Dvb-t/t2

GNU Radio
1

Hi,

With Rons help I got the DVB-T/T2 flowgraphs up and running.

DVB-T works great, no issues at all, while DVB-T2 is somehow flaky in
reception.

When using a cheap DVB-x tester, the DVB-T2 constellation is phase
shifted.
I have no real world T2 signals to compare, but at least the tester
shows
normal constellation views when looking at S and T signals off the air.

This is how things look:

http://dk5ras.dyndns.org/tmp/DVB/

The flowgraphs are almost original, just adopted to the USRP B210, and I
added channel slider…

Any ideas what I could tweak?

Ralph.

2

Hmm, now I see, there is an option “constellation rotation” in the
modulator
block. Maybe this is not an accident, but wanted behavior?! I will check
this evening…

Ralph.

From: dis[email protected]
[mailto:dis[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2015 06:39
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Discuss-gnuradio] DVB-T/T2

Hi,

With Rons help I got the DVB-T/T2 flowgraphs up and running.

DVB-T works great, no issues at all, while DVB-T2 is somehow flaky in
reception.

When using a cheap DVB-x tester, the DVB-T2 constellation is phase
shifted.
I have no real world T2 signals to compare, but at least the tester
shows
normal constellation views when looking at S and T signals off the air.

This is how things look:

http://dk5ras.dyndns.org/tmp/DVB/

The flowgraphs are almost original, just adopted to the USRP B210, and I
added channel slider…

Any ideas what I could tweak?

Ralph.

3

It is intended:

http://dcis2009.unizar.es/FILES/CR2/p41.pdf

So forget about my question :slight_smile:

Ralph.

From: dis[email protected]
[mailto:dis[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2015 07:04
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] DVB-T/T2

Hmm, now I see, there is an option “constellation rotation” in the
modulator
block. Maybe this is not an accident, but wanted behavior?! I will check
this evening…

Ralph.

From: dis[email protected]
[mailto:dis[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2015 06:39
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Discuss-gnuradio] DVB-T/T2

Hi,

With Rons help I got the DVB-T/T2 flowgraphs up and running.

DVB-T works great, no issues at all, while DVB-T2 is somehow flaky in
reception.

When using a cheap DVB-x tester, the DVB-T2 constellation is phase
shifted.
I have no real world T2 signals to compare, but at least the tester
shows
normal constellation views when looking at S and T signals off the air.

This is how things look:

http://dk5ras.dyndns.org/tmp/DVB/

The flowgraphs are almost original, just adopted to the USRP B210, and I
added channel slider…

Any ideas what I could tweak?

Ralph.

4

Discuss-gnuradio mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio

5

Yes, rotated constellations are a new feature of DVB-T2. More reading
here.

See section 9.2.3. In addition to the rotation, the I and Q components
of a QAM/QPSK symbol are cyclically delayed. Since there’s a time and a
frequency interleaver after the modulator, the I and Q components of a
symbol get sent at a different time and a different frequency (OFDM
carrier). Almost all DVB-T2 broadcasters turn this feature on, even with
256QAM. All DVB-T2 receivers must support rotated constellations.

Be sure to change the “Constellation rotation” parameter in both the
Modulator block and the Frame Mapper block, or the receiver will get
confused.

BTW, both the DVB-T2 and DVB-S2 transmitters will be included in GNU
Radio in the next release (3.7.7) as part of gr-dtv.

If you place a Scope Sink after the modulator, you can see the “virtual”
constellation mentioned in the link above.

Virtual 16QAM

Ron

6

The test clips have AC3 audio. AC3 is not used much at all in Europe
because broadcasters have to pay an extra licensing fee to Dolby to
transmit it. It looks like DVBViewer does not come with an AC3 decoder,
but you can add one.

Ron

7

Hi Ron,
I have not followed the development of DVB-T2/S2 lately. Are there
receiver implementations for the T2/S2 or just transmitters?
Thanks,
Bogdan

 On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 1:32 PM, "Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras"

[email protected] wrote:

#yiv0268530338 #yiv0268530338 – _filtered #yiv0268530338 {panose-1:2 4
5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0268530338
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{margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv0268530338
div.yiv0268530338WordSection1 {}#yiv0268530338 Great to hear that you
work finds its way into the official thing! At the moment, as the RF
stuff works, I am trying to learn about all this crazy video file stuff,
for being able to create transport streams with my own content. Up to
now I am still testing with the cartoon .ts :slight_smile: Still my laptop (with
DVBViewer software) will not decode the audio, while the DVB tester
decodes audio just fine. Ralph. From:
dis[email protected]
[mailto:dis[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Ron E.
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2015 8:14 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] DVB-T/T2 Yes, rotated constellations
are a new feature of DVB-T2. More reading here.

