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e$B$+$iEv$?$jA0$J$s$G$9$,!”$J$<$+:#$^$G!Ve(BGemse$B$GI,[email protected]$+$iE:IU$9e(B
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Yukihiro M. wrote:

e$B:#F|!“e(BSkypee$B$GOC$7$F$F!Ve(BRakee$B$Oe(BGeme$B$KI,?$G$J$$!W$H$$$&OC$rJ9$-e(B
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e$B$+$iEv$?$jA0$J$s$G$9$,!”$J$<$+:#$^$G!Ve(BGemse$B$GI,[email protected]$+$iE:IU$9e(B
[email protected]!W$H;W$$$3$s$G$^$7$?!#e(B

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In message “Re: [ruby-dev:31937] Re: Rakee$BE:IUe(B”
on Thu, 4 Oct 2007 22:52:10 +0900, “NAKAMURA, Hiroshi”
[email protected] writes:

|Yukihiro M. wrote:
|> e$B:#F|!“e(BSkypee$B$GOC$7$F$F!Ve(BRakee$B$Oe(BGeme$B$KI,?$G$J$$!W$H$$$&OC$rJ9$-e(B
|> e$B$^$7$?!#9M$($F$_$l$P8=:_e(BRakee$B$Oe(BGeme$B$G%$%s%9%H!<%k$G$-$k$s$G$9e(B
|> e$B$+$iEv$?$jA0$J$s$G$9$,!”$J$<$+:#$^$G!Ve(BGemse$B$GI,[email protected]$+$iE:IU$9e(B
|> [email protected]!W$H;W$$$3$s$G$^$7$?!#e(B
|
|# RubyGemse$B$,%W%m%@%/%H!“e(Bgeme$B$O3F%Q%C%1!<%8!”$^$?$O%3%^%s%IL>!#e(B
|# Geme$B$H$+e(BGemse$B$C$F$N$O$I$&$+$J!#e(B

e$B$9$$$^$;$s!#e(BRubyGemse$B$G!#e(B

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|> e$B$?$s$G$7$?$C$1!#K:$l$C$]$/$F$9$_$^$;$s!#e(B
|
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                            e$B$^$D$b$He(B e$B$f$-$R$me(B /:|)

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akira yamada / e$B$d$^[email protected]$"$-$ie(B wrote:

Yukihiro M. e$B$5$s$O=q$-$^$7$?e(B:

e$B$"$H!"e(Bpre-install geme$B$H$$$&OC$re(Bruby-coree$B$G8+$+$1$?$N$G$9$,!"e(B

pre-install geme$B$C$F$$$&$N$O$I$s$J$b$N$G$9$+e(B?

pre-installed-geme$B$G$9!#$A$J$_$K;d$O$=$l$r5v$95$$O$"$j$^$;$s!#2[email protected]$C$Fe(B?
e$B$b$A$m$s:G8e$K7h$a$k$N$O$^$D$b$H$5$s$G$9$,!#e(B

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[email protected]$H$+!#e(B

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[email protected]$&$+!"e([email protected]$K;22C$7$F$/[email protected]$5$$!#e(B

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Yukihiro M. e$B$5$s$O=q$-$^$7$?e(B:

e$B$"$H!"e(Bpre-install geme$B$H$$$&OC$re(Bruby-coree$B$G8+$+$1$?$N$G$9$,!"e(B

pre-install geme$B$C$F$$$&$N$O$I$s$J$b$N$G$9$+e(B?

In article [email protected],
“NAKAMURA, Hiroshi” [email protected] writes:

e$B$=$&$G$9$M!#2C$($F!“e(B[ruby-dev:31940]e$B$K$b=q$-$^$7$?$,!”:G=i$O$$J!"e(B
rubye$B$re(B-rubygemse$B$rIU$1$:$K;H$&$o$1$G$9!#$3$N>u67$G$Oe([email protected]$m$&$,e([email protected]$m$&e(B
e$B$,e(Bgeme$B$OB8:
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e$B$I$&$d$C$F3NN)$9$k$s$G$9$+e(B?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Yukihiro M. wrote:

e$B$?$N$G!“2~$a$FG<[email protected]$7$?$$$H;W$C$F$^$9!#e(B
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|e$B1g%D!<%k$O!“e(Bout-of-the-boxe$B$G;H$$$?$$!#30$X$Ne([email protected]\B3$J$I$b$C$F$N$[$+!“e(B
|e$B!V$H$j$”$($:e([email protected]$1F~$l$F$”$k%5!<%P%^%7%s$J$s$G$9$,!W$H$$$&4D6-$G$H$F$b=ue(B
|e$B$+$j$^$9!#e(B

