Forum: Ruby Re: Perl 6 (Was: Boy I love the Ruby community)

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638b65aa15e05df5cd18d47cb03b08e3?d=identicon&s=25 Avdi G. (avdi)
on 2007-03-05 16:33
(Received via mailing list)
To me the most interesting thing about Perl 6, should it ever be
released, is that (AFAIK) it has built-in support for swapping in new
parsers at runtime.  This has intriguing implications for DSLs.
Robert Dober (Guest)
on 2007-03-05 17:15
(Received via mailing list)
On 3/5/07, Avdi Grimm <avdi@avdi.org> wrote:
> To me the most interesting thing about Perl 6, should it ever be
> released, is that (AFAIK) it has built-in support for swapping in new
> parsers at runtime.  This has intriguing implications for DSLs.
>
Oh yes but there are many many others. Maybe too many :(
It immediately struck me when I read the Apocalypsis that writting
Perl6 code will be fun...
.... and reading Perl6 code written by others might just be hell.
Robert
Daniel Berger (Guest)
on 2007-03-05 17:16
(Received via mailing list)
On Mar 5, 8:33 am, "Avdi Grimm" <a...@avdi.org> wrote:
> To me the most interesting thing about Perl 6, should it ever be
> released, is that (AFAIK) it has built-in support for swapping in new
> parsers at runtime.  This has intriguing implications for DSLs.

Good luck with maintenance.

Dan
638b65aa15e05df5cd18d47cb03b08e3?d=identicon&s=25 Avdi G. (avdi)
on 2007-03-05 17:58
(Received via mailing list)
On 3/5/07, Daniel Berger <djberg96@gmail.com> wrote:
> Good luck with maintenance.

Perl?  Maintenance?  That's crazy-talk!
Robert Dober (Guest)
on 2007-03-05 18:30
(Received via mailing list)
On 3/5/07, Avdi Grimm <avdi@avdi.org> wrote:
> On 3/5/07, Daniel Berger <djberg96@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Good luck with maintenance.
>
> Perl?  Maintenance?  That's crazy-talk!
>
> --
> Avdi
>
>

Write everywhere, use once!

Now that is mean but I could not resist, sorry folks.
Jason Roelofs (Guest)
on 2007-03-05 20:49
(Received via mailing list)
Maybe when Perl 6 comes out, a yearly Perl Readability Contest will
start,
being of course the challenge to write the most readable Perl code!

Jason
Martin DeMello (Guest)
on 2007-03-05 20:56
(Received via mailing list)
On 3/6/07, Jason Roelofs <jameskilton@gmail.com> wrote:
> Maybe when Perl 6 comes out, a yearly Perl Readability Contest will start,
> being of course the challenge to write the most readable Perl code!

I hear its major ecological niche will be as a scripting language for
Duke Nukem Forever

martin
Chad Perrin (Guest)
on 2007-03-05 23:06
(Received via mailing list)
On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 04:56:10AM +0900, Martin DeMello wrote:
> On 3/6/07, Jason Roelofs <jameskilton@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Maybe when Perl 6 comes out, a yearly Perl Readability Contest will start,
> >being of course the challenge to write the most readable Perl code!
>
> I hear its major ecological niche will be as a scripting language for
> Duke Nukem Forever

No, that's Arc.
638b65aa15e05df5cd18d47cb03b08e3?d=identicon&s=25 Avdi G. (avdi)
on 2007-03-05 23:18
(Received via mailing list)
On 3/5/07, Chad Perrin <perrin@apotheon.com> wrote:
> No, that's Arc.

You can't rush Art.
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky (Guest)
on 2007-03-06 03:47
(Received via mailing list)
Chad Perrin wrote:
>
> No, that's Arc.
>
>
No, Arc's niche is that it will be the only language that's *never*
released. :)

--
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky, FBG, AB, PTA, PGS, MS, MNLP, NST, ACMC(P)
http://borasky-research.blogspot.com/

If God had meant for carrots to be eaten cooked, He would have given
rabbits fire.
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky (Guest)
on 2007-03-06 03:52
(Received via mailing list)
Avdi Grimm wrote:
> On 3/5/07, Chad Perrin <perrin@apotheon.com> wrote:
>> No, that's Arc.
>
> You can't rush Art.
>
Art? I thought his name was Paul.

