Groklaw says "Watch out, Ruby!"

PJ raises a warning cry about IronRuby: “Uh Oh. Another Smooth Move
from Microsoft: Watch out, Ruby. Watch out OSI.” [http://
www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070730120109643]

On Jul 30, 2007, at 3:05 PM, [email protected] wrote:

PJ raises a warning cry about IronRuby: “Uh Oh. Another Smooth Move
from Microsoft: Watch out, Ruby. Watch out OSI.” [http://
www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070730120109643]

I’m not sure I understand what this has to do with Ruby. The
implication seems to be that because Microsoft’s IronRuby is released
under a license that isn’t approved by OSI, that the Ruby community
at large had better “watch out”.

With all due to respect to John L. and the other IronRuby
developers, is anyone taking IronRuby all that seriously?

With all due to respect to John L. and the other IronRuby
developers, is anyone taking IronRuby all that seriously?

As a way of getting rails into IIS shops, if nothing else.

  • donald

Lyle J. wrote:

better “watch out”.

With all due to respect to John L. and the other IronRuby developers,
is anyone taking IronRuby all that seriously?

Very, but not for the reason you’d think. If IronRuby pans out, and if
SilverLight 1.1 does what it says on the tin, getting Ruby installed on
a client’s machine becomes a no-op.

Ball, Donald A Jr (Library) wrote:

With all due to respect to John L. and the other IronRuby
developers, is anyone taking IronRuby all that seriously?

You have to understand, the primary objective of all projects at
Microsoft is to get the world to take it seriously enough for someone to
make money. Engineering objectives are always at best tertiary.

With all due to respect to John L. and the other IronRuby
developers, is anyone taking IronRuby all that seriously?

I am.

It’ll probably be the first “ruby” compiler to reach 1.0 and it allows
one to replace ActionScript with Ruby. Or so I hope.

I’ll HAVE to have a look just because of these two possibilities.

Aur

On Tue, Jul 31, 2007, SonOfLilit wrote:

With all due to respect to John L. and the other IronRuby
developers, is anyone taking IronRuby all that seriously?

It’ll probably be the first “ruby” compiler to reach 1.0 and it allows
one to replace ActionScript with Ruby. Or so I hope.

You must mean “after jruby”:

http://docs.codehaus.org/display/JRUBY/2007/06/12/JRuby+1.0+Released

or is jruby something fundamentally different than IronRuby in your
mind?

Ben

On 7/30/07, Alex Y. [email protected] wrote:

Another question: is there any reason that, say, Rubinius’ standard
libraries couldn’t be used with IronRuby? Has anyone looked? What’s
their implementation status at the moment?

The MRI stdlibs are (mostly) Ruby and should be freely reusable. I’d
be sort of surprised if alternative implementers bother implementing
more than they have to with these, unless they need to tweak the
existing libs for their implementations.

Alex Y. wrote:

under a license that isn’t approved by OSI, that the Ruby community at
large had better “watch out”.

With all due to respect to John L. and the other IronRuby developers,
is anyone taking IronRuby all that seriously?

Very, but not for the reason you’d think. If IronRuby pans out, and if
SilverLight 1.1 does what it says on the tin, getting Ruby installed on
a client’s machine becomes a no-op.

Another question: is there any reason that, say, Rubinius’ standard
libraries couldn’t be used with IronRuby? Has anyone looked? What’s
their implementation status at the moment?

On 7/30/07, Alex Y. [email protected]alid wrote:

existing libs for their implementations.

I’m sure you’re right, I can’t see many technical reasons not to use the
standard implementation. However, John L. is specifically asking for
contributions to the IronRuby stdlib. I don’t know what assignments
you’d have to make to get them accepted, and I haven’t seen it discussed
anywhere. John, are you reading? Can you give us a steer on this?

Oh, he can’t use the implementations because I think the license is
incompatible :-/

On 7/30/07, Ben B. [email protected] wrote:

On Tue, Jul 31, 2007, SonOfLilit wrote:

With all due to respect to John L. and the other IronRuby
developers, is anyone taking IronRuby all that seriously?

It’ll probably be the first “ruby” compiler to reach 1.0 and it allows
one to replace ActionScript with Ruby. Or so I hope.

You must mean “after jruby”:

No, I don’t. jruby is an interpreter.

Aur

On Tue, Jul 31, 2007 at 05:57:45AM +0900, Ben B. wrote:

or is jruby something fundamentally different than IronRuby in your
mind?

The operative word is compiler. JRuby is a ruby runtime/interpreter, but
it
does not compile source down to bytecode. IronRuby is a compiler to CLR
bytecode plus runtime libraries.

Ben
–Greg

On Tue, Jul 31, 2007, Gregory S. wrote:

or is jruby something fundamentally different than IronRuby in your
mind?

The operative word is compiler. JRuby is a ruby runtime/interpreter, but it
does not compile source down to bytecode. IronRuby is a compiler to CLR
bytecode plus runtime libraries.

Ah, that was a misconception on my part. I thought jruby compiled to
jvm bytecode. My mistake, sorry :slight_smile:

Ben

Gregory B. wrote:

I’m sure you’re right, I can’t see many technical reasons not to use the
standard implementation. However, John L. is specifically asking for
contributions to the IronRuby stdlib. I don’t know what assignments
you’d have to make to get them accepted, and I haven’t seen it discussed
anywhere. John, are you reading? Can you give us a steer on this?

Does any know any good instructions for installing IronRuby on Mac OS X?

Or of any good (easy to use) compiler for Ruby?

Thanks,
---------------------------------------------------------------|
~Ari
“I don’t suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it” --1337est
man alive

Ari B. wrote:

Does any know any good instructions for installing IronRuby on Mac OS X?
There are only just working instructions for building it on Windows :slight_smile:
It may in time be supported by Mono, but the DLR is still a moving
target so I wouldn’t expect that just yet.

Or of any good (easy to use) compiler for Ruby?
IronRuby will be the first, assuming all is as it appears. At least, to
the best of my knowledge. I may be spouting gibberish - I’ve been
writing c# for 16 hours, so all bets are off :slight_smile:

Does any know any good instructions for installing IronRuby on Mac OS
X?

I’m pretty sure that Seo S. has IronRuby building on top of Mono
now. He hasn’t published instructions yet, but I suspect those will be
forthcoming soon.

-John

I’m sure you’re right, I can’t see many technical reasons not to use the
standard implementation. However, John L. is specifically asking for
contributions to the IronRuby stdlib. I don’t know what assignments
you’d have to make to get them accepted, and I haven’t seen it discussed
anywhere. John, are you reading? Can you give us a steer on this?

There are quite a few stdlib libraries that are implemented in C - those
are the ones that we need help with. We’re making good progress on the
built-in types (another dev on our team just checked in a nearly
complete implementation for Hash yesterday).

As for assignments, we will have a standard contributor agreement that
will assert that you have the legal right to contribute the code that
you are submitting, as well as a copyright assignment. This is a very
standard process in open source projects (see Apache’s contributor
agreement here: http://apache.org/licenses/icla.txt).

Thanks,
-John

John L. (CLR) wrote:

nearly complete implementation for Hash yesterday).
There’s a current discussion on ruby-core about packaging stdlib as gems

  • have you looked into that at all, or is that just not on the radar?

On 7/30/07, John L. (CLR) [email protected] wrote:

Does any know any good instructions for installing IronRuby on Mac OS
X?

I’m pretty sure that Seo S. has IronRuby building on top of Mono now. He hasn’t published instructions yet, but I suspect those will be forthcoming soon.

Sweet! That’s great news John.

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