Freelance rates

Hi, Recently, I have been working on learning R4R because a
prospective client said that they were planning on moving in that
direction in the near future. I am talking with him tomorrow about the
first project he has for me. I was wondering if anyone could give me
some advice on what kind of rate a beginning rails developer can ask
for. I don’t think that it’s a huge project. He wants it to be a sort
of template web site that they can also use for similar future jobs.

Thanks,
bimo

bimo wrote:

Hi, Recently, I have been working on learning R4R because a
prospective client said that they were planning on moving in that
direction in the near future. I am talking with him tomorrow about the
first project he has for me. I was wondering if anyone could give me
some advice on what kind of rate a beginning rails developer can ask
for. I don’t think that it’s a huge project. He wants it to be a sort
of template web site that they can also use for similar future jobs.

Thanks,
bimo

I am not sure where you are located but in US disccusing prices can be
seen as price fixing and can cause a problem if I am not wrong(correct
me someone).

As a European I charge 50 euro (which is around 60$) an hour as a
developer.

Gokhan A.
Software developer
www.sylow.net

You are correct. I’ve posted this before - a good discussion of why
pricing discussions in public forums should be avoided is at the HTML
Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/resources/faqs/priceFAQ.html

c.

Gokhan A. wrote:

bimo wrote:

Hi, Recently, I have been working on learning R4R because a
prospective client said that they were planning on moving in that
direction in the near future. I am talking with him tomorrow about the
first project he has for me. I was wondering if anyone could give me
some advice on what kind of rate a beginning rails developer can ask
for. I don’t think that it’s a huge project. He wants it to be a sort
of template web site that they can also use for similar future jobs.

Thanks,
bimo

I am not sure where you are located but in US disccusing prices can be
seen as price fixing and can cause a problem if I am not wrong(correct
me someone).

As a European I charge 50 euro (which is around 60$) an hour as a
developer.

Gokhan A.
Software developer
www.sylow.net

ah, thanks

Cayce B. wrote:

You are correct. I’ve posted this before - a good discussion of why
pricing discussions in public forums should be avoided is at the HTML
Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/resources/faqs/priceFAQ.html

c.

I am not sure where you are located but in US disccusing prices can be
seen as price fixing and can cause a problem if I am not wrong(correct
me someone).

As a European I charge 50 euro (which is around 60$) an hour as a
developer.

Gokhan A.
Software developer
www.sylow.net

That sounds reasonable… thanks

ill wrote:

Not this, not again!

Asking what people charge is fine. This is what customers and
competitors do. There is no price fixing.

Deciding to agree upon a price that you and others should charge is not.
That takes away competition.

Bill

Not this, not again!

Asking what people charge is fine. This is what customers and
competitors do. There is no price fixing.

Deciding to agree upon a price that you and others should charge is not.
That takes away competition.

Bill

This has been posted in several threads, also:

http://www.blueflavor.com/ed/tips_tricks/pricing_a_project.php

great info.

c.

Bill wrote:

Not this, not again!

Asking what people charge is fine. This is what customers and
competitors do. There is no price fixing.

Deciding to agree upon a price that you and others should charge is not.
That takes away competition.

Bill

Discussing this in public is NOT price fixing. This price FAQ is more
about why a HTML Writer’s Guild won’t discuss prices. They’re just
trying to keep their libability to a minimum. It’s a big difference
between what we’re doing here and HTML Guild suggesting prices. That
would be price fixing. Better for them to stay away from it altogether.

It’s illegal for you to get try and get people to agree upon a price
that each member in the group won’t charge more or less. It’s NOT
illegal to discuss what you charge other people because in no way does
discussing it constitute and agreement as a group. People reading the
thread doesn’t neccessarily have to follow the group. The person could
choose to undercut other people to get more business. Or charge more
because Ruby devlopment is in greater demand than the supply of
programmers. It’s still up to individual to decide his/her price.

Just as a note a graphic designer friend of mine charges a minimum of
$75/hour for any work. My plumber and handy man charged me around
$60/hour when they fixed my sink and hung some crown modeling. I kinda
think development warrants a higher price than plumbing.

Charlie

Cayce B. wrote:

You are correct. I’ve posted this before - a good discussion of why
pricing discussions in public forums should be avoided is at the HTML
Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/resources/faqs/priceFAQ.html

c.

Charlie H. wrote:

Discussing this in public is NOT price fixing.