--
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky, FBG, AB, PTA, PGS, MS, MNLP, NST, ACMC(P)
http://borasky-research.blogspot.com/

If God had meant for carrots to be eaten cooked, He would have given
rabbits fire.
Chad Perrin (Guest)
on 2007-03-06 03:58
(Received via mailing list)
On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 11:46:55AM +0900, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
> >>Duke Nukem Forever
> >>
> >
> >No, that's Arc.
> >
> >
> No, Arc's niche is that it will be the only language that's *never*
> released. :)

. . . and you think Duke Nukem Forever *will* be released?  I'd think
the name -- Forever -- would be a clue.
Yukihiro Matsumoto (Guest)
on 2007-03-06 16:16
(Received via mailing list)
Hi,

In message "Re: Perl 6 (Was: Boy I love the Ruby community)"
    on Tue, 6 Mar 2007 07:05:30 +0900, Chad Perrin <perrin@apotheon.com>
writes:

|> I hear its major ecological niche will be as a scripting language for
|> Duke Nukem Forever
|
|No, that's Arc.

The new site for Y Combinatior is written in Arc.  It's working.

    http://ycombinator.com/announcingnews.html

              matz.
Chad Perrin (Guest)
on 2007-03-06 22:38
(Received via mailing list)
On Wed, Mar 07, 2007 at 12:15:17AM +0900, Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote:
> The new site for Y Combinatior is written in Arc.  It's working.
>
>     http://ycombinator.com/announcingnews.html

Excellent!

I joke about Arc being vaporware, but I'm pretty excited to see how it
turns out.  Thanks for the information, Matz.
Adrian Howard (Guest)
on 2007-03-07 10:49
(Received via mailing list)
On 5 Mar 2007, at 16:57, Avdi Grimm wrote:

> On 3/5/07, Daniel Berger <djberg96@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Good luck with maintenance.
>
> Perl?  Maintenance?  That's crazy-talk!

And we were just saying how friendly this place was :-)

Adrian
Chad Perrin (Guest)
on 2007-03-07 10:56
(Received via mailing list)
On Wed, Mar 07, 2007 at 06:48:29PM +0900, Adrian Howard wrote:
>
> On 5 Mar 2007, at 16:57, Avdi Grimm wrote:
>
> >On 3/5/07, Daniel Berger <djberg96@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>Good luck with maintenance.
> >
> >Perl?  Maintenance?  That's crazy-talk!
>
> And we were just saying how friendly this place was :-)

'sokay.  Perl hackers tend to have a good sense of humor, too.

By the way, my sig below is chosen randomly.  You can blame my Perl sig
here on serendipity -- or on my computer.
E56b77bf3cfb4d21fbf04a5bf943a36e?d=identicon&s=25 Rick D. (rdenatale)
on 2007-03-07 19:45
(Received via mailing list)
On 3/7/07, Adrian Howard <adrianh@quietstars.com> wrote:
>
> On 5 Mar 2007, at 16:57, Avdi Grimm wrote:
>
> > On 3/5/07, Daniel Berger <djberg96@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Good luck with maintenance.
> >
> > Perl?  Maintenance?  That's crazy-talk!
>
> And we were just saying how friendly this place was :-)

I mentioned my theory at the last local ruby brigade get together that
the great thing about programming languages is that there are so many
of then that anyone can find at least a half-dozen or so that he can
hate without trying too hard. ;-)

Personally I just wonder, like Rodney King,  "Why can't we just all get
along?"


--
Rick DeNatale

My blog on Ruby
http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/
Daniel Berger (Guest)
on 2007-03-07 20:25
(Received via mailing list)
On Mar 7, 11:44 am, "Rick DeNatale" <rick.denat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > And we were just saying how friendly this place was :-)
>
> I mentioned my theory at the last local ruby brigade get together that
> the great thing about programming languages is that there are so many
> of then that anyone can find at least a half-dozen or so that he can
> hate without trying too hard. ;-)
>
> Personally I just wonder, like Rodney King,  "Why can't we just all get along?"

