Re: Potential Brit ruby meeting formally Chunky Bacon

Getting a good group now!

The next questions are: when where and how?!

There seem to be a few communities on the go in the UK already. Might be
worth having our own Brit Ruby Conference, like the US version but with
rain rather than snow!

This could go into a lot of discussion…

Gem

On 26/10/06, Cameron, Gemma (UK) [email protected] wrote:

There seem to be a few communities on the go in the UK already. Might be
worth having our own Brit Ruby Conference, like the US version but with
rain rather than snow!

Britain tends to end up as part of the European Ruby scene right now
(which is no bad thing). Euruko is next weekend in Germany, and is
dirt cheap (and might still be taking places if you fancy a jaunt
east); RailsConf Europe was in London six/seven weeks ago (but
RailsConf Europe 2007 will be in Germany).

Just to point out that there is stuff happening already in this
country.

On 26 Oct 2006, at 15:44, Cameron, Gemma (UK) wrote:

Getting a good group now!

Well, half a dozen or so, at least.

The next questions are: when where and how?!

Make it UnConf-style (i.e. no programme, everybody turning up should
be able to do a session), somewhere cheap and central (my vote goes
for Manchester).

There seem to be a few communities on the go in the UK already.
Might be
worth having our own Brit Ruby Conference, like the US version but
with
rain rather than snow!

And less money required to attend.

This could go into a lot of discussion…

Let’s bikeshed[*] it to death quickly and then get on with it then. I
reckon next spring is possible without too much effort.

[*] - http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/
misc.html#BIKESHED-PAINTING

On 26 Oct 2006, at 16:49, Tom A. wrote:

dirt cheap (and might still be taking places if you fancy a jaunt
east); RailsConf Europe was in London six/seven weeks ago (but
RailsConf Europe 2007 will be in Germany).

Just to point out that there is stuff happening already in this
country.

There’s no real reason that the UK should be tacked on to Europe,
community-wise, and improving the local community has to be a good
thing, not a bad one.

The London Ruby group seems to be very much a stealth group. If
newcomers to the community aren’t aware of it (and it took me more
than 6 months before I heard about it), then there’s room for a more
public forum. RailsConf, on the other hand, was reasonably well
publicised.

Paul

On 26/10/06, Paul L. [email protected] wrote:

There’s no real reason that the UK should be tacked on to Europe,
community-wise, and improving the local community has to be a good
thing, not a bad one.

No, I know there’s no “real” reason, apart from numbers, which is
why it’s sometimes more feasible to band together into a large enough
number.

The London Ruby group seems to be very much a stealth group. If
newcomers to the community aren’t aware of it (and it took me more
than 6 months before I heard about it), then there’s room for a more
public forum. RailsConf, on the other hand, was reasonably well
publicised.

Well, the London Ruby Group is only of relevance to people in/near
London, TBH. It’s very much not a stealth group, though; it mentions
its existence here and it has very vocal members of the community. It
also has a few long-standing members of the Ruby community within
it. They are very much not stealth, either.

I’m just trying to point out that the best course of action as a
newbie is not to go “hey, let’s have a conference, who here does
Ruby?” but rather to poke around for larger organisations such as
Geekup, LRUG, etc, who might be able to offer
advice/expertise/contacts/resources to make a really kickass
conference, rather than just a bunch of people loosely throwing things
together.

(For instance: LRUG has a very good relationship with Skillsmatter,
who ran the events side of things at RailsconfEurope (along with
RubyCentral) and offer us a room each month. They’re nice, and they
have good facilities).

This does not mean such an event can’t be thrown together quickly and
affordably and without hassle, it’s just prudent to look for peers
rather than assume you’re the only people interested in doing stuff.

It’s not a case of raining on parades or treading on toes. It’s just
advice, and it’s frustrating people charging into things.

t.

On Fri, 2006-10-27 at 00:49 +0900, Tom A. wrote:

RailsConf Europe 2007 will be in Germany).

Just to point out that there is stuff happening already in this country.

It’s no bad thing, but it’s no great thing either - I can’t do
international travel anywhere nearly as easily as I can travel within
the UK, and RailsConf doesn’t really float my boat, being a
mostly-non-railser. It would be really cool to have something (probably
more informal than Rubyconf) here in the UK.

My vote would be for either Nottingham or Manchester, not only because
they’re fairly central, but also because I’m pretty much already
there :->

On 26 Oct 2006, at 17:53, Tom A. wrote:

also has a few long-standing members of the Ruby community within
it. They are very much not stealth, either.

Let’s just say that LRUG doesn’t advertise its existence on this
list. I didn’t remember any posts, apart from a parenthetical
mention relating to RailsConf last month, which might have been on
the Rails list - and a search showed the most recent announcement was
in November 2005. Take that as a hint that this could be improved.

it’s just prudent to look for peers rather than assume you’re the
only people interested in doing stuff.

I thought that’s what they were doing; one has to start somewhere.

It’s not a case of raining on parades or treading on toes. It’s just
advice, and it’s frustrating people charging into things.