See section 9.2.3. In addition to the rotation, the I and Q components
of a QAM/QPSK symbol are cyclically delayed. Since there’s a time and a
frequency interleaver after the modulator, the I and Q components of a
symbol get sent at a different time and a different frequency (OFDM
carrier). Almost all DVB-T2 broadcasters turn this feature on, even with
256QAM. All DVB-T2 receivers must support rotated constellations.

Be sure to change the “Constellation rotation” parameter in both the
Modulator block and the Frame Mapper block, or the receiver will get
confused.

BTW, both the DVB-T2 and DVB-S2 transmitters will be included in GNU
Radio in the next release (3.7.7) as part of gr-dtv.

If you place a Scope Sink after the modulator, you can see the “virtual”
constellation mentioned in the link above.

RonOn 04/06/2015 10:14 PM, Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras wrote:
It is intended: http://dcis2009.unizar.es/FILES/CR2/p41.pdf So forget
about my question :slight_smile: Ralph. From:
dis[email protected]
[mailto:dis[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2015 07:04
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] DVB-T/T2 Hmm, now I see, there is an
option “constellation rotation” in the modulator block. Maybe this is
not an accident, but wanted behavior?! I will check this evening…
Ralph. From: dis[email protected]
[mailto:dis[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2015 06:39
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Discuss-gnuradio] DVB-T/T2 Hi, With Rons help I got the
DVB-T/T2 flowgraphs up and running. DVB-T works great, no issues at all,
while DVB-T2 is somehow flaky in reception. When using a cheap DVB-x
tester, the DVB-T2 constellation is phase shifted. I have no real world
T2 signals to compare, but at least the tester shows normal
constellation views when looking at S and T signals off the air. This is
how things look: http://dk5ras.dyndns.org/tmp/DVB/ The flowgraphs are
almost original, just adopted to the USRP B210, and I added channel
slider… Any ideas what I could tweak? Ralph.

8

Ok, it would be useful to have receivers too like for the DVB-T.

Bogdan

 On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 11:23 PM, Ron E. <[email protected]>

wrote:

Only transmitter implementations for now. They are here:

GitHub - drmpeg/gr-dvbs2: A DVB-S2 and DVB-S2X transmitter for GNU Radio

GitHub - drmpeg/gr-dvbt2: A DVB-T2 transmitter for GNU Radio

The DVB-T2 implementation supports T2-Lite, tone reservation PAPR
reduction and MISO processing.

Ron

On 04/07/2015 06:38 AM, Bogdan D. wrote:

Hi Ron,
I have not followed the development of DVB-T2/S2 lately. Are there
receiver implementations for the T2/S2 or just transmitters?
Thanks,
Bogdan

   On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 1:32 PM, "Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras"

[email protected] wrote:

#yiv5839327111 – filtered {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2
4;}#yiv5839327111 filtered {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4
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{margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv5839327111
div.yiv5839327111WordSection1 {}#yiv5839327111 Great to hear that you
work finds its way into the official thing! At the moment, as the RF
stuff works, I am trying to learn about all this crazy video file stuff,
for being able to create transport streams with my own content. Up to
now I am still testing with the cartoon .ts :slight_smile: Still my laptop (with
DVBViewer software) will not decode the audio, while the DVB tester
decodes audio just fine. Ralph.

9

Only transmitter implementations for now. They are here:

The DVB-T2 implementation supports T2-Lite, tone reservation PAPR
reduction and MISO processing.

Ron

10

Yep, this would be quite useful!

Bogdan, as you are here, too - I don’t know very much about all the
crazy video file stuff, but maybe you can give me some basic parameters
I need to comply with for a transport stream, to be able to transmit it
with your package?! I need to use Windows for the conversion, as my
Linux installation is only on a virtual machine, with limited space and
power. A capable looking Windows program is available, but there are so
many options I have no clue about :frowning:

I modified your flow graph according to Rons hints, and now I have a
stable and reliable DVB-T transmission path with your package. See
http://dk5ras.dyndns.org/tmp/DVB/ with a screenshot. I am using the
Ettus B210, and for reception a second PC with DVB-T stick, or a DVB-x
tester that does them all, DVB-C/S/S2/T/T2.

You and Ron really did a great job with coding those DVB-x packages!

