Re: Regarding IronRuby... How true it sounds from this blog

raker_t · April 28, 2008, 8:42pm

So, as the new guy on the other (MSFT) side of the fence, I am
interested in all of these suggestions and ideas. In addition, I have
some questions/suggestions for you.

Would mirroring our internal repo on a commit-by-commit basis help
with the repository issues? Would it help with the ownership feelings?
How can we be more transparent about what we are working on, and where
we are heading? A blog? A weekly posting?
Would mirroring the repo to other formats help? Would releasing alpha
binaries be worthwhile?

I’m new, but I want to help build a community, and show that this is a
real OSS project. So, I really appreciate the discource. I think that
these meta discussions are worthwhile in helping define the community.

Jim D.

raker_t · April 28, 2008, 8:54pm

Yes, Yes, Yes. Do it!

Specifically, mirroring the repo would help. Using rubyforge has
the main repo would be better.

A blog would be fantastic, though most of the “core” team already have
blogs… still an official IronRuby blog will regular updates would be
awesome.

Alpha binaries always encourage people to at least download and try it
out. Some projects use this crazy thing called daily builds…

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Jim D. [email protected]
wrote:

binaries be worthwhile?
Sent: 4/28/08 10:05 AM
something that has already been addressed.
people in a “what can I do to contribute value to the project” mode.

While meta-level discussions are interesting, they generally don’t offer

[email protected]
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core

–
Michael L.
[Polymath Prokrammer]
http://blog.prokrams.com

raker_t · April 28, 2008, 9:49pm

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:41:02 -0600, Jim D. [email protected]
wrote:

So, as the new guy on the other (MSFT) side of the fence,

Welcome, Jim!

I am interested in all of these suggestions and ideas.

Great!

In addition, I have some questions/suggestions for you.

Would mirroring our internal repo on a commit-by-commit basis help
with the repository issues?

Depends on which issues you are referring to, though I can’t imagine it
would hurt any of the issues, and will certainly help with many, if not
all of them.

Would it help with the ownership feelings?

Yes, especially if the external repository was seen as the master
repository with daily, hourly, or per-commit syncs with the internal
MSFT
repository, not vice-versa.

How can we be more transparent about what we are working on, and where
we are heading? A blog? A weekly posting?

This is always going to be somewhat of a gray area due to the fact that
there will always be things (e.g. new features un-related to the Ruby
language, related products such as development tools, DLR-specific
extensions, Silverlight, etc.) that the powers that be @ MSFT will not
want exposed to the outside community and/or given to the community to
control. These are both fair and understood concerns, but I believe
easy
enough to work around. In this regard, if a line in the sand could be
drawn that stated something like,

The community owns the Ruby implementation as it relates to the
external specs and existing Ruby applications.
MSFT owns the rest.

And the community was then given control – with John and associates
leading the way, of course – of pushing forward the portion of the
repository they were in control of, I believe we would all be in the
exact
position we’ve been jockeying for, that of controlling each of our
destinies and primary areas of drive and interest.

Would mirroring the repo to other formats help? Would releasing alpha
binaries be worthwhile?

I think a per-check-in build process monitored and implemented by
something similar to CruiseControl.NET would be ideal. This would
ensure
that the state of the repository at any given time was well understoood,
providing access to the resulting binaries with each new build for
further
analysis and testing by anyone who felts so inclined to access the
binaries and begin running tests against them. In this regard, it would
be great to implement and Atom-based subscription service for keeping
a
local cache of binaries up-to-date with the repository head. In fact,
I’ll write that service if enough interest exists in having access to
just
such a service.

I’m new, but I want to help build a community, and show that this is a
real OSS project. So, I really appreciate the discource. I think that
these meta discussions are worthwhile in helping define the community.

Agreed. Looking forward to see what you are able to make of all this!
And thanks!

