No Configuration! WHAT?!


#1

So, I came from PHP, and CodeIgniter (which is nice, but restrictive
with no ORM)I spent the last 9 months trying to understand Ruby on
Rails, and I love it. The only problems are that it takes so long to
learn fully, it costs a lot to host it, and there’s a ton of
configuration/plugins and everything else.

SO, I’ve been playing with Web2Py.

Picture this:

Exactly the same features as Rails… plus:

Coding in your browser over the internet ( no FTP-ing files back and
forth )

Installing everything on a standard hosting environment

Here’s the comparison between Web2Py and other frameworks (AMAZING - way
less code - no configuration)
http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/web2py_vs_others.pdf

I installed it in like 3 minutes just by double clicking the file (with
no shell commands at all), and choosing a password, and created a model
using this tool in like 10 minutes:
http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/sqldesigner/default/sqldesigner

I built a Shopping Cart that accepts credit card information and has a
catalog with image uploads and categories in less than 1 full day.

Here’s the best part:
It’s twice as fast as Rails at run-time (so way less hosting and happier
customers).

As far as I can tell it’s the best framework on the internet, and from
the website, I think one person piloted the whole thing: (kinda like the
Ruby language with Matsumoto)

I’ll give this a college try, cause I don’t have time for all the low
level programming.


#2

You’re posting on a ruby forum, about how good python is?

Um… right.

Ryan B.
Freelancer
http://frozenplague.net


#3

Ryan B. wrote:

You’re posting on a ruby forum, about how good python is?

Um… right.

I just thought that we were all here to make each other’s lives easier.
Python, Ruby, Rails, Web2Py - All open source/free/community supported.

I’m not trying to start a language war. It’s just that Python runs
nearly 7 times faster than Ruby, so naturally a framework built on
Python can run 7 times as fast as Rails if properly built. That’s the
only reason I left Ruby for good, out of all the little reasons, is
because it runs so slow. Otherwise, I kind of like it.

If I was walking through the desert, I’d rather have a bottle of water
(easy, just open and drink) strapped to my back than a giant cactus
(hard, crush and collect, then drink), and I’d rather have both of my
legs to run faster than to have gangrene in one of my thighs and hobble
at 1/7th of the speed. Thought you might like the same. Wouldn’t you?


#4

If speed is so important, why not use Java, or even C++?

Granted Ruby 1.8.x isn’t especially fast, and Rails doesn’t help, but
its
not the only thing to consider! :wink:

On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 9:21 AM, Oroku S. <


#5

yeah, nice comparison…
i’d like to have some cactus though.


#6

If I was walking through the desert, I’d rather have a bottle of water
(easy, just open and drink) strapped to my back than a giant cactus
(hard, crush and collect, then drink), and I’d rather have both of my
legs to run faster than to have gangrene in one of my thighs and hobble
at 1/7th of the speed. Thought you might like the same. Wouldn’t you?

The point is, that there are many more components involved (DB, network
latency,
caching, etc., etc.) that the fact that some ruby python script runs 7
times
faster than Ruby script does not mean much in web context.

Regards,
Rimantas

http://rimantas.com/


#7

Smells like a troll.

Types like a troll.

Must be a troll.

Nice try though.


#8

Is this a spam?

On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 3:25 PM, Oroku S. <


#9

Ok ok ok.

Go on to another mailing list, no one here is interested on this.

Got it?

Maurício Linhares
http://alinhavado.wordpress.com/ (pt-br) | http://blog.codevader.com/
(en)

On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 12:55 PM, Oroku S.


#10

Hey Maricio,

Alright, but you should change the spelling of your name here. It looks
like rails doesn’t support Unicode.


#11

Why are you guys so upset. I thought that you would be excited about a
framework similar to rails that’s easy to use. I know most of the people
here are like me in that they don’t have a degree in programming but
love the stuff. By the way, I think that web2py has caching too. It says
that you can choose between “memcache”, “ram caching”, and “disk
caching”. It says you cab do that to your models, controllers, and
views. It also does this thing called “compiling” the code into byte
code so that the programs run faster in production. I figured that’s
where I’d draw the line, but it was actually easy. I finished creating a
contoller and hit save. The I clicked “compile”, and then “pack”, and it
gave me the whole app zipped up so I could put it on a different server.
Somebody here should try it and tell me what they think. I thought it
was really easy, but there might he some gotchas that I didn’t know
about. I’m less than a year into programming outside of PHP.


#12

alrighty then, adios

On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Maurício Linhares <


#13

On Dec 24, 11:01 am, “Maurício Linhares” removed_email_address@domain.invalid
wrote:

Ok ok ok.