Ralph.

From: dis[email protected]
[mailto:dis[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Bogdan D.
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 8:01 AM
To: Ron E.; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] DVB-T/T2

Ok, it would be useful to have receivers too like for the DVB-T.

Bogdan

On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 11:23 PM, Ron E. <[email protected]
mailto:[email protected] > wrote:

Only transmitter implementations for now. They are here:

The DVB-T2 implementation supports T2-Lite, tone reservation PAPR
reduction and MISO processing.

Ron

On 04/07/2015 06:38 AM, Bogdan D. wrote:

Hi Ron,

I have not followed the development of DVB-T2/S2 lately. Are there
receiver implementations for the T2/S2 or just transmitters?

Thanks,

Bogdan

On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 1:32 PM, “Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras”
mailto:[email protected] [email protected] wrote:

Great to hear that you work finds its way into the official thing!

At the moment, as the RF stuff works, I am trying to learn about all
this crazy video file stuff, for being able to create transport streams
with my own content. Up to now I am still testing with the cartoon .ts
:slight_smile: Still my laptop (with DVBViewer software) will not decode the audio,
while the DVB tester decodes audio just fine.

Ralph.

11

The DVB-T2 transmitter repository is here:

In the README, there are links to test transport streams for a few
representative flow graphs.

gr-dvbt2 is also part of pybombs.

Ron

12

Hi Ralph,
DVB-T.png shows some u’s on the command line which means the whole
flowgraph do not provide data to USRP at the right speed. It basically
mean the computer cannot cope with the required processing requirement.

As for the video parameters, in the DVB-T specs
(http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_en/300700_300799/300744/01.06.01_60/en_300744v010601p.pdf)
you will find Table 17 where the rates are presented. FYI, the settings
you have used are 8Mhz bandwidth, QAM-16 constellation, coding 1/2,
guard interval 1/32. The video should be constant bit rate but it is not
a hard requirement (see below).

If you just broadcast video from a file and not plan to use a live
streaming from camera, the rate should not matter too much. The video is
sent at the rate of the DVB-T according to it’s parameters and with
RTL2832 receiver it is buffered and played at the correct speed (at
least for short files like test.ts).
Bogdan

 On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 11:55 AM, "Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras"

[email protected] wrote:

#yiv3233999861 #yiv3233999861 – _filtered #yiv3233999861
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div.yiv3233999861WordSection1 {}#yiv3233999861 Yep, this would be quite
useful!

Bogdan, as you are here, too - I don’t know very much about all the
crazy video file stuff, but maybe you can give me some basic parameters
I need to comply with for a transport stream, to be able to transmit it
with your package?! I need to use Windows for the conversion, as my
Linux installation is only on a virtual machine, with limited space and
power. A capable looking Windows program is available, but there are so
many options I have no clue about :frowning: I modified your flow graph
according to Rons hints, and now I have a stable and reliable DVB-T
transmission path with your package. See
http://dk5ras.dyndns.org/tmp/DVB/ with a screenshot. I am using the
Ettus B210, and for reception a second PC with DVB-T stick, or a DVB-x
tester that does them all, DVB-C/S/S2/T/T2. You and Ron really did a
great job with coding those DVB-x packages! Ralph. From:
dis[email protected]
[mailto:dis[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Bogdan D.
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 8:01 AM
To: Ron E.; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] DVB-T/T2 Ok, it would be useful to have
receivers too like for the DVB-T. Bogdan On Tuesday, April 7, 2015
11:23 PM, Ron E. [email protected] wrote: Only transmitter
implementations for now. They are here:

The DVB-T2 implementation supports T2-Lite, tone reservation PAPR
reduction and MISO processing.

RonOn 04/07/2015 06:38 AM, Bogdan D. wrote:
Hi Ron, I have not followed the development of DVB-T2/S2 lately. Are
there receiver implementations for the T2/S2 or just transmitters?
Thanks,Bogdan On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 1:32 PM, “Ralph A. Schmid,
dk5ras” [email protected] wrote: Great to hear that you work finds its
way into the official thing! At the moment, as the RF stuff works, I am
trying to learn about all this crazy video file stuff, for being able to
create transport streams with my own content. Up to now I am still
testing with the cartoon .ts :slight_smile: Still my laptop (with DVBViewer
software) will not decode the audio, while the DVB tester decodes audio
just fine. Ralph.

Discuss-gnuradio mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio

13

Hi,

The Us are when I do something else with the machine. They do not show
when I keep my fingers off the mouse, so no reason to worry, it runs for
ages without a single U when the machine is kept alone.