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e$B$o$?$J$Y$G$9!#e(B

NAKAMURA, Hiroshi wrote:

|e$B$"$H!“e(Bruby-coree$B$K$b=P$F$^$9$,e(Brubye$B$N%S%k%I%W%m%;%9$r0lItCV$-49$($i$l$Fe(B
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e$B$G4r$7$/[email protected]$$$^$;$s!#e(B

e$B$H$9$k$H!"%a%j%C%[email protected]$&$[$I$N$3$H$O$J$$!"$H$$$&46$8$G$7$g$&$+!#e(B
e$B$I$&$G$9$+e(B? > eban

Makefilee$B$K$b$$$m$$$mJ}[email protected]$,$"$C$Fe(B(gmake, pmake, nmake, …),
e$B$=$l$K9g$o$;$Fe([email protected]@.$5$;$ke(Bmkmf.rbe$B$G$O7k9=6lO+$7$F$^$9!#e(B
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e$B$?$^$K$b$N$9$4$/M=A[30$J$3$H$,$”$C$?$j$9$k$N$G!“e(B
e$B$=$s$J$3$H$K5$$r;H$o$:$K=q$1$k4D6-$,$”$C$?$[$&$,$$$$$H;W$$$^$7$?!#e(B

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Tanaka A. wrote:

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e$B$,e(Bgeme$B$OB8:
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e$B$Ne([email protected][email protected]$,=P$F$*$i$:!”:#[email protected]$G$b%+%P!<$5$l$F$$$J$$e(B
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e$B$D$r5s$2$F$$$^$9!#e(B

(1) RubyGems e$B$,E:IU$5$l$F$$$J$$e(B ruby
(2) RubyGems e$B$,E:IU$5$l$F$$$k$,<+F0E*$K$Oe(B require e$B$7$J$$e(B
ruby
(3) RubyGems e$B$OE:IU$5$l$F$$$F<+F0E*$Ke(B require e$B$9$ke(B ruby

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require “rubygems” rescue LoadError

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e$B:#8e$NJ}[email protected]$H$7$F$O!"0J2<$N$$$:$l$+$G$7$g$&!#e(B

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NAKAMURA, Hiroshi wrote:

|> e$B$G!“I,?$G$J$$$H$9$k$H$I$&$7$Fe(B1.9e$B$Ge(BRakee$B$rE:IU$H$$$&OC$K$J$Ce(B
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[email protected]$/$s$NF|5-$K$I$&=q$$$F$"$C$?$N$+$O3P$($F$^$;$s$,!"0lEYe(B

e$BH/8+!#e(B
http://www.atdot.net/~ko1/diary/200704.html#d24
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e$B%a%j%C%H!&%G%a%j%C%H$r$^[email protected]$r=P$7$?J}$,$h$$$N$+$b!#e(B
e$BH?BP$H$$$&$o$1$G$O$"$j$^$;$s$,!":#$^$GG<[email protected]$7$F$?M}M3$,$J$/$J$Ce(B
e$B$?$N$G!"2~$a$FG<[email protected]$7$?$$$H;W$C$F$^$9!#e(B

e$B%a%j%C%H$H$7$F$O!"e(Bebane$B$5$s$+$i!“e(Brubye$BK\BN$Ne(Bbuilde$B$K;H$&!”$H$$$&$b$N$b5s$2e(B
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e$B$j!”$3$l$re(BRakee$BE:IU$N%G%a%j%C%H$H$9$k$N$OL5M}$,$"$j$^$9!#e(B

2e$B$K$D$$$F$O9MN8$9$Y$-$G$9$M!#e(B1.9.1e$B$N%j%j!<%9%a%s%F%J$,N)$F$kJ}?K<!Bh$G$9e(B
e$B$,!“e(Bruby_1_8e$BF1MM!”$R$H$?$Se(B"stable"e$B$KE:IU$9$k$H!“5$$^$^$J5!G=DI2C$O$G$-$Je(B
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At Mon, 8 Oct 2007 12:05:17 +0900,
NAKAMURA, Hiroshi wrote:

メリットとしては、ebanさんから、ruby本体のbuildに使う、というものも挙げ
られました。

 mkmf.rb を rake に置き換えるという方向性なら納得しやすいと
思います。私は標準添付に賛成。

  1. ruby_1_8のsoap4rを1.5.5で凍結した
    ï¼ˆæ©Ÿèƒ½è¿½åŠ ãªã—ã®upgradeはsoap4rの方針・リソースと合わなかった)

1についてはRailsの実装の問題、もしくはRubyのrequireシステムの問題であ
り、これをRake添付のデメリットとするのは無理があります。

2については考慮すべきですね。1.9.1のリリースメンテナが立てる方針次第です
が、ruby_1_8同様、ひとたび"stable"ã«æ·»ä»˜ã™ã‚‹ã¨ã€æ°—ã¾ã¾ãªæ©Ÿèƒ½è¿½åŠ ã¯ã§ããª
くなる可能性があります。これはデメリット。