OK, it just came across to me that way.

Paul

Cameron, Gemma (UK) wrote:

Getting a good group now!

The next questions are: when where and how?!

There seem to be a few communities on the go in the UK already. Might be
worth having our own Brit Ruby Conference, like the US version but with
rain rather than snow!

This could go into a lot of discussion…

I suggest you all join me in Munich for Euruko 2006
next week… the UK and Germany aren’t all that far
apart… :wink:

Hal

On 26 Oct 2006, at 17:53, Tom A. wrote:

I’m just trying to point out that the best course of action as a
newbie is not to go “hey, let’s have a conference, who here does
Ruby?” but rather to poke around for larger organisations such as
Geekup, LRUG, etc, who might be able to offer
advice/expertise/contacts/resources to make a really kickass
conference, rather than just a bunch of people loosely throwing things
together.

Tom, you completely miss the point. What’s more, you’re kind of being
a bit rude whilst you do it. Please take the rest of this mail in the
gentle spirit in which it is intended.

The simple truth is, meetings in the UK aren’t easy for newbs to
find. There aren’t very many meetings anyway. What meetings there
are, don’t appeal to 80% of the community - they feel very ‘cliquey’
and ‘elitist’ to newbies. You certainly aren’t doing much here to
betray the opinion that they might not be very newbie-friendly. You
make the community come across as almost hostile.

And anyway, an over-priced Rails conference six weeks ago is not the
same as a cheap Ruby meeting next year. A meeting in Germany is not a
UK meeting. An LRUG is not the same as a UK meeting.

She wanted a cheap UK Ruby meeting.

There isn’t one.

She offered to sort it out for us.

You told her off.

You suck. :slight_smile:

If LRUG wants to offer a UK meeting, they should, but they’re not, so
if Gemma wants to, why should anybody get in her way? I feel that
you’re belittling and patronising somebody who is trying to bring us
together as a community.

I don’t care if she’s a newbie. She was trying to do something for
the good of us all. Telling her off doesn’t help us, her, or you. It
just makes you - and the rest of us who have been knocking around for
a while - look mean.

This does not mean such an event can’t be thrown together quickly and
affordably and without hassle, it’s just prudent to look for peers
rather than assume you’re the only people interested in doing stuff.

Look at the list of people on this thread who said “I’m in”, and ask
yourself why they aren’t attending LRUG or Euroko.

I have no doubt LRUG is good at what it does. I have no doubt GeekUp
is good at what it does. Had you thought maybe there is room for
something different? Something fresh and new that might be to the
benefit of us all?

There are no formal communication channels within the Ruby community,
outside of Matz accepting changes to the language.

There is no need to look for peers for approval.

If somebody wants to do something, they get to do it, and they
deserve our unequivocal support for trying.

If nobody shows up, well, hey-ho. C’est la vie.

They should never, EVER feel they have to ask you or anybody else for
what feels like ‘permission’.

You effectively chastised her for fuck’s sake.

I’m sad about that. Really, really sad. And angry. :frowning:

It’s not a case of raining on parades or treading on toes. It’s just
advice, and it’s frustrating people charging into things.

It’s even more frustrating when I see mean people patronising a newb
who is so enthusiastic, she wants to do something that benefits all
of us.

Now she won’t feel she can. A whole new opportunity for us all has
been lost because you decided to vent.

It’s easy to say “No, don’t, because this thing exists and you should
like it, god damn you”, and much harder to say “sure, this thing is
here, that thing is there, they might help, but if you want to do
something else, we’ll try and show up”.

Do the hard thing Tom, and stop saying things that make you sound
like a jerk.

I know you’re not a jerk, but you kind of sound like one, here.

Kind of. In a way. But not horrendously so.

It’s like this is trying to be the Perl or PHP community. We don’t
want it to be like that. Please let us get on with having fun.

I hope you don’t feel like I’m being horrible, but it had to be said,
and nobody else was stepping up to the plate.

Gemma: go for it. I’ll show up if I can. I’ll help if I can. Other
people will to. You don’t need to ask for permission, or look at what
already exists. People on this thread are saying yes, because they
don’t like what is already on offer. There is no clique, core, or
group you have to ask permission of. Anybody who tells you there is,
or pretends there is, isn’t one of the rest of us. Don’t listen.

@thread.responders.uniq.each { |possible_attendee|
AddressBook << possible_attendee
unless clique_members.include? possible_attendee
possible_attendee.invite :possible_date => next_year
end
}
@thread.close

Respect Tom, regardless, no hard feelings,

Paul

Hi –

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006, Paul L. wrote:

London, TBH. It’s very much not a stealth group, though; it mentions
its existence here and it has very vocal members of the community. It
also has a few long-standing members of the Ruby community within
it. They are very much not stealth, either.

Let’s just say that LRUG doesn’t advertise its existence on this list.

I don’t think most local/regional RUGs do. There’s a wiki page for
them on Ruby Garden, though I don’t think it’s very up to date.