Go on to another mailing list, no one here is interested on this.

Got it?

Please cool it. You don’t speak for the whole list. I for one am
very interested in this. Make no mistake – I love Rails, and I
think the Ruby language in general is fantastic, but if – and it’s a
big if – another framework and/or language can do the job better, I
will drop Rails like a hot potato.

Sure, the original post was slightly trollish, but it’s disconcerting
to me that no one is really responding to the original post –
everyone just seems to be burying their heads in the sand and saying
“go away”. Surely we can do better than that. Besides, where is it
written that one can’t be interested in other frameworks and
languages? Or did I blunder into a cult when I adopted Rails? :slight_smile:

You know, I’ll bet the response would have been completely different
if the original post had said “Smalltalk” instead of “Python” and
“Seaside” instead of “Web2Py”, and been otherwise identical. Food for
thought…

Maurício Linhareshttp://alinhavado.wordpress.com/(pt-br) |http://blog.codevader.com/(en)

Best,

Marnen Laibow-Koser
removed_email_address@domain.invalid
http://www.marnen.org


#14

On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 2:52 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser removed_email_address@domain.invalid
wrote:

Sure, the original post was slightly trollish, but it’s disconcerting
to me that no one is really responding to the original post –
everyone just seems to be burying their heads in the sand and saying
“go away”. Surely we can do better than that. Besides, where is it
written that one can’t be interested in other frameworks and
languages? Or did I blunder into a cult when I adopted Rails? :slight_smile:

At least I can not. I have no interest to discuss anything with a
troll, be it a Smalltalk, Ruby, Python, Java, Self, Erlang, it doesn’t
matter.

And I do think no one is responding to the original post 'cos it’s
useless. He isn’t interested in discussing anything, he just want to
prove his point, whaterver it might be. And i guess we have better
things to do (and real questions and discussions do answer to) and to
feed a troll.

Maurício Linhares
http://alinhavado.wordpress.com/ (pt-br) | http://blog.codevader.com/
(en)


#15

On Dec 24, 12:30 pm, “Maurício Linhares” removed_email_address@domain.invalid
wrote:
[…]

And I do think no one is responding to the original post 'cos it’s
useless. He isn’t interested in discussing anything, he just want to
prove his point, whaterver it might be.

I get a very different impression from his posts. It appears that
he’s interested in actual discussion, but everyone else told him to go
away, so he did.

And i guess we have better
things to do (and real questions and discussions do answer to) and to
feed a troll.

Agreed. But I don’t think Oroku is a troll.

Maurício Linhareshttp://alinhavado.wordpress.com/(pt-br) |http://blog.codevader.com/(en)

Best,

Marnen Laibow-Koser
removed_email_address@domain.invalid
http://www.marnen.org


#16

I looked the guy up who crated the framework. He actually has a PhD and
he’s a computer science professor at DePaul University. I’m almost
completely sold on this (after only a couple weeks of use though).


#17

Thanks for understanding, those that did. To those who didn’t, I’m sorry
I came across as smug. I was just excited. If really interested in
hearing some of your opponions about the framework after trying it. I’ve
tried it to the best of my ability, but my only knowledge is of shopping
carts and cms. Because of my limited knowledge I emailed the creator.
His name is Massimo, and said “the bug tracking feature is great be
keeping all errors logged in order so you can do all your debugging at
one time, but how do I know that none if the errors are from me and not
internal?”. Hlis response was “the framework is stable and there aren’t
currently any known bugs”. I trust him, but it’d still be nice to have
third party confirmation.


#18

On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 11:02 AM, Oroku S.
removed_email_address@domain.invalid wrote:

Thanks for understanding, those that did. To those who didn’t, I’m sorry
I came across as smug. I was just excited. If really interested in
hearing some of your opponions about the framework after trying it.

Then I’d suggest asking this on a Python(-related) mailing list, or the
list/forum (assuming there is one) for this new framework. :slight_smile:


Hassan S. ------------------------ removed_email_address@domain.invalid


#19

I would, but then I’m afraid I’d get religious answers, instead of
facts. Just like people are defensive here of their framework, and most
would claim that it’s the best, same goes with another framework. I want
to see unbiased opinions of it.


#20

On Wednesday 24 December 2008 11:01 am, Maurício Linhares wrote:

Go on to another mailing list, no one here is interested on this.

Speak for yourself, please. I’m always (well, usually) in alternate
ways that might be better (or have some aspects that might be better
(than whatever).

Randy K.

I didn’t have time to write a short letter, so I created a video
instead.–with apologies to Cicero, et.al.