MIDASWAD - Matz is Dumb and so We are Dumb

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 3:22 PM, Chad P. [email protected] wrote:

Frankly, if everyone had left it at Ilias’ first post and the necessary
statement that we shouldn’t feed the troll, life would be grand right
now.

As it is, however, even the expressions of support for the “please don’t
feed the troll” warning have served to undermine it, and we’re right back
where we were with the require_relative thread. I give up.

I learned something today. People will go out of their way to comment
on things that have no bearing on their day to day, and may even have
been of use to someone. You know what, though? They won’t go so far as
to offer the help to the individual who needed it, in the manner that
it should have been given.

I have wronged you and provoked the anger of our peers, and I would
like to apologize. I don’t know how you feel about my comment. I hope
we can be buddies, you know? Your silence speaks to me, though, and I
feel ashamed.

I am sorry. I don’t know much about you, but please allow me to say
that you are clearly a wonderful, intellectual person with much to
offer the world.

Now, If I may, I would like to tell you how to cook an egg, when it
has been encapsulated by a pepper. I would like to preface this by
informing you that, were you to elect to cook it without the pepper,
the cooking of the egg is much the same. Were you to replace the
pepper with, perhaps, an onion ring, it is delicious. However, if you
don’t like onions, I understand.

First, heat the pan so that when you place water on it, it sizzles
slightly, but not so much that it evaporates faster than you can count
to seven. Place a small amount of butter in the centre of the pan. You
can use margarine, or even olive oil if you want, but the centre of
the pan is the best place for an even heat. Once greased, place the
ring of vegetable on the pan. Me, I like my peppers to be cooked. I’m
not a fan of raw peppers, so I get it a bit brown on the bottom, then
flip it over. This allows both sides to be just the way I like. This
is of course to taste, so again, I leave that to you. Once it has been
flipped, that’s when you want to place the egg in the middle. If you
did not flip, or if you like raw peppers, you can just go straight to
putting the egg in there.

Now, the egg itself only takes maybe two minutes to get to a heat
where it would be safely rid of salmonella. I’m not a chef or a
biologist, this is just what I’ve been told, and my parents enjoy
runny eggs so I let it go. Do you have parents that like things you
don’t? I hear that’s common. But I digress. I like to cook it closer
to six, some times five minutes. I just realised that the first link I
provided listed four minutes, which for me is just not doneenough. I
don’t like that little bit of wet around the yolk. In fact, I normally
break the yolk just so that doesn’t happen. You can do this too, if
you’d like.

Now, while it is cooking and still soft, this is when I like to add
some broken black pepper, garlic powder, onion powder (keep in mind,
that if you’ve replaced the pepper ring with an onion, the onion
powder is optional.), and salt. I really enjoy garlic, so I put a good
bit in there. I cannot provide you measurements, as I have those
shaker things you can buy pretty well anywhere, and I just keep going
until I think “Yes, that should be enough”. The same goes for the
onion powder and black pepper. Perhaps I should also mention that I
use a pepper grinder to to get my black pepper in there. In case you
have not done it, I would suggest against eating a whole black pepper
seed. I think they are seeds, I am not a botanist.

Once it is done cooking, I lather it in vinegar. My family finds this
repulsive, but I have noticed that the pepper ring gives the vinegar a
nice “cup” to sit in, and really soak in. I also add more salt. I’m
not a healthy eater, Bunsin Honey Dew, so I would suggest against
adding as much salt as I do. I won’t tell you how much I add, just to
stave off that possibility. Now that I think about it, by not telling
you how much I have added, that may commit you to curiosity. I add
about four shakes from a table salt shaker. This is on top of the
other two shakes I added while cooking.

I am deeply sorry for my presumptuous grasp at buddy-dom previously,
and more so for the possible insult suffered by linking to you
directions for frying an egg. This was wrong of me, and I hope this
finds you before you make your attempt, and thus comes to some use.

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 23:52, David M. [email protected] wrote:

Anyone who believes Ilias should be given the benefit of the doubt, and that
the “list police” (just concerned users, really)

It seems to me that the members of this mailing list that tend to
answer Ilias are the same members that tend to act list police.

Perhaps they should heed their own and each other’s warnings instead
of repeatedly telling everyone else what to do?

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 23:08, Sam D. [email protected] wrote:

Five posts in on this thread, and four of them are the self appointed list
police saying don’t post in this thread. Ilias vs Lord of the Flies.

I agree. I’d much rather read another one of Ilias tirades than
another “please don’t feed the troll” post.

Actually this is a good thread, I was fully expecting Ilias to take
weeks to get to this point (based on his past behaviour) which would
have filled the mailing list with so much noise. There may be 100s of
millions of people on the internet but the number of people on
programming language newsgroups and mailing lists is much more
limited. You do keep running into the same people time and time again,
something Ilias seems to forget or not care about.

