I am not a programmer to the level I am reading about here but I do
construct the odd CSS based front end and the graphic design of sites.
I would do the design, slice up the graphics, plan the front end
template (HTML/CSS/JS) and build it without a WYSIWYG.
So I saw what was possible with scriptaculous and moved onto what rails
actually means and thus read more on the Rails wiki. Then there was
talk of command lines and databases and realised that this is the point
where I leave the picture. So my question is, as basically someone who
builds the front ends and leaves the databases etc to someone else, is
there anythigng I could get from rails or is this just something that
my backend coder will one day say their going from php to ruby?
daniel wrote:
So I saw what was possible with scriptaculous and moved onto what rails
actually means and thus read more on the Rails wiki. Then there was
talk of command lines and databases and realised that this is the point
where I leave the picture. So my question is, as basically someone who
builds the front ends and leaves the databases etc to someone else, is
there anythigng I could get from rails
It’s always worth loarning new things - for fun, mental health,
personal satisafction, and the option to move into different work areas
as markets shift.
The fact that you’re here means you’re probably on top of your game as
far as CSS and design goes, so you’ll have room for something else. I’d
say it’s a good idea, if only because it will mean you’ll be able to
integrate your styles with Ruby projects much more easily in future.
I think web-based designers should know a bit about coding, and
web-based coders should know a bit about design. It makes it easier to
work… Designes can be put together with code in mind, and code can be
made sensitive to design needs.
or is this just something that
my backend coder will one day say their going from php to ruby?
Depends if your coder is of the ‘tried, tested and works’ mentality or
the ‘WOW! New thing! Must play!’ mentality. I’m of the latter… ;^) (I
wonder when I’ll get bored of Ruby and Rails? It’s taking longer than
normal, I must say…)
There’s nothing to be scared of. Get a PDF of this…
http://www.pragmaticprogrammer.com/title/rails/
…which takes you by the hands through from a virgin PC to having a
shop application with cart and admin. If it’s not for you, you haven’t
killed any trees finding out.
Ben
daniel wrote:
I am not a programmer to the level I am reading about here but I do
construct the odd CSS based front end and the graphic design of sites.
I would do the design, slice up the graphics, plan the front end
template (HTML/CSS/JS) and build it without a WYSIWYG.
So I saw what was possible with scriptaculous and moved onto what rails
actually means and thus read more on the Rails wiki. Then there was
Hi,
I’m moving in from the opposite direction. I have lots of programming
experience (though not Rails, so far) but almost no “non-programming”
design experience.
Perhaps we can help each other get started. I’ll help you get to know
programming basics and object orientation principles and you teach me
something about design, user interfaces and so on. I’m especially
interested in all the subtle stuff that make the difference in the “Web
2.0” style guidelines.
I also have a live server available for experiments which we can use.
Interested? 
Jens
daniel wrote:
I am not a programmer to the level I am reading about here but I do
construct the odd CSS based front end and the graphic design of sites.
I would do the design, slice up the graphics, plan the front end
template (HTML/CSS/JS) and build it without a WYSIWYG.
So I saw what was possible with scriptaculous and moved onto what rails
actually means and thus read more on the Rails wiki. Then there was
talk of command lines and databases and realised that this is the point
where I leave the picture. So my question is, as basically someone who
builds the front ends and leaves the databases etc to someone else, is
there anythigng I could get from rails or is this just something that
my backend coder will one day say their going from php to ruby?
I’ve always considered myself a designer first as well. I sort of fell
into scripting with PHP to do basic stuff for personal projects, and
simply started to accumulate knowledge of languages, databases, etc. For
having never taken a computer science or IT course in my life, I do
okay. When I first started reading about Rails, I think I was attracted
to the design and functionality I saw coming out of these “Web 2.0”
pages, more than I was attracted to the actual framework.
