Rails Vs JBoss Seam

Rails
1

I have been frustrated with J2EE technology just like any other
developer who has worked in that
technology for a long time. This made me learn about Rails and I was
excited about RoR. Today I
came across JBoss Seam framework and I am not able to contain my
excitement.

My passion for JEE development is back. It seems like it is better than
RoR. I would like to hear
differnt opinions about this issue. Please share your thoughts on why
RoR or JBoss Seam is better
than the other. TIA.

2

I think the answer most people will give you here is very simple:

Seam == Java

Rails == Ruby

Ruby means much less code… less crap dealing with types when you don’t
really care what type something is a lot of the
time.

b

3

Bala P. wrote:

My passion for JEE development is back.
It seems like it is better than RoR.

Then go back.

I would like to hear differnt opinions about
this issue. Please share your thoughts on why
RoR or JBoss Seam is better than the other.

This is a list where folks come to get help learning RoR. There’s
already
too much unnecessary (i.e., RTFM) traffic here. Please take your
philosophical inquiries elsewhere.

Best regards,
Bill

4

Hi Bala, I would recommend you do the following as an exercise:

  1. complete a ruby tutorial (e.g. cookbook) or

  2. do the same in the JBoss Seam

  3. you decide

I believe there are simply too many variables sometime to make decision
that
maybe out of your control especially in the corporate
sector. Now, this may be much doable if you’re working for yourself
and/or
working for someone that’s looking to you for technical
expertise. Then one can easily recommend these new technologies to
their
clients.

Good luck,

-Conrad

5

You ignorant dumb $#%@. Can’t you read the subject line? Who the &%$^
told you to flame? If you
don’t have anything to add don’t reply.

I want some feedback from people who have some knowledge. Not dumb a*s
like you.

Best regards,
Bill

Rails mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails

http://www.ProblemSolvingSkill.net
Hone your problem-solving skills

6

On 6/27/06, Bala P. [email protected] wrote:

I have been frustrated with J2EE technology just like any other developer who has worked in that
technology for a long time. This made me learn about Rails and I was excited about RoR. Today I
came across JBoss Seam framework and I am not able to contain my excitement.

Your excitement is premature and may not last long. I know for a fact
that Seam was designed as an R & D effort based on Gavin’s perceptions
of the needs of web developers. I won’t cast a judgment on that
myself, since he is a friend. I will say that he is far removed from
being an application developer, years even.

On the other hand you have Rails, which is made of framework bits and
pieces that have been extracted from actual production applications,
and which are known to be useful and usable. And those bits and
pieces are designed and implemented almost entirely by actual
application developers.

That’s my 2 cents. And another: JSF sucks. Give me a good templating
engine anyday.

Cheers,
Obie

7

While Bill’s response was very direct and
could easily be construed as a bit rude, I’m
pretty sure that your response, Bala, is the
first message in this thread to qualify as a
flame.

– -- Tom M.

8

A little bit of background – I’ve used Java since '96 and taught
classes
for Sun back in '00-'02 timeframe. For quite a while, Java was my
favorite general purpose language. However, I’ll admit I’ve been bit by
the Ruby bug.

I saw a demo of Seam by Gavin King back at the beginning of May. And I
think the neat thing about it was the concept of continuations. That
was
very nifty.

I still think that Ruby and rails is the way to go. I’d like to see
continuations and I’ve toyed with the idea of adding a plugin to provide
them, but I really think that I’ll be a lot more productive and have a
lot
more fun going the ruby and rails route than the J2EE route.

YMMV, of course,

Matt

“… if you do follow your bliss you put yourself on a kind of
track that has been there all the while, waiting for you, and the life
that you ought to be living is the one you are living. When you can
see that, you begin to meet people who are in your field of bliss, and
they open doors to you. I say, follow your bliss and don’t be afraid,
and doors will open where you didn’t know they were going to be.” –
Joseph Campbell

9

Hi Bala, thanks for the question but this is a Ruby language and Rails
framework mailing list. I’m not interested in hearing and/or talking
about
a Java related technology here and I’m sure that the Java related
communities feel the same about Ruby. This question maybe appropriate
for a
more general maling list that supports object oriented languages as a
whole.

-Conrad

10

Thank you Obie and Matt. I was just looking to get some unbiased
feedback from expert developers.
Reading the threads about this topic at serverside forum made me feel
that there was just too much
marketing and noise. You guys rock!!!