He seems to have fallen apart rather abruptly, wonder what might have
happened in real life?

You ought to see what Arthur T Murray is up to these days. O_o

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 13:37, Adam P. [email protected] wrote:

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Nikolai W. [email protected] wrote:

It seems to me that the members of this mailing list that tend to
answer Ilias are the same members that tend to act list police.

Perhaps they should heed their own and each other’s warnings instead
of repeatedly telling everyone else what to do?

I’d view it as more of a “dear god, can we not have another
relative_require.” It’s a request, really, not a demand.

Here are the statistics of the require_relative thread (name, number
of messages):

Ilias L., 48
Phillip G., 15
David M., 12
Chad P., 10
Intransition, 6
Matt H., 6
Mike M., 5
Adam P., 4
Matthew K Williams, 4
Salk Pugh-Pitt, 4
A. Stroh Turph, 3
John W Higgins, 3
Michael E., 3
Ryan D., 3
Gary W., 2
Iñaki Baz C., 2
Jason R., 2
Sam D., 2
Steve K., 2
Tony Archieri, 2
Christopher D., 1
Florian G., 1
Joe Peri, 1
Josh C., 1
Kane W., 1
KlausG, 1
Luc H., 1
Mike B., 1
Petite A., 1
Rob B., 1
Stu, 1
Ted H., 1
Yukihiro M., 1

The top two posters, skipping you and Ilias himself, are the two that
posted warnings in this thread. The poster who re-quoted one of the
warnings is in the top ten.

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Nikolai W. [email protected] wrote:

It seems to me that the members of this mailing list that tend to
answer Ilias are the same members that tend to act list police.

Perhaps they should heed their own and each other’s warnings instead
of repeatedly telling everyone else what to do?

I’d view it as more of a “dear god, can we not have another
relative_require.” It’s a request, really, not a demand.

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Nikolai W. [email protected] wrote:

Here are the statistics of the require_relative thread (name, number
of messages):

[list]

The top two posters, skipping you and Ilias himself, are the two that
posted warnings in this thread. The poster who re-quoted one of the
warnings is in the top ten.

What point are you making? This says nothing of the content of the
length of the posts. The sum of all non-Ilias posts from your list is,
by my count, 103. So?

Are you saying that the top 10 on that list should stop being
hypocritical and not post on this one? If so, the goal as I see it is
to not have responses to the opening post by Ilias which cause the
type of endless back-and-forth discussion that Ilias threads seem so
prone to, with rude behaviour. Unless of course you think that won’t
happen; I’m not sure how you could, considering the opening subject of
this thread. Posting to say “this is not worth your time” is not the
same as taking part in a discussion based around a fictional project
manager and a 7-character restriction. You have been following the
threads, right?

On Jun 21, 2011, at 7:39 AM, Nikolai W. wrote:

Here are the statistics of the require_relative thread (name, number
of messages):
[snip list of names]

I checked back in my ruby-talk archives to see what happened the last
time Ilias popped in here (2005, briefly in early 2006, and lastly in
2008). Many of the top 10 names participated in his threads from 2005
(including you) and 2006. In 2008 he wasn’t here long enough to attract
much attention.

I would hope that all of these people would remember the last few times
Lazaridis joined ruby-talk. I’d also hope that they would know better
and just not participate in his threads at all. But they can’t help
themselves either (including you).

I fully expect this thread will go another few dozen replies and yet
none but a few will see the irony. If I were Lazaridis, I’d be laughing
my fool head off (and he probably is).

cr

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 14:51, Adam P. [email protected] wrote:

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Nikolai W. [email protected] wrote:

Here are the statistics of the require_relative thread (name, number
of messages):

[list]

The top two posters, skipping you and Ilias himself, are the two that
posted warnings in this thread. The poster who re-quoted one of the
warnings is in the top ten.

Are you saying that the top 10 on that list should stop being
hypocritical and not post on this one? If so, the goal as I see it is
to not have responses to the opening post by Ilias which cause the
type of endless back-and-forth discussion that Ilias threads seem so
prone to, with rude behaviour. Unless of course you think that won’t
happen; I’m not sure how you could, considering the opening subject of
this thread. Posting to say “this is not worth your time” is not the
same as taking part in a discussion based around a fictional project
manager and a 7-character restriction. You have been following the
threads, right?

My point is that it’s not up to others to decide what I, or anyone
else, deem worthy of discussion. It seems that most posters on this
list have managed to stay clear of most of what Ilias has been posting
about. Some have, as the list showed, engaged him and it’s mildly
annoying when some of those posters then tell everyone else to steer
clear of him.

