Main working window for Ruby is DOS?

Ruby
1

I know nothing about programming and am not a techy person, so please
excuse the terms I’m using.

I just downloaded Ruby. I expected an environment like Visual BASIC
where there’s a tool bar on the left side and you can just click a
textbox, label, or a command button and it would appear on a Form.
Isn’t Ruby like that?

Is it just a DOS window and nothing else? I know it’s a stupid
question, sorry. But like I said, I know nothing.

Thanks guys.

2

Kaye Ng wrote:

I know nothing about programming and am not a techy person, so please
excuse the terms I’m using.

I just downloaded Ruby. I expected an environment like Visual BASIC
where there’s a tool bar on the left side and you can just click a
textbox, label, or a command button and it would appear on a Form.
Isn’t Ruby like that?

Is it just a DOS window and nothing else? I know it’s a stupid
question, sorry. But like I said, I know nothing.

Thanks guys.

I think what I’m trying to say is does it have an IDE? integrated
development environment

3

On 2010-05-03, Kaye Ng [email protected] wrote:

I just downloaded Ruby. I expected an environment like Visual BASIC
where there’s a tool bar on the left side and you can just click a
textbox, label, or a command button and it would appear on a Form.
Isn’t Ruby like that?

No. Ruby is a programming language, not a GUI builder.

Ruby has tools for building all sorts of programs, but it’s not
something
like Visual Basic that is completely tied to the assumption that the
user
is running on a desktop machine that’s the same system where the Ruby
code is
running. Ruby is used in other environments, such as web servers, where
the user could be thousands of miles from the computer running the
program.

Like most programming languages, Ruby’s basic/default user interface is
that it reads data from input and writes it to output, typically seen by
the
new user as text in a command prompt window.

Basically, the stuff you’re thinking about from Visual Basic is really
unrelated to programming – it’s a GUI builder, not the actual language.
VB is tied heavily to that model, so no one really cares. Ruby is more
flexible.

-s

4

Hi Kaye
Visual BASIC is a
IDE(Integrated development environment - Wikipedia).
The compiler, that “translates” the sourcecode into machine code, is
integrated. when you download ruby, there is only the interpreter(a
thing similar to the compiler), but the IDE is an extra application. A
few good IDEs for ruby are:

  • Netbeans
  • Eclipse
  • FreeRIDE

2010/5/3 Kaye Ng [email protected]:

5

On 5/2/2010 10:05 PM, Kaye Ng wrote:

Thanks guys.

Not a stupid question at all, just a newbie question (which is what this
list is for).

Actually, what you describe is NOT Visual BASIC (VB), but actually
Visual Studio (VS), which Microsoft bundles with VB. VB is the
programming language, i.e. the code you write. VS is the pretty
Integrated Development Environment (IDE) which tries to facilitate
writing that code. When you create a new Windows project, VS writes the
code to create an application window for you. When you drop a button
onto the form in VS, VS writes the code to add a button to said window.
Make sense? All of this could be accomplished in notepad, the difference
being you’d have to write your own code.

While there are several IDEs out there for Ruby, I don’t know of any
that contains a Form Editor like VS does. That said, believe it or not,
once you get good at interface design, you’ll rarely if ever miss it.
Also, while those pretty GUI (Graphical User Interface) programs seem
cool, and are probably what you’re shooting for being able to create in
the long run, I wouldn’t suggest it for a newbie programmer.

What I would recommend is picking up a book on the subject. While I
have never read it, I have heard good things about Chris P.'s “Learn
to Program”:
Pragmatic Bookshelf: By Developers, For Developers (also
available off Amazon).

For free online tutorials, there is one on Rubylearning.com:
Learn How to Blog and Build Websites for Profit!

Or Why’s Poignant Guide to Ruby (The first Ruby book I ever read):
http://mislav.uniqpath.com/poignant-guide/

A note about the Poignant Guide: it is not like most programming books.
In fact it is downright strange. While I am a huge fan, it may not be
for everyone.

Hopefully that’s enough to send you off in the right direction. If you
have anymore questions, don’t hesitate to ask!

6

Thanks guys. I want to make a program for the company I’m working for.
It’s a manufacturing company. Anyway, are you guys saying that I should
download Netbean or any similar software and make it work with Ruby so I
could come up with the program I need?

Currently the company is using a program developed from Clipper. It’s
really old, like since the 80’s. I want to make a similar program using
Ruby. I know it’s possible, but I’m thinking when they made the program
with Clipper, surely they didn’t have to integrate the Clipper with
another software like Netbean?

Thanks for your patience.

7

On May 2, 2010, at 11:22 PM, Kaye Ng wrote:

question, sorry. But like I said, I know nothing.

Thanks guys.