 気ままなというのは言葉の綾として、 ruby_1_8 æžã¯æ©Ÿèƒ½è¿½åŠ ã«
関しては積極的です。

 ただ、普通の人が使う ruby_1_8_* の方は動かせないので、開発
途上のライブラリにおいては標準添付のデメリットも大きいですね。
そこは preinstalled gem という形がいいのかなと思っています。


/
/__ __ Akinori.org / MUSHA.org
/ ) ) ) ) / FreeBSD.org / Ruby-lang.org
Akinori MUSHA aka / (_ / ( (__( @ iDaemons.org / and.or.jp

“Different eyes see different things,
Different hearts beat on different strings –
But there are times for you and me when all such things agree”

NAKAMURA, Hiroshi e$B$5$s$O=q$-$^$7$?e(B:

pre-installed-geme$B$G$9!#$A$J$_$K;d$O$=$l$r5v$95$$O$"$j$^$;$s!#2[email protected]$C$Fe(B?
e$B$b$A$m$s:G8e$K7h$a$k$N$O$^$D$b$H$5$s$G$9$,!#e(B

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make installe$B$9$k$He(Bgeme$B$H$7$F%$%s%H!<%k$5$l$k$b$N$G$9$+$M!#e(B

[email protected]$H$7$?$i8D?ME*$K$Oe(B(e$B$C$F$b0UL#$J$$$+$b$7$l$^$;$s$,e(B)e$B%$%d$G$9$M!#e(B
e$B$=$&$^$Ge(Bgeme$B$K$7$?$$$J$iIaDL$Ke(Bgeme$B$H$7$FN.DL$5$;$k$N$,NI$$$H;W$$$^$9!#e(B

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e$B$9$G$KM}2r$7$^$7$?$,0lNc$H$7$F!#!D!DNc30$J$N$+$b$7$l$^$;$s$,!#e(B

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Akinori MUSHA wrote:

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2e$B$K$D$$$F$O9MN8$9$Y$-$G$9$M!#e(B1.9.1e$B$N%j%j!<%9%a%s%F%J$,N)$F$kJ}?K<!Bh$G$9e(B
e$B$,!“e(Bruby_1_8e$BF1MM!”$R$H$?$Se(B"stable"e$B$KE:IU$9$k$H!“5$$^$^$J5!G=DI2C$O$G$-$Je(B
e$B$/[email protected]$,$”$j$^$9!#$3$l$O%G%a%j%C%H!#e(B

e$B!!5$$^$^$J$H$$$&[email protected]$N0=$H$7$F!"e(B ruby_1_8 e$B;^$O5!G=DI2C$Ke(B
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e$B$&$&!"$9$$$^$;$se(B > e$B!V5$$^$^!We(B
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[email protected]$r0];}$7$?$^$^[email protected]$H9M$($i$l$^$9$N$G!"e(B[ruby-dev:29919]e$B$K>H$i$7$F$b!“e(B
e$BA4$/LdBj$”$j$^$;$s$M!#!#!#e(B

e$B$G!"$H$K$+$/!"%j%j!<%9MzNr$+$i8+$Fe(BRakee$B$O3+H/ES>e$H$$$&$o$1$G$O$J$5$=$&!“e(B
e$B:n<T$Ne(BJime$B$be(Bstablee$B$H$7$F%a%s%F$G$-$k!”[email protected]$C$F$k$N$G!“I8=`E:IU$K$OLdBj$Je(B
e$B$5$=$&!”$H$$$&$H$3$m$G$9!#e(B

[email protected]!"IaDL$N?M$,;H$&e(B ruby_1_8_* e$B$NJ}$OF0$+$;$J$$$N$G!"3+H/e(B
e$BES>e$N%i%$%V%i%j$K$*$$$F$OI8=`E:IU$N%G%a%j%C%H$bBg$-$$$G$9$M!#e(B
e$B$=$3$Oe(B preinstalled gem e$B$H$$$&7A$,$$$$$N$+$J$H;W$C$F$$$^$9!#e(B

e$B$O$$!"e(Bsoap4re$B$O$^$5$K$=$NNc$G<:GT$7$^$7$?!#[email protected]$C$?!#$G!"e(B
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e$B$+!”$,7h$^$C$F$+$i$^$?!#!#!#e(B

  • e$B%G%U%)%k%H$Ge(Brubygemse$BM-8ze(B:
    preinstalled [email protected]$He(Bupdatee$B$,$70W$$!#e(B