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Nikolai W. [email protected] wrote:

My point is that it’s not up to others to decide what I, or anyone
else, deem worthy of discussion. It seems that most posters on this
list have managed to stay clear of most of what Ilias has been posting
about. Some have, as the list showed, engaged him and it’s mildly
annoying when some of those posters then tell everyone else to steer
clear of him.

I appreciate what you’re driving at, but a request to not feed the
troll is not making your decision for you, it’s basically a
suggestion. Obviously nobody has control over what you do. Second, I
would think the people who have engaged him certainly have an idea of
where the thread might lead!

I shall stop adding to posts in this thread, as people have suggested.
Feel free to join me!

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 15:07, Chuck R. [email protected]
wrote:

On Jun 21, 2011, at 7:39 AM, Nikolai W. wrote:

Here are the statistics of the require_relative thread (name, number
of messages):
[snip list of names]

I checked back in my ruby-talk archives to see what happened the last time Ilias
popped in here (2005, briefly in early 2006, and lastly in 2008). Many of the top
10 names participated in his threads from 2005 (including you) and 2006. In 2008
he wasn’t here long enough to attract much attention.

I would hope that all of these people would remember the last few times
Lazaridis joined ruby-talk. I’d also hope that they would know better and just
not participate in his threads at all. But they can’t help themselves either
(including you).

(And, by that logic, including you as well.)

I haven’t responded to Ilias once this time around. Had he posted
something that I felt warranted a response, I would have responded,
though.

On Tuesday, June 21, 2011 09:00:43 AM Nikolai W. wrote:

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 14:51, Adam P. [email protected] wrote:

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Nikolai W. [email protected] wrote:

Here are the statistics of the require_relative thread (name, number
of messages):

[list]

The top two posters, skipping you and Ilias himself, are the two that
posted warnings in this thread. The poster who re-quoted one of the
warnings is in the top ten.

I suppose I’m one of the top two, so I suppose you’re talking (at least
partly) about me when you say this:

My point is that it’s not up to others to decide what I, or anyone
else, deem worthy of discussion.

When have I ever said anything of the sort?

Some have, as the list showed, engaged him and it’s mildly
annoying when some of those posters then tell everyone else to steer
clear of him.

I don’t think I said this, either. Here’s what I actually said:

On Monday, June 20, 2011 04:52:34 PM David M. wrote:

Anyone who believes Ilias should be given the benefit of the doubt, and
that the “list police” (just concerned users, really) shouldn’t be warning
people not to feed the troll, watch what Ilias does here.

I haven’t actually told anyone to stay away, I’m only pointing out, by
way of
illustration, that those who have said to stay away are doing so out of
experience, and not as some sort of arbitrary censorship or attempt to
“police” anyone. In fact, I think that sort of argument would have
more
credibility coming from those who’ve actually engaged him.

That is: I’m not deciding for you that it’s not worth discussing. I’m
not even
saying the topic isn’t worth discussing, though I do think the
“require_relative” thread got to that point – but sometimes, Ilias does
spark
interesting discussions, though they seem to happen in spite of his best
efforts to kill the more interesting discussion by declaring it
off-topic.

I’m not even saying not to feed him. I’m just saying, this is what
happens
when you do. If you still think it’s likely to be worth your time, I’m
doing
absolutely nothing to stop you.

I have the time to waste, and I find it entertaining sometimes, but that
doesn’t mean it’s been a productive use of my time. And you’re right:

On Tuesday, June 21, 2011 05:06:41 AM Nikolai W. wrote:

Perhaps they should heed their own and each other’s warnings instead
of repeatedly telling everyone else what to do?

I haven’t told anyone what to do, but I absolutely should heed those
warnings.
At least I’ve got my priorities straight now – I think I’ve spent much
more
time responding to you than I did in my last post to him.

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 16:07, Adam P. [email protected] wrote:

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Nikolai W. [email protected] wrote:

My point is that it’s not up to others to decide what I, or anyone
else, deem worthy of discussion. It seems that most posters on this
list have managed to stay clear of most of what Ilias has been posting
about. Some have, as the list showed, engaged him and it’s mildly
annoying when some of those posters then tell everyone else to steer
clear of him.

I appreciate what you’re driving at, but a request to not feed the
troll is not making your decision for you, it’s basically a
suggestion. Obviously nobody has control over what you do. Second, I
would think the people who have engaged him certainly have an idea of
where the thread might lead!

I shall stop adding to posts in this thread, as people have suggested.
Feel free to join me!

I’m in! :slight_smile:

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 09:39:14PM +0900, Nikolai W. wrote:

Here are the statistics of the require_relative thread (name, number
of messages):

Ilias L., 48
Phillip G., 15
David M., 12
Chad P., 10

[snip]

The top two posters, skipping you and Ilias himself, are the two that
posted warnings in this thread. The poster who re-quoted one of the
warnings is in the top ten.

