Translation Service

Sorry for being off topic, but I know so many of you know more
languages than I do. I have a simple document I need translated
(from English to Korean). Does anyone know a good translation
service they would recommend? Thanks in advance.

James Edward G. II

On 10/8/07, James Edward G. II removed_em[email protected] wrote:

Sorry for being off topic, but I know so many of you know more
languages than I do. I have a simple document I need translated
(from English to Korean). Does anyone know a good translation
service they would recommend? Thanks in advance.

I am in the market for something similar. My most important concern
is that I can get something that I can automate. Most of the online
services have captcha protection or equivalent to stop bots or any
scripts from using them to translate.

My current need is to get something that you can test visually. The
mediocrity of online translations doesn’t matter to me, and a basic
web service that can be automated would be worth paying for IMO,
on a subscription basis or similar.

Getting fully human translation is overkill and time consuming/costly
when all you want to do is test your BiDirectional text or verify if you
have complete translation coverage.

My current need is to get something that you can test visually. The
mediocrity of online translations doesn’t matter to me, and a basic
web service that can be automated would be worth paying for IMO,
on a subscription basis or similar.

Any reliable automated translation would be the Holy Grail of killer
apps. Hasn’t happened yet. Human language is far too implicit and
fuzzy for computers.

Getting fully human translation is overkill and time consuming/costly
when all you want to do is test your BiDirectional text or verify
if you
have complete translation coverage.

Overkill???
If you are serious about multi-lingual support, you don’t rely on a
machine for testing.
That’s lazy, cheap, and pointless because it is a false effort.
Don’t bother with that support if you don’t intend to do it correctly.

On 10/8/07, John J. [email protected] wrote:

My current need is to get something that you can test visually. The
mediocrity of online translations doesn’t matter to me, and a basic
web service that can be automated would be worth paying for IMO,
on a subscription basis or similar.

Any reliable automated translation would be the Holy Grail of killer
apps. Hasn’t happened yet. Human language is far too implicit and
fuzzy for computers.

Interesting, though. You can almost understand another language from
more than one translation engine. Stress on the “almost”.

It makes me think of another thing; that being: can you profile an IP
address?

Todd

On 10/8/07, John J. [email protected] wrote:

Getting fully human translation is overkill and time consuming/costly
when all you want to do is test your BiDirectional text or verify
if you
have complete translation coverage.

Overkill???
If you are serious about multi-lingual support, you don’t rely on a
machine for testing.
That’s lazy, cheap, and pointless because it is a false effort.
Don’t bother with that support if you don’t intend to do it correctly.

You have misread my intent.

I am testing the internationalization strategy, not the end release to
users in whatever language.

So machine translations are sufficient to determine:

  • whether everything communicated to users is coming from a resource
    file
  • whether the UI is doing things properly with bidirectional text, or
    language-sensitive sorting & text insertion
  • whether there is sufficient space in the UI for languages like, German
    or Russian which are more verbose in terms of screen width, or if the
    HTML is broken in ways that don’t support dynamic sizing
  • whether the resource lookup code (matching locales to the correct
    bundle) is working right
  • whether the HTML escaping works correctly across languages
  • whether numeric formatting is being done correctly by locale

All of these are testable with machine translations. I would use the
results of this to change the internationalization strategy prior to
localization. Its not my code, the app is suspect in this regard, and
I would appreciate knowing if the strategy is broken now, rather than
in the 11th hour when it is being translated.

James G. wrote:

Sorry for being off topic, but I know so many of you know more
languages than I do. I have a simple document I need translated
(from English to Korean). Does anyone know a good translation
service they would recommend? Thanks in advance.

James Edward G. II

what about http://babelfish.altavista.com/

Richard C. wrote:

I am testing the internationalization strategy, not the end release to
users in whatever language.
[…]
All of these are testable with machine translations.

Translation is not required for testing - you can just use lorem ipsum,
generated into bidir or other characters to the length you might need.
We tend to bracket each snippet with characters that are visually
recognisable, like [ ], to aid in manual verification that the
translated text is being used and not the default English text.

