On Mon, Jul 16, 2007 at 07:37:17AM +0900, Joe W. wrote:
Yeah, I’m gunna mess around with RPG maker for laughs. Its not the best
thing I’v ever used, but I need something to do until Yahoo works again.
I’ll be sure to inform you when I have created something even mildly
unique.
Perhaps this would be more useful, then:
On Jul 15, 2007, at 4:24 PM, Joe W. wrote:
Well ya
know what? I found a much funner thing that is so much better than
Ruby.(in my opinion of course).
Just for the sake of the archives, you can play with Logo like
environments using our favorite gal Ruby:
http://www.rubyquiz.com/quiz104.html
James Edward G. II
Chad P. wrote:
On Mon, Jul 16, 2007 at 07:37:17AM +0900, Joe W. wrote:
Yeah, I’m gunna mess around with RPG maker for laughs. Its not the best
thing I’v ever used, but I need something to do until Yahoo works again.
I’ll be sure to inform you when I have created something even mildly
unique.Perhaps this would be more useful, then:
For one thing, I’m not using RPG maker 1. Im using XP. So your link is
useless. For another, I don’t need a forum about RPG maker. Im perfectly
content with making my own stupid RPG game. And for another, your post
was sort of off topic in my little conversation about hyperbole.
On Mon, Jul 16, 2007 at 06:29:22AM +0900, Peter S. wrote:
make something, but I don’t.
Hyperbolic language is often considered a sign of trolling. I would have
suggested you stick with simple programs for, you know, a few DAYS, but
actually stick to 'em until you understand what’s going on.
More to the point, posting to a list dedicated to a specific subject
about how stupid that subject is, and how much better other subjects
are,
is very indicative of trolling. That applies here, with comments
about
how Ruby isn’t any good but Java (of all things) is so much better,
especially for someone new to programming.
Many of us would still be waiting if we were gonna wait 40 years to make
something. I’m not even 40 yet.
I suppose I should stop writing code. My forty years haven’t passed yet
either.
Good luck with your programming, but if you’re not doing Ruby, could you
maybe, you know, ask about it elsewhere? If you decide to do C, there’s
comp.lang.c and comp.lang.c.moderated, open for asking questions. I’m sure
there’s Logo groups, and there’s TONS of Java groups.
There’s at least one for Logo. I was on that list once upon a time. It
didn’t really suit my needs, though.
In message [email protected], Joe
Wiltrout writes:
Not really. People told me to run basic programs like Hello World for a
few months.
Not “exactly the same thing over and over”. Just simple stuff, work
your way
up, learn your way around.
No one suggested you should keep doing exactly the same thing over and
over.
-s
Chad P. wrote:
On Mon, Jul 16, 2007 at 06:29:22AM +0900, Peter S. wrote:
make something, but I don’t.
Hyperbolic language is often considered a sign of trolling. I would have
suggested you stick with simple programs for, you know, a few DAYS, but
actually stick to 'em until you understand what’s going on.More to the point, posting to a list dedicated to a specific subject
about how stupid that subject is, and how much better other subjects
are,
is very indicative of trolling. That applies here, with comments
about
how Ruby isn’t any good but Java (of all things) is so much better,
especially for someone new to programming.Many of us would still be waiting if we were gonna wait 40 years to make
something. I’m not even 40 yet.I suppose I should stop writing code. My forty years haven’t passed yet
either.
According to your ‘trolling’ stuff, it is basicly flame bait. And what I
posted, which may look like flame bait to yall, only originally asked
for a bit of help. But then I told you guys I wanted to know how to
start making the actual game, rather than just how to start programming.
And yall are like ‘NO! YOU HAVE TO DO THE HELLO WORLD 250000 TIMES
BEFORE YOU LEARN TO PROGRAM!’(not hyperbole, i did the math) And then I
tried to tell you this multiple times. But yall started getting all like
‘YOUR A BAD STUDENT!’ and ‘YOU REFUSE TO LEARN! YOU WANT TO CLIMB
EVEREST BEFORE YOU CAN WALK!’ etc. But I’m still all like ‘I want to
know how to start the game making, not how to begin programming all this
basic crap’ and thats when I started getting pissed. So now I’m sitting
here, being my normal, arguement starting self, unintetionally this
time. In the religion thread I enjoyed arguement for the sake of
arguement. but then all this hatred from you guys flowed over there too.
