Remember James McGovern?


#1

Remember James McGovern and his articles about Rails and enterprise?

Well… Check this one out where he “puts his money where his mouth is”
http://duckdown.blogspot.com/2006/04/ruby-community-proved-mcgovern-wrong.html


#2

What a jerk. Who is his employer? I think we should start a fund to
boycott them. If he works for a software company, the quality of their
product must suffer from the contributions of someone as “enterprisey”
as
James McGovern.

The title of the posting is conciliatory
“ruby-community-proved-mcgovern-wrong”, but the post itself isn’t at
all, in
fact he borders on being a troll. Way to contradict yourself again
James.

“Anyway, for the record, the Ruby Community actually didn’t find a
single
fact to prove me wrong but at least it generated a lot of discussion.
Hopefully, new insights will emerge and that they will consider
alternative
perspectives going forward…”

-Steve
http://www.stevelongdo.com


#3

He’s a total troll. Google Ads. Blog traffic. Waste of time.

It just doesn’t matter.


Giles B.
http://www.gilesgoatboy.org


#4

Unfortunately, James represents the mindsets of many corporate
decision makers out there. While he is trollish, he does have a
point. A lot of decisions made by C-level folk require a Gartner and
Forrester report before it ends up as part of the picture. Look how
long it has taken for Linux to become accepted as an “enterprise”
solution.

Rails will eventually cross that hump, but it’ll be completely
mainstream by then. In the meantime, smaller, more forward thinking
companies can take advantage of the agile development that we enjoy
from RoR.


#5

As a former troll… I can spot a troll when I see one. :wink:

-Robby

On Apr 28, 2006, at 11:09 AM, Giles B. wrote:

What a jerk. Who is his employer? I think we should start a fund to

http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
Robby R.
Founder & Executive Director

PLANET ARGON, LLC
Ruby on Rails Development, Consulting & Hosting


www.robbyonrails.com

+1 503 445 2457
+1 877 55 ARGON [toll free]
+1 815 642 4968 [fax]


#6

Maybe you can point him to the Troll 12-step program that turned you
around
:slight_smile:

-Steve
http://www.stevelongdo.com


#7

Wow, that guy’s a full-of-crap deluded jackass.

Joe


#8

He’s fairly indicative of what you’ll find in the industry - recall that
the software game is controlled primarily by the [so-called] big 5
consulting firms [Arthur Andersen/Deloitte & Touche/Ernst &
Young/KPMG/PW Coopers] - and none of them is going to concede to ‘more
product for less money’ nor is any small firm ever going to have the
resources to take them on… It’s just business, profit margins, and
stock holders at that point, i.e. I wouldn’t take any of it personally.
Clearly they’re going to throw their collective might at anyone or
anything that threats the business model… just a different ball game
than ROR, et al.

I hope ROR doesn’t become mainstream actually - I’d hate to lose the
advantage… lord knows I can’t compete against the big 5.


#9

cdr wrote:

in case you thought ActiveRecord was actally useful:
http://www.dbdebunk.com/index.html

Useless site.

Joe


#10

in case you thought ActiveRecord was actally useful:
http://www.dbdebunk.com/index.html


#11

cdr wrote:

in case you thought ActiveRecord was actally useful:
http://www.dbdebunk.com/index.html

Did not find anything related to ActiveRecord there.
Please give a more specific link.


#12

On 29/04/06 20:25 +0200, Joe wrote:

cdr wrote:

in case you thought ActiveRecord was actally useful:
http://www.dbdebunk.com/index.html

Useless site.

Joe

I agree. Totally useless and non-navigatable.

Jason


#13

He’s just trying to make a name for himself. He attacks something
popular to make as many people as possible upset about him, thus giving
him a lot of publicity. Developers think he’s an idiot, but the
pointy-haired bosses think “This guy’s got something. I don’t know
exactly what, but I have to find a way to give him my money.”

Jón Borgþórsson wrote:

Remember James McGovern and his articles about Rails and enterprise?

Well… Check this one out where he “puts his money where his mouth is”
http://duckdown.blogspot.com/2006/04/ruby-community-proved-mcgovern-wrong.html


#14

On 01/05/06 12:05 +0200, Trent S. wrote:

He’s just trying to make a name for himself. He attacks something
popular to make as many people as possible upset about him, thus giving
him a lot of publicity. Developers think he’s an idiot, but the
pointy-haired bosses think “This guy’s got something. I don’t know
exactly what, but I have to find a way to give him my money.”

We all think McGovern’s a troll, and I agree, but the guy’s also a
marketing genius. Negative publicity is just as effective as good
publicity when trying to make a name for yourself.

Find a group of people who are very emotionally attatched to a product
or service, attack that service and it’s devotees, then find a way to
notify the devotees that their cause (product) has been attacked. This
is the perfect recipe for what I like to call “hot button marketing”.
Microsoft has been doing this for ages, although they are not as brash
about it as Mr. McGovern.