— “Matthew K. Williams” [email protected] wrote:

continuations and I’ve toyed with the idea of adding a plugin to provide
see that, you begin to meet people who are in your field of bliss, and
they open doors to you. I say, follow your bliss and don’t be afraid,
and doors will open where you didn’t know they were going to be." –
Joseph Campbell

Rails mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails

http://www.ProblemSolvingSkill.net
Hone your problem-solving skills

11

This thread contains some of the most embarassing behavior I’ve ever
seen in
the Rails community. I have been pleased to be a part of a welcoming
community such as this. It’s unfortunate that we jump all over people
when
they even mention another technology.

If these kinds of questions aren’t wanted on the list, the community
members
should choose to ignore them, just like the Nigerian money scams that
seem
to have found their way into the list lately.

Personally, I think it’s a good question. Where else would you ask this
question? At TSS where everyone thinks Java rules and Ruby sucks? :slight_smile:

12

Why are you wasting your time on this thread? Don’t you have enough to
do ? I don’t really care
who is right or wrong. I just want to know the TRUTH from expert
developers. If you don’t fit
that category. Just keep quiet. I will not put up with rude replies.

— Tom M. [email protected] wrote:

You ignorant dumb $#%@. Can’t you read the subject line? Who the &%

this issue. Please share your thoughts on why

[email protected]
http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails

Rails mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails

http://www.ProblemSolvingSkill.net
Hone your problem-solving skills

13

Bala P. wrote:

came across JBoss Seam framework and I am not able to contain my
excitement.

I could contain my excitement easily once I saw “J2EE” :slight_smile:

My passion for JEE development is back. It seems like it is better than
RoR. I would like to hear
differnt opinions about this issue. Please share your thoughts on why
RoR or JBoss Seam is better

Well, RoR is already out there running a lot of applications. “Seam”
looks to be in the R & D stages at this point, so its pretty hard to do
a real world comparison.

If I had to chew on JSF, Struts, etc. again I’d probably stop being a
developer altogether. It was just too painfull and I don’t see how Seam
is going to ease any real pain out of it. Just my 2 cents.

–> Steve

14

I’m afraid I stopped reading once I got to “Why Choose Seam?” followed
by “EJB-based development”. Not for me, thanks.

15

Bala,

There is a difference between ROR and Seam, as seam wants to be a
component based framework with its “componentized UI widgets”. It is
still based on the various complicated java api’s that most people have
to spend months to learn (to extend them or to patch them). You have to
make the choice yourself but for me its clear. The ROR-core has choosen
to keep things simple, and that works for most of us (ror community),
seam tries to approach that vision but is still build on all those
awfull lib’s :slight_smile:

–
Abdur-Rahman A.
http://blog.railsdevelopment.com/

16

That’s my 2 cents. And another: JSF sucks. Give me a good templating
engine anyday.

Hello Obie,

Have you taken a look at Facelets?

Dennis Byrne

17

Hi Advany,

That was my first impression. It has ton of libs underneath, MyFaces,
Facelets etc. The more libs
it depends on more the chances of getting stuck due to a bug in one of
the lib. It lacks Web
Services, you need to use JBoss AS for that. The focus is on
scalability. But not everyone needs
that much scalability.

Thanks,
BP

18

Well, RoR is already out there running a lot of applications. “Seam”
looks to be in the R & D stages at this point, so its pretty hard to do
a real world comparison.

Seam has been released.

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20060613005142&newsLang=en

Dennis Byrne

19

On 6/28/06, [email protected] [email protected] wrote:

Dennis,

No I have not used Facelets. I don’t really do anything Java-related
anymore. The experiment with Seam was out of curiousity only.

There were a couple of things I liked about Seam, especially how well
EJB3 seems to work now. On the other hand, the complexity factor with
Seam is extremely high compared to Rails.

Gavin and I paired up to write a small subset of a story-card
management tool that I have written in Rails. It took us at least 2
hours of trial-and-error to get everything running and figure out how
to send a plain list of divs to the browser. You see, creating a list
of DIV tags is apparently not a common thing in the JSF world, so we
had to dip into one of the standard JSP tag libraries and figure out
how to use an iterator tag in conjunction with other Seamy stuff.
Anyway, it’s hard to describe the frustration without going into a
bunch of boring details. I didn’t walk away from the experience
feeling any chance that Seam will make it big in the same way that
Rails has. It is extremely complicated, because the guys writing it
are not application developers themselves, so they have no idea the
pain they are inflicting on the people out there (or in some cases
they really don’t care about the pain, because it is the status quo).

Obie

20

hey i was glad to be exposed to seam [big up to the original poster] -
wasn’t impressed by it tho.