. . . and the number four (number three after Ilias) is me. Do you know
what that proves?

It proves I learned something from my experience. I’m not sure why
you’re intent on casting the act of trying to keep this list from
becoming completely useless for actual productive Ruby discussion as a
villainous act.

On 20 , 22:21, Ilias L. [email protected] wrote:

And so I started wondering about this here:

MIDASWAD - Matz is Dumb and so We are Dumb
[…]

Rating from the reactions (including the silence), this draft version
is already “good” enough. Yes, there are some errors and flaws here
and there, language, content and even in the “logical argumentation
lines”.

But an open mind will see the essence and at least silently admit:

This language system kills itself.

Wake up!

.

On 21 , 16:07, Chuck R. [email protected] wrote:

I’d view it as more of a "dear god, can we not have another

I fully expect this thread will go another few dozen replies and yet none but a
few will see the irony. If I were Lazaridis, I’d be laughing my fool head off (and
he probably is).

You are right, I’m smiling often, when looking at the “freak-show”.
Sometimes I laugh even, e.g. when telling people honestly and directly
“I don’t take you serious and I don’t respect you”, and seeing that
they have no self-respect and continue to address me directly, and
even using my first name.

But sometimes there are tears.

Because what happens here just reminds me that man-kind is still in
the mid-age, where the power of “freak-shows” executed “witches” in
the fire.

I can only repeat: I don’t feel the slightest respect for this “freak-
show”, and I do not take them serious.

But as a collective, of course I take them serious. Like a herd of
hyenas, they can be very dangerous. Like the mob which shouts “Free
her Soul in the Fire”.

Sometimes there are tears.

Because I see how far away my major wish is.

May the World find Unity.

.

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 16:46, David M. [email protected] wrote:

warnings is in the top ten.
I suppose I’m one of the top two, so I suppose you’re talking (at least
partly) about me when you say this:

No, you were the one I skipped, precisely because you haven’t said
anything of the sort. I got you and Adam P. confused when I
responded. I’m sorry about the mix-up.

On Jun 20, 10:21 pm, Ilias L. [email protected] wrote:>
(public draft)

I’ve notice several people mentioning something like “Matz is nice and
so we are nice” (MINASWAN).

MINASWAN - Sounds like Japanese.

Japanese, like Mr. Yukihiro M. (Matz), the ruby language
designer is.

And so I started wondering about this here:

MIDASWAD - Matz is Dumb and so We are Dumb

[…]

Talking about “Killing a Language System”.

If members of the “freak-show” control central project resources, then
things become critical.

Gateway Shutting
Downhttp://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.ruby/browse_frm/thread/37320…

And the real “rationale” of this:

"I’m shutting down the Ruby gateway. Gated messages - Ilias messages <
4% of gated Usenet traffic. You’re welcome."https://twitter.com/#!/
JEG2/status/83267057872932864

A public service gateway, which connects ruby-talk with the usenet
group comp.lang.ruby and ensures that discussions are relayed to
thousands of usenet-servers and several archives.

Shutting it down, instead of make an announcement “will shutdown in x
weeks, looking for new maintainer”.

And all this when I start to “get hands on the C-core”. A serious
code-
level task.

REWORK - Task: Unify behaviour of by-literal-instantiated
Objectshttp://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.ruby/browse_frm/thread/8d55c…

Isn’t it an amazing coincidence?

.

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Ilias L.
[email protected]wrote:

Isn’t it an amazing coincidence?

It certainly is not - Mr. Jesse Ventura (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_Theory_with_Jesse_Ventura) will
be
contacting you shortly I’m sure …

Continue to fight the great fight!

John

On 22 , 01:17, Ilias L. [email protected] wrote:

On Jun 20, 10:21 pm, Ilias L. [email protected] wrote:>
(public draft)
[…]

Corrected links:

Gateway Shutting Down
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.ruby/browse_frm/thread/37320746a0e65441#

“I’m shutting down the Ruby gateway. Gated messages - Ilias messages <
4% of gated Usenet traffic. You’re welcome.”
https://twitter.com/#!/JEG2/status/83267057872932864

REWORK - Task: Unify behaviour of by-literal-instantiated Objects
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.ruby/browse_frm/thread/8d55ce96810ccf60#

Please note that although I send my messages additionally to ruby-
talk, I do not read the ruby-talk list but only the comp.lang.ruby
usenet group.

So you can write freely on ruby-talk, in your small “club”, without
expecting any reply.

Please line in:

ruby-talk, puppies, which need protection of a censoring instance

comp.lang.ruby, professionals, which know how to setup a filter

Whoever sees this abrupt interruption of service and does not react,
is essentially part of this first step towards censorship.

As said: mid-century.

As a side-note:

I am trying this “twitter” thing a little:

https://twitter.com/LazaridisCom

.

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