Jason


#15

On 1 May 2006, at 15:19, Jason S. wrote:

We all think McGovern’s a troll, and I agree, but the guy’s also a
marketing genius. Negative publicity is just as effective as good
publicity when trying to make a name for yourself.

That is a myth. A very dangerous one.

Negative publicity gives you brand recognition, but the recognition
is almost wholly negative. Instead of thinking of recognition as a
single value, think of it as a vector with a magnitude and direction.

With negative brand recognition, you have a huge magnitude but the
vector is in the wrong direction and you are being dragged into no
man’s land. You then need to ‘switch’ the recognition you’ve built
which costs much more money than just starting out by building good
publicity in the first place.

Personally, if I hear this guy’s name again I’m just going to think
‘somebody who really likes the sound of his own voices who doesn’t
actually know a lot about what he talks about’. For me to change that
opinion I’m going to need to read dozens of articles I’m impressed
by, and as I’ve now tuned him out I’m never going to do that. There
is a long list of names of people who fit into this category I keep
in my head - I’m tempted to start building a rails app to manage them
better.

The only way he gets benefit from this is if Rails and Ruby are
suddenly shown to be full of holes and a group of people starts to
amass that look for a leader to attack us.

As that’s not going to happen, all he’s done is show off to the World
that he is a bit of a jerk. Way to go!


#16

On 28 Apr 2006, at 17:54, Jon Gretar B. wrote:

Well… Check this one out where he “puts his money where his mouth
is”
http://duckdown.blogspot.com/2006/04/ruby-community-proved-mcgovern-
wrong.html

Can somebody actually check with the charities concerned and make
sure he did actually make the donations as he claims? I would, but
being over here in the UK I’m not sure what you can/can’t ask US
charities w/regards to donation information.


#17

On Mon, May 01, 2006 at 04:20:00PM +0100, Paul R. wrote:
} On 1 May 2006, at 15:19, Jason S. wrote:
}
} >We all think McGovern’s a troll, and I agree, but the guy’s also a
} >marketing genius. Negative publicity is just as effective as good
} >publicity when trying to make a name for yourself.
}
} That is a myth. A very dangerous one.
}
} Negative publicity gives you brand recognition, but the recognition
} is almost wholly negative. Instead of thinking of recognition as a
} single value, think of it as a vector with a magnitude and direction.
}
} With negative brand recognition, you have a huge magnitude but the
} vector is in the wrong direction and you are being dragged into no
} man’s land. You then need to ‘switch’ the recognition you’ve built
} which costs much more money than just starting out by building good
} publicity in the first place.
[…]

Well, you’re partway there. If you get a lot of publicity for attacking
something, however incompetently, you do get a large magnitude vector
pointing away from that thing. The assumption that doesn’t hold is that
this is a vector in a one-dimensional space, and that (the marjority of)
people lie in roughly the same place. Actually, it’s a pretty
high-dimensional space, and people wind up all over the place in their
own
opinions.

Consider this in the context of politics. Many U.S. Republicans take a
stand attacking abortion, with greater or lesser levels of competence.
When
one of them says something particularly outlandish, it gets significant
negative publicity. Of course, to the Christian Right hardliners, that
negative publicity is positive since it aligns with their position. So
Congressman Yadda-Yadda gets pilloried in the press and meanwhile takes
in
$1.2 million in campaign donations from Christian fundamentalists in 72
hours.

McGovern isn’t interested in securing Ruby or RoR work, he is interested
in
“enterprise” work. It’s what he does. So if he can make a name for
himself
by attacking something that the typical “enterprise” has a low opinion
of,
his publicity is positive to the people he is trying to impress. He
wins.
It may seem underhanded (in general, I’d say attacking much of anything
is
underhanded, with the exception of constructive criticism), but it’s
effective. Refer to the political argument above.

–Greg


#18

On 01/05/06, Jason S. removed_email_address@domain.invalid wrote:

We all think McGovern’s a troll, and I agree, but the guy’s also a
marketing genius. Negative publicity is just as effective as good
publicity when trying to make a name for yourself.

Tell that to Michael J…


Rasputin :: Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns
http://number9.hellooperator.net/


#19

…again… he/she is a troll. :slight_smile:

seems he’s been around the block…

http://windows.ittoolbox.com/blogs/featuredentry.asp?i=6267&sp=CM

On May 1, 2006, at 3:05 AM, Trent S. wrote:

Well… Check this one out where he "puts his money where his
removed_email_address@domain.invalid
http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails

Robby R.
Founder & Executive Director

PLANET ARGON, LLC
Ruby on Rails Development, Consulting & Hosting


www.robbyonrails.com

+1 503 445 2457
+1 877 55 ARGON [toll free]
+1 815 642 4968 [fax]


#20

cdr wrote:

in case you thought ActiveRecord was actally useful:
http://www.dbdebunk.com/index.html

Is there supposed to be something about ActiveRecord on that page?

b