Short answer: Love and money.

Long answer: http://steve.yegge.googlepages.com/bambi-meets-godzilla

Regards,

Dan
Giles Bowkett (Guest)
on 2007-03-08 09:56
(Received via mailing list)
My theory on this is that programmers don't know where they end and
the language begins. If you're doing something interesting and
challenging, the language won't matter. (Of course, I've been working
exclusively with Ruby almost from the moment I discovered it, so I
could just be completely full of BS there.)
Robert Dober (Guest)
on 2007-03-08 10:06
(Received via mailing list)
On 3/8/07, Giles Bowkett <gilesb@gmail.com> wrote:
> My theory on this is that programmers don't know where they end and
> the language begins. If you're doing something interesting and
> challenging, the language won't matter. (Of course, I've been working
> exclusively with Ruby almost from the moment I discovered it, so I
> could just be completely full of BS there.)
No I do not think so;),  just that you are exaggerating on a valid
point.

Of course I would prefer to write lots of Java for an interesting
project working with good people and as a side remark our Java code
might become pretty pretty ;), rather to work on a dull project in
Ruby.
However when I can chose the language for the project than I will not
hesitate to take Ruby.
Both cases are extremes of course.

Cheers
Robert
Adrian Howard (Guest)
on 2007-03-08 10:23
(Received via mailing list)
On 8 Mar 2007, at 08:55, Giles Bowkett wrote:

> My theory on this is that programmers don't know where they end and
> the language begins. If you're doing something interesting and
> challenging, the language won't matter. (Of course, I've been working
> exclusively with Ruby almost from the moment I discovered it, so I
> could just be completely full of BS there.)
[snip]

I have an entire lightning rant on that topic. I have a strong
dislike for "Foo Developer" as a job title (Foo == Perl/Ruby/Lisp/
whatever). It's limiting.

Adrian
Giles Bowkett (Guest)
on 2007-03-08 10:50
(Received via mailing list)
> > My theory on this is that programmers don't know where they end and
> > the language begins. If you're doing something interesting and
> > challenging, the language won't matter. (Of course, I've been working
> > exclusively with Ruby almost from the moment I discovered it, so I
> > could just be completely full of BS there.)
> [snip]
>
> I have an entire lightning rant on that topic. I have a strong
> dislike for "Foo Developer" as a job title (Foo == Perl/Ruby/Lisp/
> whatever). It's limiting.

It's terribly limiting, especially since anybody who's learned more
than a couple languages knows that picking up any given language is
not really so hard. Also the hiring priorities of a lot of companies
tend to actually favor cultural inbreeding, in that five years of
Python is somehow considered better than a year of Python, a year of
Perl, a year of Ruby, a year of Smalltalk, and a year of Erlang. In
fact a resume like that could have some real value to it, depending
very much on what the programmer actually **did** in those languages
(even though what the programmer did is often seen as less significant
than the language the programmer used at the time -- which has to be
one of the most bass-ackwards things on the planet).

However, if your job title really was "Foo Developer," that would make
for an entertaining business card.
Robert Dober (Guest)
on 2007-03-08 13:57
(Received via mailing list)
On 3/8/07, Giles Bowkett <gilesb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It's terribly limiting, especially since anybody who's learned more
> than a couple languages knows that picking up any given language is
> not really so hard.
Beware of mannerisms though, but on the big lines I agree with you.
Therefore somebody with a Java/Ada/Perl/Python/Ruby/Smalltalk/C
background (guess who) will have (actually has) a harder time to grasp
Caml/Erlang/Haskell
> Also the hiring priorities of a lot of companies
> tend to actually favor cultural inbreeding, in that five years of
> Python is somehow considered better than a year of Python, a year of
> Perl, a year of Ruby, a year of Smalltalk, and a year of Erlang.
I prepared the following +1 nicely, did I not ;)
+1
>In
> fact a resume like that could have some real value to it, depending
> very much on what the programmer actually **did** in those languages
> (even though what the programmer did is often seen as less significant
> than the language the programmer used at the time -- which has to be
> one of the most bass-ackwards things on the planet).