I agree with you here and I’m glad you wrote this. I see now that the
link was provided to show why others didn’t want to discuss this, not
that it was price fixing. Sorry about that.

This price FAQ is more
about why a HTML Writer’s Guild won’t discuss prices. They’re just
trying to keep their libability to a minimum. It’s a big difference
between what we’re doing here and HTML Guild suggesting prices. That
would be price fixing. Better for them to stay away from it altogether.

We can let the Guild do what they want. It’s their choice to run their
forum the way they want. There is no such restriction here AFAIK.

Also, I would not have done what the Guild has done and wouldn’t
recommend it here. If I have the freedom to discuss something, then I
will. I do not apply a filter and surrender hard earned rights because
others are worried about some risk of liability. There are plenty of
things that are more risky and we do them without any trouble.

Out in the open is a great way to ensure there is no fixing. Offline,
closed doors, and you might run into trouble. Besides, who here can
really control prices? There are too many places to go for developers
to even try to fix a price. It would be a wasted effort.

I’d love to put this boogeyman to rest. If people want to reveal their
prices, go ahead. If you choose to be risk averse, don’t read this
thread and certainly don’t contribute to it!

I am not sure where you are located but in US disccusing prices can be
seen as price fixing and can cause a problem if I am not wrong(correct
me someone).

Why do people feel the need to keep saying this? No, talking with
other people, even competitors, about what a fair market price is,
does not constitute price fixing. And when the people in question are
a handful of developers with little experience just trying to research
the market value for their services, thinking it somehow even comes
close to price fixing is crazy.

LOL, nothing wrong with price-fixing… well… maybe morally… I doubt
the few posters here have any market-power (which would make it wrong)
:wink:

On 10/29/06, Cayce B. [email protected] wrote:

You are correct. I’ve posted this before - a good discussion of why
pricing discussions in public forums should be avoided is at the HTML
Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/resources/faqs/priceFAQ.html

I’m no attorney, but that FAQ has parts that are simply not true.
any discussion of prices by people in the same industry does not
constitute price fixing. It takes an agreement on pricing between
competitors to constitute price fixing. And that page is the page of
a guild, which is an association, which is different from just any
mailing list when it comes to restraint of trade issues. Most
associations do have policies about discussing pricing. Not because
doing so is illegal, but just to avoid letting it ever get that far or
having to constantly police it.

On 10/29/06, snacktime [email protected] wrote:

close to price fixing is crazy.
+1

Plus, you couldn’t fix prices like this if you wanted to. It’s not
even possible.

DHH could decree from on high an “Official Rails Developer Rate” and
it wouldn’t make a damn bit of difference. Ten minutes in an econ
class would explain why.

– James

Exactly - how can a bunch of RoR people be guilty of “price fixing”
when a customer is free to employ PHP, .NET, J2EE, … people to do
exactly the same job? It’s not like we have a monopoly on Web
development.

Now, if you’re talking about locking in existing RoR customers, for
whom it may be prohibitively expensive to rebuild their working RoR
apps in e.g. J2EE, you might have an argument. Even then, there’s
nothing preventing those customers from finding someone else and
having that person learn RoR as part of the assignment - it’s not like
us RoR guys hold the only magic keys to the kingdom.

In general, I give existing customers a lower rate, on the basis
that I know there won’t be a problem getting paid, that the working
conditions are a known quantity, that they won’t be looking over my
shoulder constantly questioning what I’m doing, that there’s that much
less of a chance of nasty surprises, etc.

Regards

Dave M.

You are correct. I’ve posted this before - a good discussion of why
pricing discussions in public forums should be avoided is at the HTML
Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/resources/faqs/priceFAQ.html

Last time it came up the HTML Writers Guid was debunked as urban myth.
It
even reads like a classic urban myth. There’s no useful legal
information
there.

Back in June Ted K. posted a link to a superb source on this one

the United States Department of Justice:

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title7/ant00007.htm

Given a choice between legal info from the DoJ, and complete nonsense
from
the HTML Writer’s Guild, I’d say go with the DoJ. But that’s just me.

Also take a look at:

http://www.ftc.gov/speeches/other/confbd4.htm

“If the industry structure is not conducive to coordination, perhaps
because
entry is easy or because a firm could cut prices in secret and steal
business from rivals, a court must recognize that it would be irrational
for
the firms to engage in the forbidden process which the courts term an
agreement, risking prosecution with no hope of gaining market power.”

  • James M.

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