Its like whenever I post, you guys are ravens, and then here comes a
tiger. Tiger kills innocent post, tiger eats part, ravens fly in and eat
the rest. No matter where it is. Even if its only mildly related.
Many of us would still be waiting if we were gonna wait 40 years to make
something. I’m not even 40 yet.I suppose I should stop writing code. My forty years haven’t passed yet
either.
Hate to break it to you, but that was exageration. Yall said varying
answers from 5-6 to 10 years. I have friends who learned to program from
scratch in 6 months flat. Making games on the Gamebryo Engine and C++,
all that good stuff. If yall don’t know what the Gamebryo Engine is,
smoke some of the stuff ur giving out. 1.) Google it! 2.) Wiki it. 3.)
Ask me and await my unhelpful response. 4.) Ask your ‘busy’ people and
friends. 5.) Go write Gamebryo Engine on the whiteboard 256650 times.
Then you will know what it is.
unknown wrote:
In message [email protected], Joe
Wiltrout writes:Not really. People told me to run basic programs like Hello World for a
few months.Not “exactly the same thing over and over”. Just simple stuff, work
your way
up, learn your way around.No one suggested you should keep doing exactly the same thing over and
over.-s
Give me 10 examples of these ‘basic programs’. Either way, people still
told me to write them for a few months. so its still like 250 thousand
times. Estimate* Probably not exact, but close.
Joe W. wrote:
Hate to break it to you, but that was exageration. Yall said varying
answers from 5-6 to 10 years. I have friends who learned to program from
scratch in 6 months flat. Making games on the Gamebryo Engine and C++,
all that good stuff. If yall don’t know what the Gamebryo Engine is,
smoke some of the stuff ur giving out. 1.) Google it! 2.) Wiki it. 3.)
Ask me and await my unhelpful response. 4.) Ask your ‘busy’ people and
friends. 5.) Go write Gamebryo Engine on the whiteboard 256650 times.
Then you will know what it is.
You indeed need serious help.
But not for coding, for your social skills.
You just singlehandedly managed to turn about 20 people who were willing
to help you against you. Quite an achievement. I hope you have more luck
(or maybe just manners/patience?) in the java/logo communities.
Regards
Stefan
Joe W. wrote:
Many of us would still be waiting if we were gonna wait 40 years to make
something. I’m not even 40 yet.
I suppose I should stop writing code. My forty years haven’t passed yet
either.Hate to break it to you, but that was exageration. Yall said varying
answers from 5-6 to 10 years. I have friends who learned to program from
scratch in 6 months flat. Making games on the Gamebryo Engine and C++,
all that good stuff.
One thing that is lacking here is the fact that programming/coding is
only (or at least should only) be about 10-20% of the total time you
spend on any project. The rest should be planning. Coding is the easy
part. Coming up with the proper use cases, Object structures, flow
charts, etc is the hard part. This is the part that takes literally a
decade or so of experience to learn. (Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have
this experience, I just see see the people with the experience every
day)
In my Principles of Programming Languages class we crash-coursed about a
dozen languages of all types, and after that I’ve learned to pick up new
languages very quickly. But that doesn’t mean, by any stretch of the
imagination, that I could write good, well written software in any of
them. I can get by in all of them, but I’m only fluent in a handful.
–
Travis W.
“Programming in Java is like dealing with your mom –
it’s kind, forgiving, and gently chastising.
Programming in C++ is like dealing with a disgruntled
girlfriend – it’s cold, unforgiving, and doesn’t tell
you what you’ve done wrong.”
Stefan R. wrote:
Joe W. wrote:
Hate to break it to you, but that was exageration. Yall said varying
answers from 5-6 to 10 years. I have friends who learned to program from
scratch in 6 months flat. Making games on the Gamebryo Engine and C++,
all that good stuff. If yall don’t know what the Gamebryo Engine is,
smoke some of the stuff ur giving out. 1.) Google it! 2.) Wiki it. 3.)
Ask me and await my unhelpful response. 4.) Ask your ‘busy’ people and
friends. 5.) Go write Gamebryo Engine on the whiteboard 256650 times.
Then you will know what it is.You indeed need serious help.
But not for coding, for your social skills.
You just singlehandedly managed to turn about 20 people who were willing
to help you against you. Quite an achievement. I hope you have more luck
(or maybe just manners/patience?) in the java/logo communities.Regards
Stefan
Ahh. The sour sound of stupid people. The people who responded (with the
exception of Aur, who suggested the Logo language to me) did not listen.