It is very true and very sad. However there is really not much I feel
can be done, it is a mirror of the society, Do we have time to think?
No we do not, period, anyway thinking is not good for you :(
>
> However, if your job title really was "Foo Developer," that would make
> for an entertaining business card.

I will definitely ask for the knowledge of Foo(1) as a programming
language in the next job description I will file, this is a brilliant
idea.
>
> --
> Giles Bowkett
> http://www.gilesgoatboy.org
> http://gilesbowkett.blogspot.com
> http://giles.tumblr.com/
>
>
Cheers
Robert

(1) after checking and crosschecking that it really does not exist of
course!
E56b77bf3cfb4d21fbf04a5bf943a36e?d=identicon&s=25 Rick D. (rdenatale)
on 2007-03-08 21:44
(Received via mailing list)
On 3/8/07, Giles Bowkett <gilesb@gmail.com> wrote:

> However, if your job title really was "Foo Developer," that would make
> for an entertaining business card.

My IBM business card had my title as "Senior Smalltalk Guru"

--
Rick DeNatale

My blog on Ruby
http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/
Adrian Howard (Guest)
on 2007-03-09 10:35
(Received via mailing list)
On 8 Mar 2007, at 20:43, Rick DeNatale wrote:

> On 3/8/07, Giles Bowkett <gilesb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> However, if your job title really was "Foo Developer," that would
>> make
>> for an entertaining business card.
>
> My IBM business card had my title as "Senior Smalltalk Guru"

Wandering off-topic - but I think my best job title was "Head
Techie". Still got the business cards somewhere :-)

Adrian
7a8de827ec9031e43ecb1e97ab34461d?d=identicon&s=25 Alex Y. (regularfry)
on 2007-03-09 10:59
(Received via mailing list)
Adrian Howard wrote:
> Wandering off-topic - but I think my best job title was "Head Techie".
> Still got the business cards somewhere :-)

A friend of mine has "Test Pilot".  That takes some beating.
Giles Bowkett (Guest)
on 2007-03-10 19:13
(Received via mailing list)
I had "Web Monkey" on business cards in 1997. (From an actual large
corporation, not just my own card.)
Chad Perrin (Guest)
on 2007-03-10 20:24
(Received via mailing list)
On Sun, Mar 11, 2007 at 03:12:18AM +0900, Giles Bowkett wrote:
> I had "Web Monkey" on business cards in 1997. (From an actual large
> corporation, not just my own card.)

My resume, at one time, said "Freelance Web Assassin".  I actually got
work with that resume.

It also, at one point, listed among my "responsibilities" for military
experience in the work history section "responsible for the safety of
millions of Americans".  That line was actually the one thing that got
me a job, once.  I love hiring managers with a sense of humor.
Klaus Ramelow (Guest)
on 2007-03-11 01:47
(Received via mailing list)
Chad Perrin schrieb:
> On Sun, Mar 11, 2007 at 03:12:18AM +0900, Giles Bowkett wrote:
>
>> I had "Web Monkey" on business cards in 1997. (From an actual large
>> corporation, not just my own card.)
>>
>
>
I think , a „discussion“ like this - miles away from our interests and
(I hope intentions) -
will destroy this community. Normally I would call this fruitless and
SILLY !
Klaus
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky (Guest)
on 2007-03-11 02:00
(Received via mailing list)
Chad Perrin wrote:
> experience in the work history section "responsible for the safety of
> millions of Americans".  That line was actually the one thing that got
> me a job, once.  I love hiring managers with a sense of humor.
>
>
You think *that's* funny -- I once got a job because the "hiring
manager" was born on the same day of the year I was -- December 7th. :)

--
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky, FBG, AB, PTA, PGS, MS, MNLP, NST, ACMC(P)
http://borasky-research.blogspot.com/

If God had meant for carrots to be eaten cooked, He would have given
rabbits fire.
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