and
rather enjoying them for their “gee whiz” appeal - all those tools, and
such - retreating from the disaster that Aptana was for a while to mere
jEdit and the CLI was a breath of fresh air for me. I felt, and still
feel, MUCH more directly engaged, and I’ve gotten a ton of work done
with these tools.

That sounds like my experience as well, preferring multiple consoles,
screen, gvim, tabs, etc. to some monolithic IDE. But certain projects
and languages beg for an IDE (many large Java projects would have been
hell without NetBeans or Eclipse).

I strongly believe in keeping things as simple as possible. And I should
also mention that while I’ve designed and run a number of websites, I do
not use Rails and am not likely to. I can see how with Rails something
like Aptana or Netbeans might be peachy. Netbeans might be terrific also
if one was using jruby, which certainly does have some nice
features…but not for me.

NetBeans has some sweet refactoring tools, and can’t be beat for the GUI
editor, but when I use it I use it in conjunction with gvim so as to not
slow down my basic editing.

Gotta fit the tools to the guy, and his needs, I suspect.

No doubt.


James B.

www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys
www.ruby-doc.org - Ruby Help & Documentation
www.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
www.neurogami.com - Smart application development

marc wrote:

Please avoid personal attacks.
hominem in what I said, unlike what you just wrote; but I’ll put that
down to a lack of experience too.

James, I’m a big fan of yours, but I’m also keenly aware of poorly
constructed arguments (e.g., ad hominem it bastard brothers). I think I
have to agree with Marc here. I think he was making a legitimate
proposition - in form if not in substance. He may be right, but I cannot
confirm it. And I don’t see any hint of ad hominem here. We DO see
things through the lense of our experience. We have little choice.

I will say, however, that after working with a number of IDE’s, and
rather enjoying them for their “gee whiz” appeal - all those tools, and
such - retreating from the disaster that Aptana was for a while to mere
jEdit and the CLI was a breath of fresh air for me. I felt, and still
feel, MUCH more directly engaged, and I’ve gotten a ton of work done
with these tools.

I strongly believe in keeping things as simple as possible. And I should
also mention that while I’ve designed and run a number of websites, I do
not use Rails and am not likely to. I can see how with Rails something
like Aptana or Netbeans might be peachy. Netbeans might be terrific also
if one was using jruby, which certainly does have some nice
features…but not for me.

Gotta fit the tools to the guy, and his needs, I suspect.

I just don’t have time to let things get to complex, and that
undoubtedly drives my preferences.

And I still think beginners should learn to run things without an IDE,
then migrate to that more complex world if it makes sense.

Tom

Tom C., MS MA, LMHC - Private practice Psychotherapist
Bellingham, Washington, U.S.A: (360) 920-1226
<< [email protected] >> (email)
<< TomCloyd.com >> (website)
<< sleightmind.wordpress.com >> (mental health weblog)

On 7/20/09, Tom C. [email protected] wrote:

James, I’m a big fan of yours, but I’m also keenly aware of poorly
constructed arguments (e.g., ad hominem it bastard brothers). I think I
have to agree with Marc here. I think he was making a legitimate
proposition - in form if not in substance. He may be right, but I cannot
confirm it.
Nor can he (or nor does he want ) It is easy to tell phrases like
“experience will show [you]”
but there is no useful information at all. So I asked him twice to
provide some…
Your advice however was sound in the way that you clearly stated why a
sophisticated IDE might be harmful for a beginner (Xavier elaborated
nicely).

Given that, poor OP is reading a plethora of posts indicating cool
IDEs and it will be difficult and time consuming for him to chose.

Cheers
Robert

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