I already found out about the rate. The coding also needs to be
reflected by the transport stream, or just regarding the bitrate? I did
not find a setting for that, but I will look deeper into it during the
next days, when I find some time. My first test trying to set identical
settings like from the working test stream brought just a black picture.

Another question…when looking into the constellation, what are the two
dot clouds on the X/I-axis, outside the expected 4*4 cloud matrix? Some
embedded BPSK? I could not find this in the DVB-T specs at first
glance…

Ralph.

From: Bogdan D. [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 2:57 PM
To: Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras; ‘Ron E.’; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] DVB-T/T2

Hi Ralph,

DVB-T.png shows some u’s on the command line which means the whole
flowgraph do not provide data to USRP at the right speed. It basically
mean the computer cannot cope with the required processing requirement.

As for the video parameters, in the DVB-T specs
(http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_en/300700_300799/300744/01.06.01_60/en_300744v010601p.pdf)
you will find Table 17 where the rates are presented. FYI, the settings
you have used are 8Mhz bandwidth, QAM-16 constellation, coding 1/2,
guard interval 1/32. The video should be constant bit rate but it is not
a hard requirement (see below).

If you just broadcast video from a file and not plan to use a live
streaming from camera, the rate should not matter too much. The video is
sent at the rate of the DVB-T according to it’s parameters and with
RTL2832 receiver it is buffered and played at the correct speed (at
least for short files like test.ts).

Bogdan

On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 11:55 AM, “Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras”
<[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > wrote:

Yep, this would be quite useful!

Bogdan, as you are here, too - I don’t know very much about all the
crazy video file stuff, but maybe you can give me some basic parameters
I need to comply with for a transport stream, to be able to transmit it
with your package?! I need to use Windows for the conversion, as my
Linux installation is only on a virtual machine, with limited space and
power. A capable looking Windows program is available, but there are so
many options I have no clue about :frowning:

I modified your flow graph according to Rons hints, and now I have a
stable and reliable DVB-T transmission path with your package. See
http://dk5ras.dyndns.org/tmp/DVB/ with a screenshot. I am using the
Ettus B210, and for reception a second PC with DVB-T stick, or a DVB-x
tester that does them all, DVB-C/S/S2/T/T2.

You and Ron really did a great job with coding those DVB-x packages!

Ralph.

From: dis[email protected]
mailto:dis[email protected]
[mailto:dis[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Bogdan D.
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 8:01 AM
To: Ron E.; [email protected]
mailto:[email protected]
Subject: Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] DVB-T/T2

Ok, it would be useful to have receivers too like for the DVB-T.

Bogdan

On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 11:23 PM, Ron E. <[email protected]
mailto:[email protected] > wrote:

Only transmitter implementations for now. They are here:

The DVB-T2 implementation supports T2-Lite, tone reservation PAPR
reduction and MISO processing.

Ron

On 04/07/2015 06:38 AM, Bogdan D. wrote:

Hi Ron,

I have not followed the development of DVB-T2/S2 lately. Are there
receiver implementations for the T2/S2 or just transmitters?

Thanks,

Bogdan

On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 1:32 PM, “Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras”
mailto:[email protected] [email protected] wrote:

Great to hear that you work finds its way into the official thing!

At the moment, as the RF stuff works, I am trying to learn about all
this crazy video file stuff, for being able to create transport streams
with my own content. Up to now I am still testing with the cartoon .ts
:slight_smile: Still my laptop (with DVBViewer software) will not decode the audio,
while the DVB tester decodes audio just fine.

Ralph.

14

Hi Ralf,
having Us when moving the mouse does not looks good. Can you show a
picture taken with htop (on Linux).

the coding is a setting of the transmitter and receiver and it just need
to be the same on both. It does impact the maximum bitrate of the stream
as in the table.