I think what I’m trying to say is does it have an IDE? integrated
development environment

Here are a couple I found with a quick google search. I use TextMate for
my own work, but it doesn’t have all of the visual basic pointy-clicky
stuff like some of these others.

I haven’t used any of these.

http://netbeans.org/features/ruby/index.html

http://redcareditor.com/

Hopefully someone else will chime in who has done some work with these
IDEs.

cr

8

On Sunday 02 May 2010 11:22:53 pm Kaye Ng wrote:

Kaye Ng wrote:

I know nothing about programming and am not a techy person, so please
excuse the terms I’m using.

That’s fine. I’m still going to correct your terms, though. How else
will you
learn?

I just downloaded Ruby. I expected an environment like Visual BASIC
where there’s a tool bar on the left side and you can just click a
textbox, label, or a command button and it would appear on a Form.
Isn’t Ruby like that?

No.

Neither is Visual BASIC, by itself – despite the name, as I understand
it,
you still work with text. Stuff like if/then, do/while, etc. That’s how
people
are able to use Visual BASIC for websites, which don’t directly have a
GUI.

What I would suggest is learning Ruby, the language, and then looking
for a
good GUI framework that has some sort of form builder. I’ve used
QtDesigner
before, though not with Ruby – I bet you could make it work with the
Ruby Qt
bindings.

But that just gives you a GUI. It doesn’t give you a program.

Is it just a DOS window and nothing else?

No.

In fact, I don’t think Ruby runs in DOS, ever. What you’re talking about
is
the command prompt. On Windows, it looks like DOS, but it actually has
nothing
to do with DOS.

What you probably want to do is pick up a good text editor – I hear
good
things about Notepad++ on Windows. Use that to create your Ruby scripts,
and
use the command prompt to run them. A little inconvenient, but not much,
once
you learn how.

An IDE adds a number of useful tools on top of that, mostly designed
around
things like debugging and source control.

I think what I’m trying to say is does it have an IDE? integrated
development environment

While I’m nitpicking, this question is backwards. Most programming
languages
don’t have IDEs built-in. There are many IDEs that work with multiple
languages – Eclipse is one.

I know there are IDEs out there that support Ruby. I don’t know which
ones
there are, and which are good. I would guess that most Ruby developers
don’t
use them.

9

I will take Walton’s advice and read the “poignant guide to Ruby”. When
I have more or less mastered Ruby’s syntax, I will then look into
designing interface.

So bottom line question is this: To make a usable program for my
company, should or shouldn’t I use an IDE together with Ruby? Seebs
says IDE’s are unnecessary. I had no idea it was so. I used to think
that an IDE is the only or primary tool to make a GUI. How else was I
going to make a GUI?

By the way, GUI is graphical user interface, correct? Like the Windows
Calculator (Programs -> Accessories -> Calculator) has a GUI with
buttons 0 to 9 and all the arithmetic symbols and the Label or textbox
above the buttons?

Are you telling me that I could develop a calculator program thru Ruby
WITHOUT using an IDE?

Thanks again.

10

On 2010-05-03, Kaye Ng [email protected] wrote:

Thanks guys. I want to make a program for the company I’m working for.
It’s a manufacturing company. Anyway, are you guys saying that I should
download Netbean or any similar software and make it work with Ruby so I
could come up with the program I need?

Not really. If you really want a form-builder type thing, I guess I
would recommend a language for which that’s the preferred or native
style.

Currently the company is using a program developed from Clipper. It’s
really old, like since the 80’s. I want to make a similar program using
Ruby. I know it’s possible, but I’m thinking when they made the program
with Clipper, surely they didn’t have to integrate the Clipper with
another software like Netbean?

Maybe they did, maybe they didn’t.

Here’s the thing. Software like Netbeans, or Visual Studio, is
COMPLETELY
UNNECESSARY. You don’t need it to write programs. You don’t need some
kind
of “form builder” to make an interface.

However.

If you are at a stage of experience as a programmer such that this is
not
immediately obvious to you, you should either budget substantial time
(weeks
to months) for learning how to program, or pick a tool that’s more aimed
at the sort of one-off stuff that VB and Clipper are intended for. Or
hire a more experienced programmer to do the work.

-s

11

Kaye Ng wrote:

I will take Walton’s advice and read the “poignant guide to Ruby”. When
I have more or less mastered Ruby’s syntax, I will then look into
designing interface.

So bottom line question is this: To make a usable program for my
company, should or shouldn’t I use an IDE together with Ruby? Seebs
says IDE’s are unnecessary. I had no idea it was so. I used to think
that an IDE is the only or primary tool to make a GUI. How else was I
going to make a GUI?

There are UI toolkits that allow you to use a text editor to define what
you want without having to draw it in a WYSWYG GUI tool.

For example, with JRuby, you can use Neurogami::SwingSet to create Swing
forms and such and create assorted GUI apps all from a basic text
editor.