On 10/7/07, James Edward G. II [email protected] wrote:

Sorry for being off topic, but I know so many of you know more
languages than I do. I have a simple document I need translated
(from English to Korean). Does anyone know a good translation
service they would recommend? Thanks in advance.

If there’s a largish university nearby, see if the grad student office
can put you in touch with a Korean student. I know that when I was at
Rice there were some grad students who used to do freelance
translation.

martin

John J. wrote:

Any reliable automated translation would be the Holy Grail of killer
apps. Hasn’t happened yet. Human language is far too implicit and fuzzy
for computers.

That reminds me of this article:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.12/translate.html

Machine translation might be closer than we think…

Daniel

James Edward G. II wrote:

Sorry for being off topic, but I know so many of you know more languages
than I do. I have a simple document I need translated (from English to
Korean). Does anyone know a good translation service they would
recommend? Thanks in advance.

James Edward G. II

with translate.google.com

í™”ì œ ë–¨ì–´ì ¸ë¥¼ 위해 ìœ ê°ìŠ¤ëŸ¬ìš´ 이곤, 그러나 나 아십시오 ê·¸ë ‡ê²Œ 함으로 당
ì‹ ì˜ 많은 것은 나 보다는 언어를 더 ì•Œê³ ìžˆë‹¤. 나는 나가 번역해 필요로 하
는 간단한 문서가 있다 (영어를 한국어로에서). 누군가는 그들이 ì¶”ì²œí• ì¢‹ì€
번역 업무를 아는가? 미리 감사합니다.

ì œìž„ìŠ¤ Edward 회색 II

and back again

Topic it comes to tremble and hazard sensibility is boils, knows does
with you the many thing sees compared to is knowing a language but like
that. I to go out and there is a document which is simple it does in the
necessity translate (English with from the Korean language). Does the
troublesome army song their this will recommend know a good translation
service? It thanks in advance.

James Edward gray II


I hope you can find a better translator than google.

Regards

B

On Oct 8, 2007, at 11:01 PM, Daniel DeLorme wrote:

Daniel

It might be. there is some very very good software out there for
particular language pairs, but it still requires human proofreading
in most cases. But consider the type of writing tends to be a big
factor. A chemistry paper will generally be a lot easier to translate
than more conversational, casual writing. Still, the good translation
software is pretty expensive and is rarely a solution by itself. Word
for word translation rarely works due to words having multiple
contextual uses and meanings and rarely having a 1 for 1 analog in
another language.

As for testing, sure most algorithms are independent of the end
user’s language, but some things such as processing the text may be
entirely dependent on the language. Input methods for Korean are
quite different from those for Japanese and Chinese. A grammar or
spelling checker would be totally lost on Japanese text most of the
time. It is far too implicit.

But if your application doesn’t do those things, it shouldn’t matter
much. Localization is simply setting up the interface to have common
metaphors used in software in that language. Unfortunately, in some
cases those things are pretty hard to translate well. In other cases
they’re transliterated.

On Oct 8, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Alex LeDonne wrote:

So, JEG II, by “translation service”, do you mean something online, or
something where humans do the translating?

Yes, sorry, I’m looking for humans, not machines.

James Edward G. II

On 10/9/07, Clifford H. [email protected] wrote:

translated text is being used and not the default English text.
True. I would actually end up doing something like that because it is
then something that I can link into automated tests - scraping the
web UI for a regular expression is wonderfully simple with tools like
WATIR.

However, I know people in our company would be more confident with
something close to the bare metal (simplified chinese or equivalent).
Its close to our existing testing methods. It means that they don’t have
to
take a developers word for it (me). It also means that people other than
me can make a decision to pay for human translations for their own
purposes
(get reviews/buy in from regional domain experts etc.).

So yeah, both needs are important, and simple watermarking of english
resources and using made-up locales is actually a better form of
testing.
But actually making real translations means that nobody questions it.
Real translations (machine) are handy for other purposes too.