Look into the 4.5.4 and 4.5.5 chapters. It says that reference
information is sent at “boosted” power level with imaginary equal zero.
This is what you see in the two dots on left and right.
Bogdan

 On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 5:34 PM, "Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras"

[email protected] wrote:

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div.yiv2904105420WordSection1 {}#yiv2904105420 Hi, The Us are when I
do something else with the machine. They do not show when I keep my
fingers off the mouse, so no reason to worry, it runs for ages without a
single U when the machine is kept alone.
I already found out about the rate. The coding also needs to be
reflected by the transport stream, or just regarding the bitrate? I did
not find a setting for that, but I will look deeper into it during the
next days, when I find some time. My first test trying to set identical
settings like from the working test stream brought just a black picture.
Another question…when looking into the constellation, what are the
two dot clouds on the X/I-axis, outside the expected 4*4 cloud matrix?
Some embedded BPSK? I could not find this in the DVB-T specs at first
glance… Ralph. From: Bogdan D.
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 2:57 PM
To: Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras; ‘Ron E.’; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] DVB-T/T2 Hi Ralph, DVB-T.png shows
some u’s on the command line which means the whole flowgraph do not
provide data to USRP at the right speed. It basically mean the computer
cannot cope with the required processing requirement. As for the video
parameters, in the DVB-T specs
(http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_en/300700_300799/300744/01.06.01_60/en_300744v010601p.pdf)
you will find Table 17 where the rates are presented. FYI, the settings
you have used are 8Mhz bandwidth, QAM-16 constellation, coding 1/2,
guard interval 1/32. The video should be constant bit rate but it is not
a hard requirement (see below). If you just broadcast video from a file
and not plan to use a live streaming from camera, the rate should not
matter too much. The video is sent at the rate of the DVB-T according to
it’s parameters and with RTL2832 receiver it is buffered and played at
the correct speed (at least for short files like test.ts). Bogdan On
Wednesday, April 8, 2015 11:55 AM, “Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras”
[email protected] wrote: Yep, this would be quite useful!

Bogdan, as you are here, too - I don’t know very much about all the
crazy video file stuff, but maybe you can give me some basic parameters
I need to comply with for a transport stream, to be able to transmit it
with your package?! I need to use Windows for the conversion, as my
Linux installation is only on a virtual machine, with limited space and
power. A capable looking Windows program is available, but there are so
many options I have no clue about :frowning: I modified your flow graph
according to Rons hints, and now I have a stable and reliable DVB-T
transmission path with your package. See
http://dk5ras.dyndns.org/tmp/DVB/ with a screenshot. I am using the
Ettus B210, and for reception a second PC with DVB-T stick, or a DVB-x
tester that does them all, DVB-C/S/S2/T/T2. You and Ron really did a
great job with coding those DVB-x packages! Ralph. From:
dis[email protected]
[mailto:dis[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Bogdan D.
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 8:01 AM
To: Ron E.; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] DVB-T/T2 Ok, it would be useful to have
receivers too like for the DVB-T. Bogdan On Tuesday, April 7, 2015
11:23 PM, Ron E. [email protected] wrote: Only transmitter
implementations for now. They are here:

The DVB-T2 implementation supports T2-Lite, tone reservation PAPR
reduction and MISO processing.

RonOn 04/07/2015 06:38 AM, Bogdan D. wrote:
Hi Ron, I have not followed the development of DVB-T2/S2 lately. Are
there receiver implementations for the T2/S2 or just
transmitters? Thanks,Bogdan On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 1:32 PM, “Ralph
A. Schmid, dk5ras” [email protected] wrote: Great to hear that you work
finds its way into the official thing! At the moment, as the RF stuff
works, I am trying to learn about all this crazy video file stuff, for
being able to create transport streams with my own content. Up to now I
am still testing with the cartoon .ts :slight_smile: Still my laptop (with DVBViewer
software) will not decode the audio, while the DVB tester decodes audio
just fine. Ralph.

Discuss-gnuradio mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio

15

Hi,

Don’t be worried by the Us, I am running the whole thing in a virtual
machine that lives on a Windows tablet PC, so it is normal that Linux
stutters a bit when Windows claims its rights. I just must not touch
Windows, and everything is fine.

OK, so I just need to set the correct bitrate, and the stream should
run. Great. Can I keep frame rate as it is from the original video? And
what do the stream ID fields for video and audio mean?

My version of the specs does not have the mentioned chapters, but I have
already guessed something like this. It just made me curious because the
constellation plots in the specs do not show this. Ah, here, the stuff
linked in Wikipedia is what you referred to. My documents seem newer,
but different. tr_101190v010302p.pdf and ts_102831v010201p.pdf

Ralph.

From: Bogdan D. [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 17:13
To: Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras; ‘Ron E.’; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] DVB-T/T2

Hi Ralf,

having Us when moving the mouse does not looks good. Can you show a
picture taken with htop (on Linux).

the coding is a setting of the transmitter and receiver and it just need
to be the same on both. It does impact the maximum bitrate of the stream
as in the table.