As a practical matter, though, there are degrees of complexity and
nuance where you are much better off using a visual tool to layout your
forms. So, with JRuby (for example), you would do well in using the
free GUI editor that is built into Netbeans, and build forms for use
with the Monkeybars MVC framework.

I believe you have similar options for non-JRuby R. GUI apps as well.
(I focus on JRuby because it affords me the fastest, most robust path
for building and packaging cross-platform desktop apps.)

Bottom line is that non-IDE GUI development is certainly doable, and
perhaps some people prefer it, but if your application is even
moderately complex you’re better using a tool to help you design the
screens.

A calculator app, though, is likely simple enough that you don’t need an
IDE to build it. And it’s good to know how your code is actually
working under the hood.

–
James B.

www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys
www.ruby-doc.org - Ruby Help & Documentation
www.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
www.neurogami.com - Smart application development

12

Do you have a Mac?

With MacRuby, you can use the “Interface Builder” in XCode to help you
build a nice looking UI using Ruby behind the scenes.

0.6 is around the corner, and is suppose to be a release that makes
Cocoa development stable.
FYI, XCode and IB have a learning curve.

Best,
Rob

13

Kaye Ng wrote:

Thanks guys. I want to make a program for the company I’m working for.
It’s a manufacturing company. Anyway, are you guys saying that I should
download Netbean or any similar software and make it work with Ruby so I
could come up with the program I need?

Currently the company is using a program developed from Clipper. It’s
really old, like since the 80’s. I want to make a similar program using
Ruby. I know it’s possible, but I’m thinking when they made the program
with Clipper, surely they didn’t have to integrate the Clipper with
another software like Netbean?

Thanks for your patience.

How much patience do you have? From your words I can conclude that you
haven’t programmed (much) in any programing language yet.

You have about half year of time to make your first usable program. If
you don’t do it in that time, then programming is probably not the best
job decision for you.

It is good that you have an example to follow. At first steps don’t
bother to run super duper IDE. Write your first programs with simple
editor that is at your hand. (notepad, gedit, kedit or even vi, nano if
you don’t use GUI). In a time you will found out that this is not enough
for your needs and will want to have something more sophisticated. I use
Netbeans because it runs the same on Linux and Windows.

Don’t try to learn GUI programing at start. And (sadly) there are
probably better languages to learn GUI programming than Ruby. When you
will discover rails, you won’t need any GUI programing at all. And away
are all the problems regarding installing programs on many workstations.
Everything runs from single server. All your users need is web browser.

I was Clipper programmer for more than 10 years and when I discovered
Ruby I just loved it. Clipper and ruby share lots of things in common.
No declarations, simple and clear syntax, short programs, codeblocks are
few of them.

Ruby is fantastic language to start with. You write some code and just
run it. No compilation, no independences. Programs run unchanged on any
platform.

Start learning here from Learn to Program, by Chris Pine include
Ruby Sidebar 2.0 in your browser and happy
programming.

by
TheR

14

Kaye Ng wrote:

I will take Walton’s advice and read the “poignant guide to Ruby”.

Try this too:
http://www.ruby-doc.org/docs/ProgrammingRuby/

It’s an old version of a book (for ruby 1.6) but this edition is free,
and most of it is still valid today. You can buy the 2nd edition for
ruby 1.8, or the 3rd edition for ruby 1.9.

Are you telling me that I could develop a calculator program thru Ruby
WITHOUT using an IDE?

Certainly. But the program would be written by typing text, not by
dragging UI elements.

As others have said: if you’re not comfortable with writing applications
this way, then maybe Ruby isn’t for you. As far as I know, the Ruby
“IDEs” out there are just windowy editors where you can launch your code
from within the editor.

However, in the 21st century, maybe you don’t want a “GUI” application
at all - maybe you want to write a web application. This means the “GUI”
is in fact a web browser, and it allows the data to be shared between
users in the business, and the users to be remote from where the server
is running. Just something to think about.

15

Kaye Ng wrote:

I know nothing about programming and am not a techy person, so please
excuse the terms I’m using.

I just downloaded Ruby. I expected an environment like Visual BASIC
where there’s a tool bar on the left side and you can just click a
textbox, label, or a command button and it would appear on a Form.
Isn’t Ruby like that?

Is it just a DOS window and nothing else? I know it’s a stupid
question, sorry. But like I said, I know nothing.

Thanks guys.

BAM! http://www.sapphiresteel.com/

That will throw you into a familiar environment.

Also there is
http://wxruby.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl

And
http://ironruby.net/
if you want to stay in the .NET area.

hope that helps.
~Jeremy

16

There are some beginners lessons to programming using Ruby at
www.oldkingjames.org they might help you.

Good luk