Ruby and IronRuby are the best thing happened to us.
We had no options in the past to work with asp.net except Vb.net and C#.
And to my knowledge Vb.Net community was silently forced to switchover
to C#, by making more examples available in C# than Vb.Net.
Even C# developers are currently offered more salary than Vb.Net
But NOW that’s not the scenario any more.
With IronRuby, we can enjoy best of both the world… I mean IronRuby on
Rails and Asp.Net MVC with IronRuby. Ruby in fact has won many hearts by
its dynamic language and more power.
Just wondering what percentage will still prefer to work with the ugly
coding and long code approach with C#…?
Just wondering what percentage will still prefer to work with the ugly
coding and long code approach with C#…?
To be frank and honest… I just hate C#. C# 3.0 is just nothing but
imitating few powers of Ruby onto C#.
I just do not know… whether MSFT will respect IronRuby like C#.
The Day i feel, IronRuby is treated as a MSFT child, i will make a
switchover to IronRuby with wasting a second.
I am currently exploring Ruby and Ruby on Rails
Iron Ruby wrote:
The Day i feel, IronRuby is treated as a MSFT child, i will make a
switchover to IronRuby with wasting a second.
Hi,
Let me make few things clear. IronRuby/Ironpython are the first ever
open source projects taken up by MSFT.
If they are really serious, they should justify both the new DLR
languages with a good IDE like VS Express Tools. Not much cannot be
done, without a good IDE support. I do not think any good IDE is shaping
up at MSFT end for this new language support.
The only IronRuby tool that’s shaping up is from Sapphire Steel, but
that does not come free. Sun has been working very hard with their
NetBeans IDE. Its latest Netbeans 6.1 can serve as a great inspiration
for IronRuby Team.
MSFT has expertise with great IDE tools from beginning and with VS
Express Tools and VS 2008, i am surprised to see, what’s stopping MSFT
to go ahead with IronRuby support within VS Express Tools.
Provided i get a good IDE from MSFT, i am sure to join u guys .
Softmind T. wrote:
The only IronRuby tool that’s shaping up is from Sapphire Steel, but
that does not come free.
Can I clarify that IronRuby In Steel - our IronRuby-specific IDE - is
free and will remain free.
best wishes
Huw
SapphireSteel Software
Ruby and Rails In Visual Studio
http://www.sapphiresteel.com
I think you’ll find that C# has a strong following and that not
everyone prefers Ruby (or Python)…
Michael F.
I think ‘jumping ship’ is the wrong way to think about it. C# is still
a very useful language, however in certain situations Ruby is the more
logical choice. I don’t see this as either\or, but a way to extend
your toolset and choice the right language for your scenario - be it
C#, Ruby or even VB.net! Plus there are a lot of legacy systems and
knowledge based around C#, certainly a decision when deciding on your
language.
Ben
Blog.BenHall.me.uk
On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Michael F.
Michael F. wrote:
I think you’ll find that C# has a strong following and that not
everyone prefers Ruby (or Python)…
Michael F.
Agreed, C# has a great following, but it was because there was no other
OPTION to work with .Net.
Ruby without IronRuby is neck to neck with C# as per Tiobe Index.
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
Guess what popularity IronRuby will gain, once it enters .Net Platform…
I’m sure it will take over C# soon
Just my Opinion.
SoftMind.
Hi,
I VOTE FOR IRONRUBY…My Big PLUS for it. +
I always kept myself away from .Net, since i never liked C#, and i was
sorry to see the Vb.Net community ignored after their long association
with VB6 and then Vb.Net.
MSFT should support their loyal developers ( Vb6 and Vb.Net ) first. C#
came much later. I was scared to be ignored in long run.
With IronRuby/Ruby, i am safe with both the worlds.
I don’t think Microsoft ignored the VB.net community, infact is has
some real nice features not found in C#. I don’t see why Microsoft
should support VB6 when its a horrible language for actual
development.
On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 12:43 AM, Softmind T.
[email protected]
wrote:
Not much cannot be done, without a good IDE support.
The same reason you think this is the same reason Ruby will have a hard
time succeeding in the .NET community. Ruby didn’t get to where it is
today
with overwhelming IDE support, and I don’t think it needs the kind of
IDE
support like you get with Visual Studio to move forward.
You can argue that VB and C# and Java need that level of IDE support. My
opinion is that the IDEs have lead to the state of those languages
today,
and is part of the reason so many are looking to Ruby and Python.
On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 4:33 AM, Ben H. [email protected]
wrote:
I think ‘jumping ship’ is the wrong way to think about it. C# is still
a very useful language, however in certain situations Ruby is the more
logical choice. I don’t see this as either\or, but a way to extend
your toolset and choice the right language for your scenario - be it
C#, Ruby or even VB.net! Plus there are a lot of legacy systems and
knowledge based around C#, certainly a decision when deciding on your
language.
I believe the future will be similar to the whole ‘polyglot programming’
or
‘language oriented programming’ meme. A strong focus on domain specific
languages built with dynamic languages, lots of business logic in a
dynamic
language, and a platform layer underneath built with a language like C#
that
is closely aligned with the VM.
I did a presentation about this. You can get the slides here:
http://blowmage.com/2008/3/10/ironruby-csharp-awesomeness
And I recorded a podcast with Ola B. about this. You can find that
here:
http://rubiverse.com/podcasts/5-ola-bini-on-polyglot-programming
~Mike
Ben H. wrote:
I don’t see why Microsoft
should support VB6 when its a horrible language for actual
development.