I asked for help on how to start making a very simple game. Not advice
on how to start programming. And, unlike most of these programmers, I
only have programming as something I want to do for fun. I know most of
you are getting paid to program or w/e, but I’m not. I really just want
to have fun. And puts(‘hello world!’) over and over again is not fun. I
decided to screw Why’s guide, and I just read the comics and sidebars
unrelated to programming. Would have been a good book if he left out the
programming.
In message [email protected], Joe
Wiltrout writes:
Give me 10 examples of these ‘basic programs’. Either way, people still
told me to write them for a few months. so its still like 250 thousand
times. Estimate* Probably not exact, but close.
What you seem to be not understanding is that they GET MORE COMPLICATED.
So, we start with hello world:
puts “hello, world!”
Then we make it ask the user’s name:
name = gets.chomp
puts “hello, #{name}!”
By the end of that “few months”, your idea of a basic or simple program
might be something which tries to carry on a simple conversation, or
which
draws maps, or produces web pages, or whatever else interests you.
Around that time is when you start being well-prepared to actually
tackle
a project the size of an interesting video game.
-s
Let’s recap a moment 
Joe wants to build interesting games, he wants to program them.
Matthew’s example with aa, bb as location names was beyond Joe…
he is concerned he’s stuck with those names…
JOE THAT’S WHY YOU NEED TO STUDY SO YOU DON’T ASK THINGS LIKE
THAT–YOU’D
KNOW ALREADY
Joe doesn’t know what hyperbole is—and what’s worse attempts to defend
that he is right based on some complex mathematics of how many times he
could
write Hello world…
JOE THE POINT WAS NOT TO DO THE SAME STUPID THING MANY TIMES BUT TO
EXPLORE
MANY DIFFERENT BASICS SO YOU UNDERSTAND…
Joe can’t make yahoo work—so he’s stumped (yea, like I’m sure it’s
Yahoo
that is having a brain fart–not our indigent ignoramous)
AND YES JOE YOU WERE BEING CALLED A TROLL
AND JOE–YOU WERE THE SWINE, they cast the pearls…
and Joe, learn to spell–Alliance…
So—Joe–you are way beyond pointless at this point.
I wish you well with LOGO (Trying to explain how you making shapes in
Logo
is so orthogonal to what you say you want to do would be pointless at
this
point in your understanding of the world and what you have set yourself
for
a task, so I won’t bother)
GO READ
GO STUDY
Come back when you are wiser in the ways of programming, games, and
social
skills.
Begone.
Travis D Warlick Jr wrote:
Joe W. wrote:
Many of us would still be waiting if we were gonna wait 40 years to make
something. I’m not even 40 yet.
I suppose I should stop writing code. My forty years haven’t passed yet
either.Hate to break it to you, but that was exageration. Yall said varying
answers from 5-6 to 10 years. I have friends who learned to program from
scratch in 6 months flat. Making games on the Gamebryo Engine and C++,
all that good stuff.One thing that is lacking here is the fact that programming/coding is
only (or at least should only) be about 10-20% of the total time you
spend on any project. The rest should be planning. Coding is the easy
part. Coming up with the proper use cases, Object structures, flow
charts, etc is the hard part. This is the part that takes literally a
decade or so of experience to learn. (Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have
this experience, I just see see the people with the experience every
day)
… I have the entire game planned out. And I consider all this proper
use cases etc, coding and programming. If it involves programming, its
in the programming catagory. Therefore coding/programming is really
about 90% of it. 9 is the idea itself. And the remaining .5% is where to
get the coffee and donuts.
In my Principles of Programming Languages class we crash-coursed about a
dozen languages of all types, and after that I’ve learned to pick up new
languages very quickly. But that doesn’t mean, by any stretch of the
imagination, that I could write good, well written software in any of
them. I can get by in all of them, but I’m only fluent in a handful.–
Travis W.“Programming in Java is like dealing with your mom –
it’s kind, forgiving, and gently chastising.
Programming in C++ is like dealing with a disgruntled
girlfriend – it’s cold, unforgiving, and doesn’t tell
you what you’ve done wrong.”
Joe W. wrote:
Thanks for proving my point. I understand that you’re a teenager, so
probably you just never learned how to behave, so I’m not going to blame
you.
Stefan R. wrote:
You indeed need serious help.
But not for coding, for your social skills.
You just singlehandedly managed to turn about 20 people who were willing
to help you against you. Quite an achievement. I hope you have more luck
(or maybe just manners/patience?) in the java/logo communities.