David

Hi –

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006, Thomas A. wrote:

had to date only one person contact me with a specific interest in
starting a RUG. But he hasn’t replied back to me in over five months.

I live between New York and Philadelphia, both of which have very
active Ruby and/or Rails groups. I’ve been to meetings of both and
they’re great – but I’ve also thought about having a New Jersey (my
state) group, and talked to some people about it. It’s difficult,
because some people in NJ live as far from anywhere we’d meet as
others do from NY or Philly. I live just far enough from both to make
it non-easy to get to meetings.

– Thomas A.
Any relation to James? :slight_smile:

David

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 22:01:25 +0900
[email protected] wrote:

I live between New York and Philadelphia, both of which have very
active Ruby and/or Rails groups. I’ve been to meetings of both and
they’re great – but I’ve also thought about having a New Jersey (my
state) group, and talked to some people about it. It’s difficult,
because some people in NJ live as far from anywhere we’d meet as
others do from NY or Philly. I live just far enough from both to make
it non-easy to get to meetings.

Given the geography of America I can imagine how the distance might be
slightly more a hinderance, but then again, there’s bound to be more
people in any one area which makes things like meetings worthwhile.
The demography here tends to be more sparse which makes things like
meetings on a smaller scale very difficult to maintain and/or start
unless there’s a high enough interest already. :slight_smile:

Any relation to James? :slight_smile:

Hmm?

– Thomas A.

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 21:39:48 +0900
[email protected] wrote:

I don’t think most local/regional RUGs do. There’s a wiki page for
them on Ruby Garden, though I don’t think it’s very up to date.

The one I maintain there is. The problem with any regional group
gathering with a special interest to it, such as Ruby, is that for some
areas there are not many people at all. This is something that I am
experiencing at the moment where I happen to live in the UK. I have
had to date only one person contact me with a specific interest in
starting a RUG. But he hasn’t replied back to me in over five months.

What tends to happen (and is much more likely) is that interest in a
particular aspect of programming stems from more generalised meetings
such as LUGs – but the problem then is maintaining interest. I have
seen a few people express an interest in $FOO with a verbal intent of
carrying it forward only to have them back out for no other reason
other than a loss of interest; which is paradoxically annoying.

So I am but a lone Ruby programmer. I might look at joining the London
group but London is many miles from where I happen to live.

– Thomas A.

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 22:11:01 +0900
[email protected] wrote:

James A., a member and organizer of LRUG.

Nope, no relation. :slight_smile: I do get called ‘Adam Thomas’ a lot, and I am
not related to him, either. :stuck_out_tongue: My parents had an odd sense of humour
giving me a name with two forenames essentially.

– Thomas A.

Hi –

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006, Thomas A. wrote:

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 22:01:25 +0900
[email protected] wrote:

Any relation to James? :slight_smile:

Hmm?

James A., a member and organizer of LRUG.

David

On 10/27/06, Thomas A. [email protected] wrote:

James A., a member and organizer of LRUG.

Nope, no relation. :slight_smile: I do get called ‘Adam Thomas’ a lot, and I am
not related to him, either. :stuck_out_tongue: My parents had an odd sense of humour
giving me a name with two forenames essentially.

Ditto. It’s a pain.

On 10/27/06, [email protected] wrote:

I don’t think most local/regional RUGs do.
Paul, thanks for the feedback. As the main convenor of the London Ruby
User Group, I feel responsible if people in London aren’t finding out
about us or don’t find the meetings fun! I’ve posted next meeting’s
details to ruby-talk:
http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/222246

All are welcome to come to meetings when in London! We are a friendly
bunch, and open to evolving in an agile manner. Based on this
ruby-talk thread, we’ve been debating on our lrug mailing list how to
be more friendly (http://lists.lrug.org/listinfo.cgi/chat-lrug.org).
We’re going to put up links to our member’s blogs from the LRUG site
to show our friendly faces - that’ll be there next week.

We’ve being growing LRUG organically. The group started as a pub
meeting whenever David Black was passing through. Thanks to a great
bunch of local Rubyists and the enthusiasm of Tiest Villee when he got
back from RubyConf 2005, we started running monthly meetings with
presentions last year. More recently our group has benefited from our
friends Skills Matter (http://skillsmatter.com) donating meeting space
and event sponsorship. If you search for “ruby user group” or “london
ruby” we’re on the first page of results, thanks to James A., who
set up our website (http://lrug.org). So hopefully we’re not too hard
to find these days. :slight_smile:

cheers,
Rob McKinnon

In message
[email protected], James
Adam [email protected] writes

On 10/27/06, Thomas A. [email protected] wrote:

James A., a member and organizer of LRUG.

Nope, no relation. :slight_smile: I do get called ‘Adam Thomas’ a lot, and I am
not related to him, either. :stuck_out_tongue: My parents had an odd sense of humour
giving me a name with two forenames essentially.

Ditto. It’s a pain.

Parents. :~) One dear chap I saw on the train recently had his initials
on his case. They were A.N.D.

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