Hi,
Just to clarify. By VB6 and Vb.Net i meant those, dedicated developers
who started their career with VB and ended up with Vb.Net. MSFT should
support keeping their old establishment in mind. Majority of VB6
developers had no other option but to go with Vb.Net
MSFT created C#, just to attract Java community, but infact it did not
happen.
Java was scared of Ruby and hence jRuby appeared. MS waked up a bit
later and now we have IronRuby.
Its no wonder that Ruby is here to stay for longer time. Its important
to see, how MSFT treats this new baby.
On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 6:55 AM, Mike M. [email protected] wrote:
I believe the future will be similar to the whole ‘polyglot programming’ or
‘language oriented programming’ meme. A strong focus on domain specific
languages built with dynamic languages, lots of business logic in a dynamic
language, and a platform layer underneath built with a language like C# that
is closely aligned with the VM.
See also Steve Yegge’s recent (and quite lengthy) blog entry at
http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/06/rhinos-and-tigers.html
–
Curt H.
[email protected]
Josh C. wrote:
I have to agree with Mike here. Ruby development with TextMate (a
text editor only) works wonderfully, but I would be hesitant to
develop C# applications in the same way.
On the other hand, one thing that will be really nice is to have a
debugger that works easily, and at least similar to the one in Visual
Studio.
Majority of IronRuby developers will be using Ironruby for web designing
purpose, and working with Asp.Net MVC with IronRuby, a good IDE like VS
Express is a must.
For a plain Ruby development even “Scite” and “Netbeans 6.1” are the
best choice around. Even NotePad can solve that problem, but its hardly
used.
But when it comes to Asp.Net MVC with IronRuby, one cannot survive
without a great IDE, thats sure.
On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 8:48 AM, Mike M. [email protected] wrote:
The same reason you think this is the same reason Ruby will have a hard
time succeeding in the .NET community. Ruby didn’t get to where it is today
with overwhelming IDE support, and I don’t think it needs the kind of IDE
support like you get with Visual Studio to move forward.
I have to agree with Mike here. Ruby development with TextMate (a
text editor only) works wonderfully, but I would be hesitant to
develop C# applications in the same way.
On the other hand, one thing that will be really nice is to have a
debugger that works easily, and at least similar to the one in Visual
Studio.
2008/6/18 Rahil K. [email protected]:
Majority of IronRuby developers will be using Ironruby for web designing
purpose, and working with Asp.Net MVC with IronRuby, a good IDE like VS
Express is a must.
For a plain Ruby development even “Scite” and “Netbeans 6.1” are the
best choice around. Even NotePad can solve that problem, but its hardly
used.
But when it comes to Asp.Net MVC with IronRuby, one cannot survive
without a great IDE, thats sure.
What’s wrong with Vim?
(I am sincere.)
Ok I openly admit that I am not too familiar with so-called integrated
development environments. So sue me.
This is a very interesting discussion. I’d like to add a few points:
- VB is still MSFTs most widely used programming language (as mentioned
by
some seemingly knowledgeable MSFT guy on Hanselminutes podcast)
- C# and VB will probably still out perform IronRuby when it is
released
- IMO, most .NET developers know very little about Ruby and even less
about
IronRuby right now. The impact of IronRuby will most likely have a
direct
relationship to the impact of Silverlight.
On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 6:58 AM, Rahil K. [email protected]
wrote:
MSFT created C#, just to attract Java community, but infact it did not
happen.
Java was scared of Ruby and hence jRuby appeared. MS waked up a bit
later and now we have IronRuby.
If you start with C++ and remove all of its painful, unsafe and
rarely-used features, you’re going to end up with a language that
looks like Java. That’s not to say that Java wasn’t an influence on
C#, but the language was clearly aimed primarily at C++ programmers
already on a Microsoft platform. Another way of looking at it is to
recognize that in 1999, Microsoft had two first-class development
environments – VB6 and VC6. VB.NET was the CLR “upgrade path” for
the VB6 programmers and C# served the same purpose for VC6.
As for “Java was scared of Ruby”, I assume by Java that you mean Sun.
Sun didn’t start supporting JRuby until well after the project was
started by people in the community. Well before that, there was
Jython – an implementation of Python for the JVM. The creator of
Jython was Jim Hugunin, who went on to create IronPython and work for
Microsoft. And this was before Ruby’s fairly recent meteoric (and
largely Rails-driven) rise to prominence. So, interest in dynamic
languages has been growing steadily over the last decade and it’s not
just some recent mad (and fear-based) scramble to support them.
Finally, I think you’ll find that – at least in the short term –
most programmers don’t have a choice about the language they use; it’s
dictated to them by their employer.
–
Curt H.
[email protected]
Hi,
We are talking about pure IronRuby applications here. For Plain Ruby
development we already have many options
The real fact is “Asp.Net MVC with IronRuby”, needs a great IDE
support,the same way Vb.Net and C# needs today.
Without IDE, it will take ages to create folders with MVC approach.
If MSFT and IronRuby team are really serious about their first Open
Source Project, they should not neglect a great IDE.
It would be really sad to lose large amount of ruby developers moving
away from .net without a good IDE support.
CLR + DLR with great .net framework is the best thing happened to
us.MSFT should not kill this charm with a lack of good IDE.
On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 8:09 AM, Rahil K. [email protected]
wrote:
But when it comes to Asp.Net MVC with IronRuby, one cannot survive
without a great IDE, thats sure.
I think you *need *an IDE like Visual Studio for writing ASP.NET MVC web
apps because ASP.NET MVC is a web framework written for C#. Even if you
use
a different language like Python or Ruby. In the same vein, Ruby on
Rails is
a web framework written for Ruby, and doesn’t *need *those IDEs to be
productive.