Look into the 4.5.4 and 4.5.5 chapters. It says that reference
information is sent at “boosted” power level with imaginary equal zero.
This is what you see in the two dots on left and right.

Bogdan

On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 5:34 PM, “Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras”
[email protected] wrote:

Hi,

The Us are when I do something else with the machine. They do not show
when I keep my fingers off the mouse, so no reason to worry, it runs for
ages without a single U when the machine is kept alone.

I already found out about the rate. The coding also needs to be
reflected by the transport stream, or just regarding the bitrate? I did
not find a setting for that, but I will look deeper into it during the
next days, when I find some time. My first test trying to set identical
settings like from the working test stream brought just a black picture.

Another question…when looking into the constellation, what are the two
dot clouds on the X/I-axis, outside the expected 4*4 cloud matrix? Some
embedded BPSK? I could not find this in the DVB-T specs at first
glance…

Ralph.

From: Bogdan D. [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 2:57 PM
To: Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras; ‘Ron E.’; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] DVB-T/T2

Hi Ralph,

DVB-T.png shows some u’s on the command line which means the whole
flowgraph do not provide data to USRP at the right speed. It basically
mean the computer cannot cope with the required processing requirement.

As for the video parameters, in the DVB-T specs
(http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_en/300700_300799/300744/01.06.01_60/en_300744v010601p.pdf)
you will find Table 17 where the rates are presented. FYI, the settings
you have used are 8Mhz bandwidth, QAM-16 constellation, coding 1/2,
guard interval 1/32. The video should be constant bit rate but it is not
a hard requirement (see below).

If you just broadcast video from a file and not plan to use a live
streaming from camera, the rate should not matter too much. The video is
sent at the rate of the DVB-T according to it’s parameters and with
RTL2832 receiver it is buffered and played at the correct speed (at
least for short files like test.ts).

Bogdan

On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 11:55 AM, “Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras”
[email protected] wrote:

Yep, this would be quite useful!

Bogdan, as you are here, too - I don’t know very much about all the
crazy video file stuff, but maybe you can give me some basic parameters
I need to comply with for a transport stream, to be able to transmit it
with your package?! I need to use Windows for the conversion, as my
Linux installation is only on a virtual machine, with limited space and
power. A capable looking Windows program is available, but there are so
many options I have no clue about :frowning:

I modified your flow graph according to Rons hints, and now I have a
stable and reliable DVB-T transmission path with your package. See
http://dk5ras.dyndns.org/tmp/DVB/ with a screenshot. I am using the
Ettus B210, and for reception a second PC with DVB-T stick, or a DVB-x
tester that does them all, DVB-C/S/S2/T/T2.

You and Ron really did a great job with coding those DVB-x packages!

Ralph.

From: dis[email protected]
[mailto:dis[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Bogdan D.
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 8:01 AM
To: Ron E.; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] DVB-T/T2

Ok, it would be useful to have receivers too like for the DVB-T.

Bogdan

On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 11:23 PM, Ron E. [email protected]
wrote:

Only transmitter implementations for now. They are here:

The DVB-T2 implementation supports T2-Lite, tone reservation PAPR
reduction and MISO processing.

Ron

On 04/07/2015 06:38 AM, Bogdan D. wrote:

Hi Ron,

I have not followed the development of DVB-T2/S2 lately. Are there
receiver implementations for the T2/S2 or just transmitters?

Thanks,

Bogdan

On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 1:32 PM, “Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras”
mailto:[email protected] [email protected] wrote:

Great to hear that you work finds its way into the official thing!

At the moment, as the RF stuff works, I am trying to learn about all
this crazy video file stuff, for being able to create transport streams
with my own content. Up to now I am still testing with the cartoon .ts
:slight_smile: Still my laptop (with DVBViewer software) will not decode the audio,
while the DVB tester decodes audio just fine.

Ralph.

16

Short update: I was able to transmit my own stream now, audio stuttered
a bit, but for sure I will find out how to fix this. It was a short
iPhone video of a snake in front of our office (we do not have so much
snakes here in Germany), and it was fun seeing this transmitted via
DVB-T :slight_smile:

Ralph.

From: Bogdan D. [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 5:13 PM
To: Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras; ‘Ron E.’; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] DVB-T/T2

Hi Ralf,

having Us when moving the mouse does not looks good. Can you show a
picture taken with htop (on Linux).

the coding is a setting of the transmitter and receiver and it just need
to be the same on both. It does impact the maximum bitrate of the stream
as in the table.

