Where put require

Rails
21

Paul B. wrote in post #969903:

Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote in post #969891:

I didn’t realize it was a blanket prohibition.

Why can’t you respect that?

I can’t respect the idea that you get to decide who answers you when you
post on an unmoderated public list. If you don’t want answers from the
public, don’t post here.

I only ask you to respect me as a fellow human being, asking you to
behave and interact with other people in a kind, respectful and warm
manner. :slight_smile: Is that too much to ask?

I believe I have always done that; to the extent I haven’t, I certainly
apologize.

Several times when I have asked a question you have given me a question
back like “why do you want to do that?” instead of just answering my
question. Once or twice is nothing but not all the time.

It’s nothing personal. You have a tendency to ask questions on this
list which betray a misunderstanding of how to get the most out of
Rails. It is my usual procedure – and, on the evidence, that of many
others here – to clarify why you’re asking for advice on something that
doesn’t seem like a good idea in the first place.

I am not going to just stick my head in the sand and tell you or anyone
else how to implement a bad idea without first saying “this is a bad
idea and here’s how to do it better”.

If you don’t want advice, don’t ask for it. If you ask for advice,
please listen to it. Doing otherwise is not respectful to the people
taking time and effort to give you the best advice we know how to give.

I didn’t ask for your opinion about bundler. I asked if there is a way
to require a gem but keep the gems in one place, like before. I don’t
understand why that question would be so hard to understand. Why make it
so complicated Marnen?

I’m not making things complicated; you are. Rails explicitly makes it
easy to do things in the “Rails way”, and less easy to do things that
its designers consider bad. That means that it will actually be less
complicated if you learn the Rails way before trying to ignore it.

The Rails 3 way involves Bundler. Since it’s the Rails 3 way, you
should learn it before deciding to do without it.

I’m sure bundler is wonderful, but I could do without it.

Then do without it – after learning to use it.

Is that ok
with you?

It’s not up to me.

You seem like a person who get nervous when someone is not
following the rules. Is that true? Is that the problem here?

No. I pity people who choose an opinionated framework such as Rails,
and then make life hard for themselves by choosing to ignore that
framework’s conventions in the name of “simplicity”. It’s actually
simpler in most cases to learn Rails’ conventions than to fight them.

Now, Rails didn’t get everything right. The core team made a
wonderfully testable framework, but built terrible testing tools –
which I know because I learned Test::Unit, then discarded it.

But if I thought that (say) it would be simpler to do without an ORM
like ActiveRecord, I’d probably stop using Rails.

Best,

Marnen Laibow-Koser
http://www.marnen.org
[email protected]

22

Paul B. wrote in post #969907:

David K. wrote in post #969902:

Rspec, Cucumber, Capybara, xpath and who knows what else at the same
time

I get exhausted of hearing about all that stuff :slight_smile:

Just kidding. I see your point. I’m kind of full with knowledge. I’m
tired of always having to learn new things. Once I was eager to do so,
but not anymore.
[…]

Then please stick with your old configuration. Trying to learn Rails 3
and make it work just like Rails 2 is an exercise in futility. To learn
new stuff, you have to learn new stuff.

Best,

Marnen Laibow-Koser
http://www.marnen.org
[email protected]

23

Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote in post #969909:

Paul B. wrote in post #969907:

Then please stick with your old configuration. Trying to learn Rails 3
and make it work just like Rails 2 is an exercise in futility. To learn
new stuff, you have to learn new stuff.

You just don’t get it.

24

David K. wrote in post #969902:

Btw, thanks for the input and you effort to help.

25

Paul B. wrote in post #969914:

Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote in post #969909:

Paul B. wrote in post #969907:

Then please stick with your old configuration. Trying to learn Rails 3
and make it work just like Rails 2 is an exercise in futility. To learn
new stuff, you have to learn new stuff.

You just don’t get it.

Funny, I’d say the same to you. What do you think I don’t get?

Best,

Marnen Laibow-Koser
http://www.marnen.org
[email protected]

26

Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote in post #969916:

You just don’t get it.

Funny, I’d say the same to you. What do you think I don’t get?

How to behave.

Listen to yourself, to you answers.

–
Me: Can I still use “require” somewhere without bundler?

–
You: It hasn’t been easy for you because you’re trying to fight Rails!
So…stop fighting Rails. Stop fighting Bundler. Learn to do things
the Rails way. If you think you can improve on the Rails way, please do
so – but do so from a position of knowledge, not a position of
ignorance.

If you’re not willing to do that, then find another Web framework that
better suits your needs.

–
Me: Haven’t I ask you not to answer my posts? Why can’t you respect
that?
(Getting this kind of answers before from you. I just had a simple
question; Can I still use “require” somewhere without bundler?)

–
You: I can’t respect the idea that you get to decide who answers you
when you
post on an unmoderated public list. If you don’t want answers from the
public, don’t post here.

If you have a problem with something I said, or if you think I’m wrong,
please feel free to tell me. If you want to killfile me, that’s your
right too. But ad hominem invalidation is silly.