–
/M:D

M. David P.
Co-Founder & Chief Architect, 3rd&Urban, LLC
Email: [email protected] | [email protected]
Mobile: (206) 999-0588
http://3rdandUrban.com | http://amp.fm |
M. David Peterson

raker_t · April 28, 2008, 9:58pm

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:53:55 -0600, Michael L.
[email protected] wrote:

still an official IronRuby blog will regular updates would be
awesome.

Not sure what legal barriers, if any, might stand in the way of using
the
existing ironruby.net domain to host a community-driven blog, but if
they
do exist yet could somehow be overcome, that would be ideal.

–
/M:D

M. David P.
Co-Founder & Chief Architect, 3rd&Urban, LLC
Email: [email protected] | [email protected]
Mobile: (206) 999-0588
http://3rdandUrban.com | http://amp.fm |
M. David Peterson

raker_t · April 28, 2008, 10:36pm

+1 for commit by commit mirror or using (even better) using rubyforge as
primary and mirroring it back to TFS.

+1 for daily builds (preferably automated so that no one has to spend
much time on it)

I honestly think that until it is primarily hosted at rubyforge, people
will complain that the project isn’t “open enough.” That definitely
won’t quiet down everyone, but it would make great strides towards it.
But, it may simply be too early to do so since the DLR is still
evolving.

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jim D.
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Ironruby-core] Regarding IronRuby… How true it
soundsfrom this blog

So, as the new guy on the other (MSFT) side of the fence, I am
interested in all of these suggestions and ideas. In addition, I have
some questions/suggestions for you.

Would mirroring our internal repo on a commit-by-commit basis help
with the repository issues? Would it help with the ownership feelings?
How can we be more transparent about what we are working on, and where
we are heading? A blog? A weekly posting?
Would mirroring the repo to other formats help? Would releasing alpha
binaries be worthwhile?

I’m new, but I want to help build a community, and show that this is a
real OSS project. So, I really appreciate the discource. I think that
these meta discussions are worthwhile in helping define the community.

Jim D.

raker_t · April 29, 2008, 1:49am

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:57:21 -0600, “M. David P.”
[email protected] wrote:

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:53:55 -0600, Michael L.
[email protected] wrote:

still an official IronRuby blog will regular updates would be
awesome.

Not sure what legal barriers, if any, might stand in the way of using the
existing ironruby.net domain to host a community-driven blog, but if they
do exist yet could somehow be overcome, that would be ideal.

A Planet Venus instance set up on planet.ironruby.net might be
appropriate.

-mental

raker_t · April 29, 2008, 2:16am

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:48:38 -0600, MenTaLguY [email protected] wrote:

A Planet Venus instance set up on planet.ironruby.net might be
appropriate.

I had one set-up at planet.rubyon.net but them phukt things up when I
added elastic IP’s to the various EC2 instances I had running which now
points that same domain to the wrong server.

I’ll get that fixed later this evening, but regardless, I do agree that
a
planet-style approach is the right overall approach.

–
/M:D

M. David P.
Co-Founder & Chief Architect, 3rd&Urban, LLC
Email: [email protected] | [email protected]
Mobile: (206) 999-0588
http://3rdandUrban.com | http://amp.fm |
M. David Peterson

raker_t · April 28, 2008, 11:16pm

Would mirroring our internal repo on a commit-by-commit basis help with the repository issues? Would it help with the ownership feelings?

I think it would help for sure.

How can we be more transparent about what we are working on, and where we are heading? A blog? A weekly posting?

I’m not as concerned with the medium of the information (blog, this
mailing list, wiki) as long as the community has access to the
information.
A daily or weekly or as often as possible scrum like status update that
the
community would be able to see would be cool.

What did you work on since the last update
What will you be working on until the next scheduled update
What’s getting in the way of progress

This would provide the benefit of letting people have a glimpse of where
the
team is focusing their attention, as well as potential areas that they
could
lend a hand. As an example, if Tomas says he’s working on X, but the
fact
that Y isn’t done yet is making it a little more difficult, and he also
makes it clear that Y isn’t something he or anyone else is going to be
able
to get to in the near future Y could be something the community tries to
lend a hand with. I could see someone like Wayne doing a similar status
since at least from the sounds of it he’s trying to spearhead some of
the
work on ruby gems + rails.