Look into the 4.5.4 and 4.5.5 chapters. It says that reference
information is sent at “boosted” power level with imaginary equal zero.
This is what you see in the two dots on left and right.

Bogdan

On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 5:34 PM, “Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras”
<[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > wrote:

Hi,

The Us are when I do something else with the machine. They do not show
when I keep my fingers off the mouse, so no reason to worry, it runs for
ages without a single U when the machine is kept alone.

I already found out about the rate. The coding also needs to be
reflected by the transport stream, or just regarding the bitrate? I did
not find a setting for that, but I will look deeper into it during the
next days, when I find some time. My first test trying to set identical
settings like from the working test stream brought just a black picture.

Another question…when looking into the constellation, what are the two
dot clouds on the X/I-axis, outside the expected 4*4 cloud matrix? Some
embedded BPSK? I could not find this in the DVB-T specs at first
glance…

Ralph.

From: Bogdan D. [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 2:57 PM
To: Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras; ‘Ron E.’; [email protected]
mailto:[email protected]
Subject: Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] DVB-T/T2

Hi Ralph,

DVB-T.png shows some u’s on the command line which means the whole
flowgraph do not provide data to USRP at the right speed. It basically
mean the computer cannot cope with the required processing requirement.

As for the video parameters, in the DVB-T specs
(http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_en/300700_300799/300744/01.06.01_60/en_300744v010601p.pdf)
you will find Table 17 where the rates are presented. FYI, the settings
you have used are 8Mhz bandwidth, QAM-16 constellation, coding 1/2,
guard interval 1/32. The video should be constant bit rate but it is not
a hard requirement (see below).

If you just broadcast video from a file and not plan to use a live
streaming from camera, the rate should not matter too much. The video is
sent at the rate of the DVB-T according to it’s parameters and with
RTL2832 receiver it is buffered and played at the correct speed (at
least for short files like test.ts).

Bogdan

On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 11:55 AM, “Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras”
<[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > wrote:

Yep, this would be quite useful!

Bogdan, as you are here, too - I don’t know very much about all the
crazy video file stuff, but maybe you can give me some basic parameters
I need to comply with for a transport stream, to be able to transmit it
with your package?! I need to use Windows for the conversion, as my
Linux installation is only on a virtual machine, with limited space and
power. A capable looking Windows program is available, but there are so
many options I have no clue about :frowning:

I modified your flow graph according to Rons hints, and now I have a
stable and reliable DVB-T transmission path with your package. See
http://dk5ras.dyndns.org/tmp/DVB/ with a screenshot. I am using the
Ettus B210, and for reception a second PC with DVB-T stick, or a DVB-x
tester that does them all, DVB-C/S/S2/T/T2.

You and Ron really did a great job with coding those DVB-x packages!

Ralph.

From: dis[email protected]
mailto:dis[email protected]
[mailto:dis[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Bogdan D.
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 8:01 AM
To: Ron E.; [email protected]
mailto:[email protected]
Subject: Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] DVB-T/T2

Ok, it would be useful to have receivers too like for the DVB-T.

Bogdan

On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 11:23 PM, Ron E. <[email protected]
mailto:[email protected] > wrote:

Only transmitter implementations for now. They are here:

The DVB-T2 implementation supports T2-Lite, tone reservation PAPR
reduction and MISO processing.

Ron

On 04/07/2015 06:38 AM, Bogdan D. wrote:

Hi Ron,

I have not followed the development of DVB-T2/S2 lately. Are there
receiver implementations for the T2/S2 or just transmitters?

Thanks,

Bogdan

On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 1:32 PM, “Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras”
mailto:[email protected] [email protected] wrote:

Great to hear that you work finds its way into the official thing!

At the moment, as the RF stuff works, I am trying to learn about all
this crazy video file stuff, for being able to create transport streams
with my own content. Up to now I am still testing with the cartoon .ts
:slight_smile: Still my laptop (with DVBViewer software) will not decode the audio,
while the DVB tester decodes audio just fine.

Ralph.

17

Hey guys, why does digital video need its own standard?

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 7:45 PM, Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras

18

Ralph, good to hear that you were able to stream with DVB-T.