Oh, wait, I can’t answer those direct questions from you. Damn. ;>

27

Paul B. wrote in post #969924:

Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote in post #969916:

You just don’t get it.

Funny, I’d say the same to you. What do you think I don’t get?

How to behave.

Listen to yourself, to you answers.
[…]

I’ve written nothing that I’d consider inappropriate – nothing that I’d
have any problem receiving as a response from someone else. Obviously,
your standards are different. That’s OK – no two people think alike.

I don’t much like ESR’s “How to Ask Smart Questions”, but I think I’d
refer you to it at this point, particularly refer you to
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way .

Best,

Marnen Laibow-Koser
http://www.marnen.org
[email protected]

28

No, you can’t.

29

Lunks wrote in post #969933:

No, you can’t.

Ok. Thanks. :slight_smile:

30

Michael P. wrote in post #969893:

…it’s a shame really… some people just don’t seem to want help.
What’s the sense in using software that declaims “convention over
configuration”, then ignoring conventions, and moaning the
configuration is too hard?

I would like help. That’s why I ask.

Nothing wrong with conventions. But sometimes it’s good to challenge
them. Bundler seems like a smart idea, for the most part. But for me,
right now, it has made it a bit more complex.

I can’t respect the idea that you get to decide who answers you when you
post on an unmoderated public list. If you don’t want answers from the
public, don’t post here.

+1

I would respect that if someone ask me. A matter of social intelligence
and respect. Common sense really. :slight_smile:

31

Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote in post #969928:

Paul B. wrote in post #969924:

I’ve written nothing that I’d consider inappropriate – nothing that I’d
have any problem receiving as a response from someone else. Obviously,
your standards are different. That’s OK – no two people think alike.

It’s the way you say it. I don’t have anything against you as a person.
Thank you for your effort to help but please consider how you do it.

32

If you want to require things by yourself:

Gemfile:
gem ‘will_paginate’, :require => nil

Then bundler won’t automatically require the library. It will just set
proper load path to make sure the the right version of will_paginete
will be loaded.
You might want to add require ‘will_paginate’ at the bottom of
application.rb. The library will be availible in the application and
rake tasks.

I do not recommend it however.

Robert Pankowecki

33

Robert Pankowecki wrote in post #970001:

If you want to require things by yourself:

Gemfile:
gem ‘will_paginate’, :require => nil

Then bundler won’t automatically require the library. It will just set
proper load path to make sure the the right version of will_paginete
will be loaded.
You might want to add require ‘will_paginate’ at the bottom of
application.rb. The library will be availible in the application and
rake tasks.

I do not recommend it however.

Robert Pankowecki
http://robert.pankowecki.pl

Good to know.

Have I understood it correctly, that if I add gem ‘will_paginate’, and
just that, it will use whatever will_paginate I already have in my gem
list?

And what about i18n. Do I need to add that in the gemfile? Previously
you didn’t have to require it. It was part of rails anyway. And as long
as it was in the gem list it worked.

34

Robert W. wrote in post #970096:

If you have a problem learning new ways to do things, then you probably
made a mistake choosing Rails. Maybe even a mistake in becoming a
software developer in the first place.

No problem at all. I like to live on the edge. Over the years I’ve
become more careful and not taking leaps to fast, risking a working
environment. That’s why it took me a while to try rails 3.

There’s no difference between rails and unix, css, html, or php. They
always evolve. And I normally like to follow to the best of my ability.

I’m not a natural programmer (I think that’s what you mean). And I don’t
think you have to be. Sorry but I have to say that it’s a really stupid
thing to say. I have skills that you don’t and which are essential for
the apps I develop.

You could turn that around. Many software developers don’t have a clue
about design, and the importance of design. They might be very skilled
in the technical part, pure programmers, but terrible in design which is
bad for the end user. I don’t judge people like that but when I get
stubborn feedback from people who might be good at rails but terrible in
design I can’t take them too seriously.

I’m a designer and design strategist with a master of design management
that has learned how to develop for the web since a long time. I’ve done
many things for others but my main objective is to develop an app based
on my method, that has taken me several years to create.

The only thing one can count on in this business is change. Rails
changes faster than any framework I’ve ever worked with. I’m not saying
that it is a bad thing. Rails 3 much improved IMHO over Rails 2 because
of the changes, and Bundler is one of the best additions of all of them.
Dependency management in Rails 2 and prior was turning into a nightmare.

I’m eager to get going with Rails 3. Bundler looks good but I didn’t
have nightmares with dependency management. Not at all. Not for my
situation. With rails 3 it’s become more complex. It’s just a fact.

P.S. No worries. I’m not going to turn this into an argument. This will
be the last post you’ll see from me on this subject. The above is
intended only as advice from someone that’s been building software for a
really long time.

And so have I. But as I said. I’m not a natural programmer. But I try to
be a software developer and I think Rails is much easier to use than e g
php. Hopefully it will stay that way.