  • e$B%G%U%)%k%H$G$Oe(Brubygemse$BL58ze(B:
    e$B%f!<%6$,e(Brubygemse$B$r0U<1$7$J$$8B$j!"e(Bpreinstalled
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    e$B99?7$b$G$-$J$$!#$=$l$J$iI8=`E:IU$;$:!"8e$+$ie(Bgeme$B$GF~$l$F$bF1$8!#e(B

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e$B%G%U%)%k%H$G$Oe(Brubygeme$BL58zGI$G$9!#e(B

Akinori MUSHA e$B$5$s$O=q$-$^$7$?e(B:

[email protected]$($P!"e(B pre-install-gem e$B$r%$%s%9%H!<%k$7$J$$$H$$$&e(B
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pre-installed-geme$B$K$J$i$J$1$l$P$=$&$+$b$7$l$^$;$s$,!“e(B
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[email protected]$1;H$&$b$N$J$ie(B

e$B$=$&$^$G$7$FI8=`E:IU$K$9$kI,MW$b$J$$$H;W$$$^$9!#e(B

e$B$H$3$m$Ge(Bpre-installed-geme$B$K=EBg$JLdBj$,5/$-$?$H$-$C$Fe(B
e$B!Ve(Bgeme$B$G99?7$7$F$M!W$G=*$o$j$K$J$k$s$G$7$g$&$+!#e(B
e$B>l9g$K$h$C$F$Oe(Bcoree$B%A!<%`e(B(?)[email protected](Bgeme$B$r:n$k!"$H$+e(B?

At Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:46:01 +0900,
akira yamada / やまだあきら wrote:

ãƒ‘ãƒƒã‚±ãƒ¼ã‚¸å´ã§ã¯ã§ãã‚‹ã“ã¨ã«é™ç•ŒãŒã§ã¦ãã‚‹å ´åˆãŒã‚ã‚Šãã†ã§ã™ã€‚

私個人のことを言ってもしょうがないのは

すでに理解しましたが一例として。……例外なのかもしれませんが。

 そこについて言えば、 pre-install-gem をインストールしないという
オプションさえ何らかの形で用意されれば別に問題ないと思います。

 今でもほとんどのパッケージディストリビューションは ruby の標準
配布物を複数パッケージに分割したりているわけだし、開発陣が標準で
入っていてほしいと思ってバンドルしているもののうち、どれをどう
入れるかはそれぞれの配布者が判断して決めていますよね。


/
/__ __ Akinori.org / MUSHA.org
/ ) ) ) ) / FreeBSD.org / Ruby-lang.org
Akinori MUSHA aka / (_ / ( (__( @ iDaemons.org / and.or.jp

“Different eyes see different things,
Different hearts beat on different strings –
But there are times for you and me when all such things agree”

At Wed, 10 Oct 2007 18:57:14 +0900,
akira yamada / やまだあきら wrote:

Akinori MUSHA さんは書きました:

 そこについて言えば、 pre-install-gem をインストールしないという
オプションさえ何らかの形で用意されれば別に問題ないと思います。

結局それがなければはじまらない、っていうものが
pre-installed-gemにならなければそうかもしれませんが、
そこら辺って何かあるんでしょうか。

逆に特定の用途にだけ使うものなら

そうまでして標準添付にする必要もないと思います。

 すみません、論旨がよく分かりませんでした。

 現状の標準添付の基準が「それがなければはじまらない」でないのは
明らかだし、「それがなければはじまらない」ものは gem 化できない
ということもないので、 gem で配布できるなら標準添付の必要はない、
ということにはならないと思うのです。

ところでpre-installed-gemに重大な問題が起きたときって
「gemで更新してね」で終わりになるんでしょうか。
å ´åˆã«ã‚ˆã£ã¦ã¯coreチーム(?)で派生版gemを作る、とか?

 パッチリリースまたはレポジトリから最新ソースを取得して build &
install すれば、そこに入っているバージョンが(gem として)上書き
ないしアップグレードインストールされるのだと思います。

 もちろん gem ファイル単独で配布することも可能なので、そこは
gem 化のメリットとなるでしょう。


/
/__ __ Akinori.org / MUSHA.org
/ ) ) ) ) / FreeBSD.org / Ruby-lang.org
Akinori MUSHA aka / (_ / ( (__( @ iDaemons.org / and.or.jp

“Different eyes see different things,
Different hearts beat on different strings –
But there are times for you and me when all such things agree”

Akinori MUSHA e$B$5$s$O=q$-$^$7$?e(B:

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ay

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Urabe S. wrote:

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e$B!Je(B[ruby-dev:32013]e$B$N:G8e$N$H$3$m!K!"e(B[ruby-dev:31970]e$B$X$N$^$D$b$H$5$s$N2se(B
e$BEz$rBT$A$^$9!#e(B

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NAKAMURA, Hiroshi wrote:

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