Would mirroring the repo to other formats help? Would releasing alpha binaries be worthwhile?

<warning_thinking_out loud_without_giving_it_much_thought>
Conceptually a git like repo seems like it would offer some interesting
advantages. I’m a git newbie, but from what I’ve heard and read it
really
encourages people to fork projects and play around with different ideas.
Currently, I can’t see what anyone else in the community is working on,
let
alone the IronRuby team itself. I think in order to foster a real
community around IronRuby we need to not only make the ironRuby team
itself
more transparent, but increase the transparency of the community as a
whole. Perhaps IronRuby should jump on the github bandwagon?
</warning_thinking_out_loud_without_giving_it_much_thought>

I’m new, but I want to help build a community, and show that this is a real OSS project. So, I really appreciate the discource. I think that these meta discussions are worthwhile in helping define the community.

I’m new (on the opposite side) and feel the same way.

Cheers,
Steve

raker_t · April 29, 2008, 3:55pm

Steve E.:

What’s getting in the way of progress
This is an excellent idea - would folks prefer a Monday or a Friday
update?

</warning_thinking_out_loud_without_giving_it_much_thought>
The nice thing about GIT is that you can use they’re GIT->SVN bridge and
work in a GIT repro on your own box while syncing changes to SVN. So
there’s nothing stopping you from using GIT today if you want …

Thanks,
-John

raker_t · April 29, 2008, 4:16pm

John L. (IRONRUBY) wrote:

The nice thing about GIT is that you can use they’re GIT->SVN bridge and work in a GIT repro on your own box while syncing changes to SVN. So there’s nothing stopping you from using GIT today if you want …

I’ve been using git-svn for a while now, and it’s pretty nice. I’m not
using the branching all that much (don’t like having long periods of
work live only on my machine) but the local committing is oddly
satisfying.

Charlie

raker_t · April 29, 2008, 2:22am

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:48:38 -0600, MenTaLguY [email protected] wrote:

A Planet Venus

BTW… Wouldn’t it be the right thing to do to get Planet Mars running
instead of Planet Venus? > Index of /code/mars

–
/M:D

M. David P.
Co-Founder & Chief Architect, 3rd&Urban, LLC
Email: [email protected] | [email protected]
Mobile: (206) 999-0588
http://3rdandUrban.com | http://amp.fm |
M. David Peterson

raker_t · April 29, 2008, 5:08pm

What did you work on since the last update
What will you be working on until the next scheduled update
What’s getting in the way of progress

This is an excellent idea - would folks prefer a Monday or a Friday
update?

I don’t have a strong preference but I think I’d vote for a Monday
update.

jump on the github bandwagon?
</warning_thinking_out_loud_without_giving_it_much_thought>

The nice thing about GIT is that you can use they’re GIT->SVN bridge and
work in a GIT repro on your own box while syncing changes to SVN. So there’s
nothing stopping you from using GIT today if you want …

I’ve been thinking about this. One of the things that triggered this
thought is some things I’ve seen going on in the Rails community. It
seems
like a lot of people are forking the master to work on ideas. Since
they’re
using github, everyone can see the forks that are out there and see what
people are working on, as well as checkout the actual code they’re
committing. It would be cool to be able to see what the various
community
members are working on, pull in their changes, and etc.

Cheers,
Steve

raker_t · April 29, 2008, 5:37pm

Agreed. On my last project I was using git-svn for everything except for
merging across SVN branches. Did that for months and loved it! Man I
miss stash

JD

raker_t · April 29, 2008, 11:17pm

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:53:29 -0600, John L. (IRONRUBY)
[email protected] wrote:

Friday update?

+1: Gives us something to hack on over the weekend.

–
/M:D

M. David P.
Co-Founder & Chief Architect, 3rd&Urban, LLC
Email: [email protected] | [email protected]
Mobile: (206) 999-0588
http://3rdandUrban.com | http://amp.fm |
M. David Peterson