Hi all,
I’d like to bring up the idea of getting off of MoinMoin at some point.
The spam issue is a constant headache and Moin 1.6’s solution isn’t
appealing (textcha’s) for several reasons:
- it’s annoying and error-prone.
- it won’t work against humans (which happen to be the source of a lot
of wiki and blog spam).
I’m thinking what we need is something more like Plone that has actual
workflow and permissions. That is to say, anyone could register and
edit content, but only established users could actually publish content.
Clearly we’ll still get spam attempts, but the spam will never make it
to the web, so the incentive to spam goes away.
Of course, I want to make it as easy as possible for established people
to make changes, so my thought is that we could just promote people to
publishers once they’d actually made a valid addition to the site, so
people could just short-circuit the workflow cycle and publish their own
changes. I doubt spammers will ever make valid contributions to the
site, but if they did, I suppose it would all balance out =)
However, as much as I think Plone fits the bill, I’ve yet to implement
anything successfully with Plone (or Zope), so I think I’d rather look
elsewhere for something a little less complicated.
Another nice thing about a system like this is certain sections could
actually belong to a particular user (e.g. Evan’s Guide to Nginx Module
Development) who wanted to retain control of a document for whatever
reason but also wanted it highly visible.
Any suggestions? Wikis (or even CMS’s) with workflow seem a rare breed.
Regards,
Cliff
Cliff W. ha scritto:
I’m thinking what we need is something more like Plone that has actual
site, but if they did, I suppose it would all balance out =)
Any suggestions? Wikis (or even CMS’s) with workflow seem a rare breed.
Unfortunately I’m not very expert of content management systems, but
what about having the documents managed by a revision control system
(many have ACL support) and have the wiki generated by this repository?
With a revision control system one can reuse the “well know” workflow
for these systems.
Regards,
Cliff
Manlio P.
Will there be discussions associated with Wikis?
They are really necessary to sort things out when people have different
views
on some content.
On 4/2/08, Cliff W. [email protected] wrote:
However, as much as I think Plone fits the bill, I’ve yet to implement
anything successfully with Plone (or Zope), so I think I’d rather look
elsewhere for something a little less complicated.
I have used Plone and Zope extensively, and while I have great respect
for Zope’s technical heritage – I used to be a Zope developer almost
exclusively – I would urge anyone to stay a long way away from Plone.
It is horribly complex and inflexible, and any kind of customization
requires a lot of work. And I say this after once having worked with
Plone Solutions as a consultant on what was in theory a very modest,
trivial site.
I would rather recommend a simpler CMS such as Drupal or a proven wiki
such as MediaWiki. You don’t need a formal workflow, really; just a
way to restrict editing to verified users, which is something a lot of
CMSs and wikis do just fine.
Alexander.
On Wed, 2008-04-02 at 23:07 +0200, Manlio P. wrote:
Unfortunately I’m not very expert of content management systems, but
what about having the documents managed by a revision control system
(many have ACL support) and have the wiki generated by this repository?
With a revision control system one can reuse the “well know” workflow
for these systems.
Well, sort of. The problem with this is management. We need for it to
be simple and quick for any publisher to promote an editor to publisher
role. Most RCS’ aren’t user-friendly in this regard.
Not to mention I’d rather not reinvent the wheel if there’s already a
good solution.
Regards,
Cliff
Cliff W. <cliff@…> writes:
While we’re deciding on a new system to use, how about we make it a
requirement
that every page on the current wiki must contain the word “nginx”,
otherwise
submission will fail? From what I’ve seen, the spammers don’t bother
writing
something related to the site they’re posting on. This could be a simple
yet
effective temporary solution until we find a better wiki/cms.
On Wed, 2008-04-02 at 23:24 +0200, Alexander S. wrote:
requires a lot of work. And I say this after once having worked with
Plone Solutions as a consultant on what was in theory a very modest,
trivial site.
That’s been my experience as well (albeit just a couple short, painful
ones).
I would rather recommend a simpler CMS such as Drupal or a proven wiki
such as MediaWiki.
AFAIK, MediaWiki is even worse than Moin in this regard. I’m not to
certain about Drupal but I’m wary of PHP apps in general (I’ve audited
tons of PHP code for security issues and have yet to find myself happy
with the results).
You don’t need a formal workflow, really; just a
way to restrict editing to verified users, which is something a lot of
CMSs and wikis do just fine.