On 10/8/07, Brad P. [email protected] wrote:

that. I to go out and there is a document which is simple it does in the
necessity translate (English with from the Korean language). Does the
troublesome army song their this will recommend know a good translation
service? It thanks in advance.

James Edward gray II


Same exercise with babelfish.altavista.com:

È­Á¦¶³¾îÁ®¸¦ À§ÇØ À¯°¨½º·¯¿î ÀÖÀ½, ±×·¯³ª ³ª ¾Ë½Ê½Ã¿ä ±×·¡¼­ ³ÊÀÇ ¸¹Àº °ÍÀº ³ªº¸´Ù´Â ¾ð¾î¸¦ ´õ ÀÖÀÖ´Ù.
³ª´Â ³ª°¡ ¹ø¿ªÇØ
ÇÊ¿ä·Î ÇÏ´Â °£´ÜÇÑ ¹®¼­°¡ Àִ´٠(¿µ¾î¸¦ Çѱ¹¾î·Î¿¡¼­). ´©±º°¡´Â ±×µéÀÌ ÃßõÇÒÅÙµ¥ ÁÁÀº°¡ ¹ø¿ª ¾÷¹«¸¦
¾Ë´Â°¡? ¹Ì¸®ÀÇ
°¨»ç.
Topic falling and hazard sensibility being and being, but or egg
ten:00 bedspreads being like that and and and you being many sees
language compared to is Iss. Me to go out and there is a document
which is simple it does in the necessity translate (English with from
the Korean language). Troublesome army song their this will recommend
theyn the place good translation service is the egg? In advance
thanks.


So, JEG II, by “translation service”, do you mean something online, or
something where humans do the translating?

-A

-------- Original-Nachricht --------

Datum: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 01:35:45 +0900
Von: James Edward G. II [email protected]
An: [email protected]
Betreff: Re: [OT] Translation Service

On Oct 8, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Alex LeDonne wrote:

So, JEG II, by “translation service”, do you mean something online, or
something where humans do the translating?

Yes, sorry, I’m looking for humans, not machines.

James Edward G. II

Dear James,

there are communities on the web where you can post
your job (you may even attach your document):

http://www.translatorscafe.com/cafe/default.asp
http://www.traduguide.com/
http://www.translatorsbase.com/

and get offers of human translators (and, alas, also of
people who’ve just learned that there are machine translations
available on the net - one joke about the 1950ies efforts
of US researchers trying to win the cold war without knowing
any Russian, as ‘“electronic brains” can do it for you’, has it
that “out of mind, out of sight” translated into Russian and
back was rendered as “invisible idiot”).

Depending on whether your document is a general text/letter/story
or something technical (i.e. legal, medical or programming),
prices will differ.

Especially if you need a certified translation with a stamp on
it, things become expensive.
Otherwise, you can choose one of the freelancers that will
surely respond also.

From the communities in the list above, my experience is that the ratio
of freelancers tends to be higher in the last two, as the price level is
decreasing.

Pricing is generally done per source word. I don’t know about pricing
for English/Korean, but expect it to be higher than for translations
between European languages, which often is somewhere between 0.05 US$
and 0.10 US$ per source word. I wouldn’t be surprised if a decent
English/Korean translation were double that price.

Depending on whether you are able to check the quality of the
translation
yourself or not, it might be a good idea to also post a proofreading job
for the translated text. For translations between European languages,
one often sees prices somewhere between 0.015 USD and 0.03 USD per
source
word for this.

If you have a longer text, you could try to talk the translator into
counting only the so-called non-match words for pricing, which are
automatically counted by a translation memory tool, such as Trados or
Wordfast. These tools help translators to keep track of what words they
used earlier for the same source word and thus save some typing.
People who use that software have spent several hundred dollars on it,
so they are less likely to be inexperienced.

Best regards,

Axel

On Oct 8, 2007, at 2:53 PM, Axel E. wrote:

online, or

http://www.translatorscafe.com/cafe/default.asp
http://www.traduguide.com/
http://www.translatorsbase.com/

All of this information was extremely valuable. Thanks so much!

James Edward G. II

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