35

Paul B. wrote in post #969907:

Just kidding. I see your point. I’m kind of full with knowledge. I’m
tired of always having to learn new things. Once I was eager to do so,
but not anymore.

I had a good life with Rails 2. Things worked well and I felt I had
learned all I needed to have a good flow in my development (of my own
few apps). Then came Rails 3 with some “cool new features”. :slight_smile:

If you have a problem learning new ways to do things, then you probably
made a mistake choosing Rails. Maybe even a mistake in becoming a
software developer in the first place.

The only thing one can count on in this business is change. Rails
changes faster than any framework I’ve ever worked with. I’m not saying
that it is a bad thing. Rails 3 much improved IMHO over Rails 2 because
of the changes, and Bundler is one of the best additions of all of them.
Dependency management in Rails 2 and prior was turning into a nightmare.

P.S. No worries. I’m not going to turn this into an argument. This will
be the last post you’ll see from me on this subject. The above is
intended only as advice from someone that’s been building software for a
really long time.

36

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 5:34 PM, Paul B.
[email protected]wrote:

There’s no difference between rails and unix, css, html, or php. They
always evolve. And I normally like to follow to the best of my ability.

I’m not a natural programmer (I think that’s what you mean). And I don’t
think you have to be. Sorry but I have to say that it’s a really stupid
thing to say. I have skills that you don’t and which are essential for
the apps I develop.

First, I am a bit ashamed to still be following this thread after all
the
name calling, but it is in place of my Mexican soap opera the last
couple
days :slight_smile:

But seriously, this is a very interesting question. I have gone through
a
seemingly unproductive few months taking on Rails 3, 1.9.2, Cucumber,
Rspec,
Capybara, learning to write xpaths, Steak, Shoulda, etc… I finally
took a
step back in the last few weeks and thought about things and what was
right
and what was not.

I consider myself an average programmer with above average creativity.
That
is why I took up Rails, to get fast and even able to realize my ideas
which I felt were too difficult in .Net. Also the idea that I could
become
adept at Ruby and have a strong scripting language to do whatever.

Development tools, languages, etc in general are created, developed and
evolved by the top percent of people. This is good but one thing that I
have
realized is that I have to know where my core talents are and what makes
sense to use and what not. What is empirically productive for one person
may
drain another. There are no studies before adoption in general – or at
best
they are case studies and a question of taste and aesthetics often. I
have
not heard anyone bring up this question, even the fact of individual
talents, abilities, learning styles, etc. as they relate to programmers
and
new technology. Matz is the first who I ever heard speak of ‘programmer
happiness’, and that endeared me a great deal.

For example, I believe that every additional DSL one needs to learn is
additional mental resources. Some people have those to spare and others
not
or prefer to put those resources on other concerns. I found Cucumber
rather
inefficient as the ‘plain English’ was itself a DSL but it did not
afford me
to forget about the lower level which was also a DSL – I still had to
deal
directly with web steps. This is why I have moved to Steak. I think
Cucumber
is great, but in the interest of my own happiness, productivity and
aesthetics I made a change.

I also think that every additional component which needs to be
configured
also eats at the time and mental resources. My live in the .NET world
was
like this and I would rather stick my hand in a vegomatic than go back
to
this. Eventhough I have kept Rspec I seriously considered going back to
Test/Unit so I could cut another possible set of concerns that may or
may
not arise.

To date I am happy where I am now. My speed is coming back and I have
learned an amazing amount, and even have started to have some opinions.

Just some thoughts… the challenge is to keep an open mind to the new
but
be able to kill off quickly that which is one’s betrayal. I can say that
I
have seen some very much better things in Rails 3 – bundler is great,
and I
do like what they did with Active Record.

37

Paul B. wrote in post #970168:

And so have I. But as I said. I’m not a natural programmer. But I try to
be a software developer and I think Rails is much easier to use than e g
php. Hopefully it will stay that way.

Actually that should be web developer. A bit tired when I wrote that and
missed it. I’m not into rails because of software development. Not sure
why anyone would.

38

David K. wrote in post #970173:

Well said. :slight_smile:

39

On 23 December 2010 23:14, Paul B. [email protected] wrote:

David K. wrote in post #970173:

Well said. :slight_smile:

Please quote the text of the message you are replying to so that
others can follow the thread. As I receive this on the mailing list
it is not at all obvious which is post #970173, so unless I spend time
tracking it down I have no Idea what you are referring to. Thanks

Colin

40

David K. wrote in post #969813:

On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Paul B.
[email protected]wrote:

Where do I put e g require ‘will_paginate’ in Rails 3 environment?

Are you using the gem? If the gem, just include it in the gemfile and
you
should be good:

gem ‘will_paginate’, :git =>
‘git://github.com/mislav/will_paginate.git’,
:branch => ‘rails3’

You where more right than I thought. But you only have to add:

gem ‘will_paginate’

Not running bundle install will then be the same as ‘require’. I think.