On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 23:31:21 -0600, Sanghyeon S. [email protected]
Just wondering, how true it sounds… I do not agree on many points.
Looking forward to read more comments on this.
It seems to be a rather good overview of the status to me. I mostly
agree, except for the accusation that “Microsoft would never back an
OSS web framework like Rails in preference to its own”.
Hmmm… I think that’s a pretty fair statement from Charlie. If I’m
understanding his point correctly, Microsoft will never turn away from
ASP.NET in favor or Rails, and instead will continue to push ASP.NET in
the various directions necessary to keep up with the trends (e.g.
MVC Framework.) They’ll certainly put the money into providing support
for Rails, whether that be through IronRuby, or directly through MRI via
the IIS7 FastCGI layer. But it will never become the [email protected]
should it. ASP.NET is a kick a$$ web application framework. And
regardless of the popularity of Rails in the OSS communities of the
it will be a VERY long time – if ever – before the installed Rails
developer base surpasses the installed ASP.NET developer base.
Plus, the installed ASP.NET developer base is actually willing to spend
money on development tools and related products, something the installed
Rails-base is only partially willing to do (e.g. TextMate). And, in the
end, it’s the products that find ways to generate revenue that continue
both survive and thrive. That’s not to suggest Rails isn’t going to
survive and/or thrive. The free-as-in-speech Rails project is funded by
the profit making 37 Signals and its various not-free-as-in-gasoline
products in the same way the free-as-in-beer .NET/ASP.NET/etc. projects
are funded by the profit making Microsoft and its various
not-free-as-in-gasoline products. And when you throw the
free-as-in-speech IronPython/IronRuby/DLR/ASP.NET MVC/etc. projects into
the mix, it’s tough to criticize MSFT’s intentions and contributions to
the OSS ecosystem.
Of course the Mono Project – which in and of itself provides not only
web framework support that Rails represents, but the entire language and
platform that MRI represents (and then some!) – represents a MASSIVE
OSS community that the Rails community pales in comparison to. So it’s
tough to take on any type of stance that suggests that .NET/ASP.NET and
related frameworks are the wrong overall direction for us developer
to be placing focus on, regardless of our preference towards OSS and
That said, I most definitely agree with Charlie’s thoughts regarding the
overall community collaboration and contributions as it relates to the
IronRuby project. But I’m less inclined to put the blame entirely on
MSFT’s shoulders. The door has certainly been open for the community to
contribute, and several folks have taken advantage of that. And John
company have certainly proven a willingness to rapidly inject the
contributions into the source tree as soon as these same contributions
seem viable enough to be injected into the source tree.
I don’t want to put the burden entirely on the communities shoulders,
there certainly needs to be at least some recognition to the fact that
this is a completely different situation than was JRuby when it came
the good graces of Sun. JRuby was a living, breathing, viable open
implementation of the Ruby language with a living, breathing, and active
OSS community backing it up long before Sun came into the picture. On
other hand, IronRuby was a resuscitated proof-of-concept project that
not even sure really ever saw the light of the OSS-day before being
brought into the MSFT fold. So while Charlie is correct: The IronRuby
project needs to become more community oriented, that community
orientation needs to come from not only MSFT’s direction, but the
communities direction as well.
M. David P.
Co-Founder & Chief Architect, 3rd&Urban, LLC
Email: [email protected] | [email protected]
Mobile: (206) 999-0588
http://3rdandUrban.com | http://amp.fm |