Ahh. The sour sound of stupid people.
Ok, see, what’s that supposed to achieve? Get you more help? I think it
is even to you obvious that that kind of behaviour is a total turndown
for anyone to help you.
So, should it hurt me? Set me up? Trust me, you can’t.
So all this line does is embarass yourself and make people not want to
help you.
If you feel the need to write stuff like that - just don’t. It doesn’t
give you anything.
<<that stuff about being told a thousand times to program ‘hello world’.>>
Maybe instead of offending people at that point, you could try to bite
on your tongue and say “ok, thanks. I’ve done that now, what would be
the next step?”
Regards
Stefan
In message [email protected], Joe
Wiltrout writes:
… I have the entire game planned out.
You know, I used to say things like this. When it came time to actually
make
things happen, I often found there were things I hadn’t considered yet.
-s
In message [email protected], Joe
Wiltrout writes:
Ahh. The sour sound of stupid people. The people who responded (with the
exception of Aur, who suggested the Logo language to me) did not listen.
I asked for help on how to start making a very simple game. Not advice
on how to start programming.
Well, this may seem odd to you, but if I come into a room full of
programmers,
and ask them to tell me how to make a program, I expect them to try to
tell
me how to learn to program.
And, unlike most of these programmers, I
only have programming as something I want to do for fun.
Well, you know, back when I was first learning to program, I was the
same
way. I’d been writing programs for ten years just for the fun of it
before
it occurred to me that people got paid for that stuff.
I know most of
you are getting paid to program or w/e, but I’m not. I really just want
to have fun. And puts(‘hello world!’) over and over again is not fun.
Right.
But NO ONE TOLD YOU TO DO THAT. That’s your own imagination, not
anything
people told you.
-s
unknown wrote:
In message [email protected], Joe
Wiltrout writes:… I have the entire game planned out.
You know, I used to say things like this. When it came time to actually
make
things happen, I often found there were things I hadn’t considered yet.
-s
Lemme clarify. I have what gamers experiance planned out. I have no game
engine or combat system, etc. I have an idea of the graphics, I have an
idea of everything the gamer cares about. Graphics, customizablity, etc.
Don’t tell me I spelled something wrong, because I don’t care.
Joe W. wrote:
… I have the entire game planned out. And I consider all this proper
use cases etc, coding and programming. If it involves programming, its
in the programming catagory. Therefore coding/programming is really
about 90% of it. 9 is the idea itself. And the remaining .5% is where to
get the coffee and donuts.
Do you know what UML is?
–
Travis W.
“Programming in Java is like dealing with your mom –
it’s kind, forgiving, and gently chastising.
Programming in C++ is like dealing with a disgruntled
girlfriend – it’s cold, unforgiving, and doesn’t tell
you what you’ve done wrong.”
unknown wrote:
In message [email protected], Joe
Wiltrout writes:Ahh. The sour sound of stupid people. The people who responded (with the
exception of Aur, who suggested the Logo language to me) did not listen.
I asked for help on how to start making a very simple game. Not advice
on how to start programming.Well, this may seem odd to you, but if I come into a room full of
programmers,
and ask them to tell me how to make a program, I expect them to try to
tell
me how to learn to program.And, unlike most of these programmers, I
only have programming as something I want to do for fun.Well, you know, back when I was first learning to program, I was the
same
way. I’d been writing programs for ten years just for the fun of it
before
it occurred to me that people got paid for that stuff.I know most of
you are getting paid to program or w/e, but I’m not. I really just want
to have fun. And puts(‘hello world!’) over and over again is not fun.Right.
But NO ONE TOLD YOU TO DO THAT. That’s your own imagination, not
anything
people told you.-s
Hate to break it to you, but people did tell me to write basic programs
over and over. I use the term Hello World to symbolize all of the stupid
little basic commands and words that people want me to do. It occured to
me that people write programs and get paid too, but one tihng occured to
me to. I HAVE ENOUGH MONEY AS IT IS. And if your going to quote me on my
I don’t have money to spend on books and the like statement, look at it
closer. BOOKS AND THE LIKE! I have plenty of money to spend on things I
want or need. Learning to program games was just one thing I decided to
start after hitting my head on a low ceiling. Of course at that time my
game was going to be called Ceiling Killers. Where you were a dude with
fireworks and shot roman candles at peoples ceilings. Course that didnt
seem like much fun after my head cleared. Thats what 3 hours knocked out
will do to ya.
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