Now that I’m almost finally done my first Rails apps, I can say that it
really is a wonderful tool to have in your arsenal. Like I said, I’m not
a programmer, so I always reached a point working in PHP where I’d feel
like I was getting lost, burying myself under ugly hacks and in general
being a victim of my own (lack of) logic. This happens far less with
Rails. I have a long way to go before I can write complicated apps, but
I feel Rails allows me to write clearer more concise code that I can go
back and revise quickly when I decide I want to change things around (is
this what Agile means?). I feel like Rails just does a lot of the heavy
lifting for me, and doesn’t ask much in return.
If you’ve never coded before, Rails might be a bit daunting at first.
But even with your Javascript experience, you might be able to dive into
the basics. Understanding how objects work will be important, and I
suggest you cuddle up to a good Rails books to hold your hand for a
while.
Good Luck,
Bryan
On 10/20/06, daniel [email protected] wrote:
there anythigng I could get from rails or is this just something that
my backend coder will one day say their going from php to ruby?
Using a plugin like MasterView with Rails allows one to use a designer
to do the layout and styling while leaving the code to developers.
This way each can focus on what they do best. And the designer can
even update the xhtml friendly templates late in the project cycle
rather than only at the beginning.
So that opens up many opions for pure non-developer web designers.
Of course if you would like to learn rails, do so, it is a fun way to
develop web applications.
If I can answer any questions about MasterView I would be happy to.
Blessings,
Jeff B.
Founder of MasterView project
http://masterview.org/
http://rubyforge.org/projects/masterview/
Thanks heaps for the responses (and offer) and I think I will have to
delve into this a bit (my first aim is to look at the resources and
links provided) and see where I go.
Learning R. isn’t really where I wanted to direct myself - I am
taking myself down the front-end (IA/UX) pathway of webdesign but with
the quality of knowing (X)HTML/CSS/JS enough to build a front end quite
well. As I mentioned, i got to ruby via scriptaculous and that appealed
to me because it was just .js’s that I loaded to the server and then,
just like CSS, referenced it in the HTML [1] - which fits exactly to my
need to create engaging front end experiences. I will be looking into
rails just to see if it can help that front end user experience but not
really to be able to say to a client “I now build apps” - I don’t think
that’s fair to all the great, dedicated programmers out there
Thanks again to all the replies and I will probably take you up Jens
just so I can work out where I would like to put Rails in my bag of
knowledge.
[1] damn I hate how there is nothing like the CSS reference table for
finding out how to use all the scriptaculous features and when what
syntax is to be used in what circumstance - I’m not able to ‘read’
complicated .js files too well.
Daniel:
Even if you never master it, learning the database and web app
backends behind your designs will help you immensly.
The first step is learning Ruby http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/. What
other programming languages have you used before?
* Learn to Program <http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/>
* Ruby in Twenty Minutes
http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/documentation/quickstart/
Rails is a pretty big beast, so once you get the hang of Ruby, might I
recommend a web framework called Camping
http://code.whytheluckystiff.net/camping/. With Camping, you can
create web applications in one file. Like Rails, it uses ActiveRecord
to connect to the database, so many of the things you learn how to do
in Camping will be applicable to Rails.
I am a front end designer that has started learning Ruby to expand
current skill set and also be able to do create some of the functions I
need for my sites.
I have actually started a few learning courses, first starting with the
Ruby language itself, which I actually did through this book:
Sams Teach Yourself Ruby in 21 Days
Mark Slagell
Sams, 2002, 560 pages ISBN:0-672-32252-8
(via PDF)
Now I only made it to Day 15, but it gave me the foundation to start
putting the pieces together. From there I went to:
Why’s Poignant Guide to Ruby
http://poignantguide.net/ruby/index.html
Which is a little goofy in approach but it again is helping to solitify
the language pieces.
Then I picked up “Agile Web D. with Rails” from my local
library, and WAH-LAH it is actually making sense to me.
I am just following along as suggested in the book, and I have found it
to be easy to grasp and it is actually all starting to make sense.
Hey, I can almost understand some of the post here in this forum LOL.
Anyways, those are just a few of my suggestions.
Jessica