BTW, Clayton used DVB-T to stream video for several miles and he put it
on his blog: Digital amateur TV on 70cm, 33cm and 23cm

You may find it useful.
Bogdan

 On Thursday, April 9, 2015 12:46 PM, "Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras"

[email protected] wrote:

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div.yiv0015152668WordSection1 {}#yiv0015152668 Short update: I was able
to transmit my own stream now, audio stuttered a bit, but for sure I
will find out how to fix this. It was a short iPhone video of a snake in
front of our office (we do not have so much snakes here in Germany), and
it was fun seeing this transmitted via DVB-T :slight_smile: Ralph. From: Bogdan
Diaconescu [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 5:13 PM
To: Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras; ‘Ron E.’; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] DVB-T/T2 Hi Ralf, having Us when
moving the mouse does not looks good. Can you show a picture taken with
htop (on Linux). the coding is a setting of the transmitter and
receiver and it just need to be the same on both. It does impact the
maximum bitrate of the stream as in the table. Look into the 4.5.4 and
4.5.5 chapters. It says that reference information is sent at “boosted”
power level with imaginary equal zero. This is what you see in the two
dots on left and right. Bogdan On Wednesday, April 8, 2015
5:34 PM, “Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras” [email protected] wrote: Hi, The
Us are when I do something else with the machine. They do not show when
I keep my fingers off the mouse, so no reason to worry, it runs for ages
without a single U when the machine is kept alone.

I already found out about the rate. The coding also needs to be
reflected by the transport stream, or just regarding the bitrate? I did
not find a setting for that, but I will look deeper into it during the
next days, when I find some time. My first test trying to set identical
settings like from the working test stream brought just a black picture.
Another question…when looking into the constellation, what are the
two dot clouds on the X/I-axis, outside the expected 4*4 cloud matrix?
Some embedded BPSK? I could not find this in the DVB-T specs at first
glance… Ralph. From: Bogdan D.
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 2:57 PM
To: Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras; ‘Ron E.’; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] DVB-T/T2 Hi Ralph, DVB-T.png shows some
u’s on the command line which means the whole flowgraph do not provide
data to USRP at the right speed. It basically mean the computer cannot
cope with the required processing requirement. As for the video
parameters, in the DVB-T specs
(http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_en/300700_300799/300744/01.06.01_60/en_300744v010601p.pdf)
you will find Table 17 where the rates are presented. FYI, the settings
you have used are 8Mhz bandwidth, QAM-16 constellation, coding 1/2,
guard interval 1/32. The video should be constant bit rate but it is not
a hard requirement (see below). If you just broadcast video from a file
and not plan to use a live streaming from camera, the rate should not
matter too much. The video is sent at the rate of the DVB-T according to
it’s parameters and with RTL2832 receiver it is buffered and played at
the correct speed (at least for short files like test.ts). Bogdan On
Wednesday, April 8, 2015 11:55 AM, “Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras”
[email protected] wrote: Yep, this would be quite useful!

Bogdan, as you are here, too - I don’t know very much about all the
crazy video file stuff, but maybe you can give me some basic parameters
I need to comply with for a transport stream, to be able to transmit it
with your package?! I need to use Windows for the conversion, as my
Linux installation is only on a virtual machine, with limited space and
power. A capable looking Windows program is available, but there are so
many options I have no clue about :frowning: I modified your flow graph
according to Rons hints, and now I have a stable and reliable DVB-T
transmission path with your package. See
http://dk5ras.dyndns.org/tmp/DVB/ with a screenshot. I am using the
Ettus B210, and for reception a second PC with DVB-T stick, or a DVB-x
tester that does them all, DVB-C/S/S2/T/T2. You and Ron really did a
great job with coding those DVB-x packages! Ralph. From:
dis[email protected]
[mailto:dis[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Bogdan D.
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 8:01 AM
To: Ron E.; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] DVB-T/T2 Ok, it would be useful to have
receivers too like for the DVB-T. Bogdan On Tuesday, April 7, 2015
11:23 PM, Ron E. [email protected] wrote: Only transmitter
implementations for now. They are here:

The DVB-T2 implementation supports T2-Lite, tone reservation PAPR
reduction and MISO processing.

RonOn 04/07/2015 06:38 AM, Bogdan D. wrote:
Hi Ron, I have not followed the development of DVB-T2/S2 lately. Are
there receiver implementations for the T2/S2 or just
transmitters? Thanks,Bogdan On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 1:32 PM, “Ralph
A. Schmid, dk5ras” [email protected] wrote: Great to hear that you work
finds its way into the official thing! At the moment, as the RF stuff
works, I am trying to learn about all this crazy video file stuff, for
being able to create transport streams with my own content. Up to now I
am still testing with the cartoon .ts :slight_smile: Still my laptop (with DVBViewer
software) will not decode the audio, while the DVB tester decodes audio
just fine. Ralph.

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