Yes and no. We don’t really need the formal workflow, but we need some
of it, and it appears to be an all-or-nothing proposition. Moin and
Wikimedia don’t distinguish between types of users, just whether
someone is logged in or not. We need the ability to promote people from
editor to publisher (we don’t care who edits, but we do care who
publishes).
A cheap, interim solution would be to stick with Moin and require that
people jump through a hoop of sorts to get a username (i.e. request one
here on the list or something similar), and if that doesn’t seem too
invasive I could work on it.
Regards,
Cliff
Hi Cliff,
On Mit 02.04.2008 13:50, Cliff W. wrote:
Hi all,
I’m thinking what we need is something more like Plone that has actual
workflow and permissions. That is to say, anyone could register and
edit content, but only established users could actually publish
content. Clearly we’ll still get spam attempts, but the spam will
never make it to the web, so the incentive to spam goes away.
Isn’t plone to complicated for the most user?!
Another nice thing about a system like this is certain sections could
actually belong to a particular user (e.g. Evan’s Guide to Nginx Module
Development) who wanted to retain control of a document for whatever
reason but also wanted it highly visible.
Any suggestions? Wikis (or even CMS’s) with workflow seem a rare breed.
I also thought about drupal, even it’s not the best choice but it’s easy
to install and a active community.
There are also some modules which will fit our requirement.
Cheers
Aleks
On Thu, 2008-04-03 at 01:03 +0000, cynix wrote:
While we’re deciding on a new system to use, how about we make it a requirement
that every page on the current wiki must contain the word “nginx”, otherwise
submission will fail? From what I’ve seen, the spammers don’t bother writing
something related to the site they’re posting on. This could be a simple yet
effective temporary solution until we find a better wiki/cms.
That seems reasonable, except perhaps for some of the built-in Moin
pages. Not sure what effect that would have if someone tried to edit
one.
Cliff
This seems to fit the bill pretty damn well. And a bump from Miguel
can’t be a bad thing =)
Any objections? I’ll get it setup in a VPS for testing.
Cliff
Wiki’s to me are a decent concept but for the most part I am always
disappointed by the implementation. Especially MediaWiki. Blech.
I am annoyed by wiki markup. I’d rather just have a limited amount of
HTML available and work on that. Maybe auto convert newlines (unless
specificly asked not to when posting) - otherwise, stop
auto-formatting and breaking my stuff!
However, I can’t really give any other solution for a general
documenting tool that allows multiple authors. I’d suggest even a
basic WordPress or other type of basic content publishing tool like
that and instead of a wiki concept, just publish articles. But the
change history isn’t there, it’d require registration typically (which
I don’t think is a bad thing) … oh well.
that’s just my two cents. A Lot of wikis make it harder especially
with code samples and things, in my experience. We’re actually moving
away from a wiki originally designed for developers sharing advice,
code and other things internally at my work, and we’re just going to
use a home-made simple CMS type system that tracks changes instead and
has a limited whitelist of allowed HTML for formatting…
either way, whatever makes it easiest for nginx development,
documentation and such is what I’m interested in. I’m in the middle of
converting my entire life (work, side business, play) to nginx so soon
I will be a die-hard fanboy…
You know, http://www.socialtext.com/ ?
i belive it willl be a nice alternative.
fco.
On Mit 09.04.2008 17:34, Cliff W. wrote:
Customer self-service knowledge management | NICE
This seems to fit the bill pretty damn well. And a bump from Miguel
can’t be a bad thing =)
Any objections? I’ll get it setup in a VPS for testing.
Nice, I haven’t know about this 
If you need help I can give you a hand
Cheers
Aleks
On 02/04/2008, Alexander S. [email protected] wrote:
On 4/2/08, Cliff W. [email protected] wrote:
However, as much as I think Plone fits the bill, I’ve yet to implement
anything successfully with Plone (or Zope), so I think I’d rather look
elsewhere for something a little less complicated.
I have used Plone and Zope extensively, and while I have great respect
for Zope’s technical heritage – I used to be a Zope developer almost
exclusively – I would urge anyone to stay a long way away from Plone.
Just wondering what you think of Silva which if I am not mistaken is a
“nicer plone”. I think there’re some knowledge management plugins as
well.
Might be worth looking at:
Silva: The Silva Content Management System
(As with Plone, all I have done is install it and go: “Now what?”)
Regards,
Ryan
On Thu, 2008-04-10 at 09:12 +0430, Francisco Valladolid wrote:
You know, http://www.socialtext.com/ ?
i belive it willl be a nice alternative.
It looks nice, but is only free for up to five users.
Regards,
Cliff