On 7 May 2006, at 1:59 am, Ajai Khattri wrote:
Ah, but O’Reilly have a nice upgrade policy:
http://www.oreilly.com/order/upgrade.html
…as long as you live in the US.
Kerry
On Sat, May 06, 2006 at 08:59:03PM -0400, Ajai Khattri wrote:
Ah, but O’Reilly have a nice upgrade policy:
http://www.oreilly.com/order/upgrade.html
I always did like O’Reilly. Oddly this is the first I’ve heard of their
upgrade policy. Is the upgrade policy only good for true O’Reilly books
or
for any books purchased from O’Reilly? I searched for Rails books on
the
O’Reilly site and it appears that AWDR can be purchased from O’Reilly.
The
book qualifies for free shipping and they even have a buy two books, get
one
free offer. I will definitely keep O’Reilly in mind when expanding my
Rails
library.
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX
Justin F. wrote:
That looks exactly right… I didn’t know, and there are quite a few
O’Reilly books I’ve bought more than one edtion of (I still have the
first edition of Java in a Nutshell!).
I probably have more O’Reilly books (incl. multiple editions of several)
than anyone here 
Kevin M. wrote:
I always did like O’Reilly. Oddly this is the first I’ve heard of their
upgrade policy. Is the upgrade policy only good for true O’Reilly books or
for any books purchased from O’Reilly?
Dont know.
I searched for Rails books on the
O’Reilly site and it appears that AWDR can be purchased from O’Reilly.
There is no official O’Reilly Rails book though one is slated for a July
release (along with a Ruby book too).
The
book qualifies for free shipping and they even have a buy two books, get one
free offer. I will definitely keep O’Reilly in mind when expanding my Rails
library.
Its no wonder they are popular.
Dave T. wrote:
I’d like to think that the beta program adds value to the community,
and that even though it hurts our sales of the first edition
considerably by preannouncing the second edition 5 months out, we’re
doing the right thing by you all.
IMHO you are doing the right thing by us all. Still, Pragmatic
Programmers should not have to apologize for being a for-profit
organization!
This thread has me worried that perhaps I was naive in this, and I’m
distressed that something I thought was good for us all is generating
so much apparent heartache.
I don’t know who is getting heartaches or indigestion from this. I for
one am glad AWDR II is available – I bought the PDF-only beta as soon
as I found it had been released.I’m genuinely sorry that I seem to have caused so much angst—I
thought folks would actually be excited.
I honestly don’t think anyone on this list should be complaining about
anything associated with Pragmatic Programmers. You made a business
decision. The last time I looked that’s the way our economy operates.
–
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky
Dave T. wrote:
This thread has me worried that perhaps I was naive in this, and I’m
distressed that something I thought was good for us all is generating
so much apparent heartache.
Dave,
I have the first edition of AWDR - it is a fantastic book and my copy is
already becoming very well thumbed indeed. I have also bought into the
PDF beta programme, which is a brilliant idea and very worthwhile, and I
shall be grabbing a printed copy of the 2nd edition as soon as it hits
the shelves. I would have taken advantage of the combo offer, but
shipping charges make it more econonomical for me to buy AWDR II in the
UK.
Remember that some people will moan no matter what you do for them or
how hard you try - like any critics they are best ignored. Keep up the
good work, and my heartfelt thanks both to you and DHH.
Mick S.
On 5/7/06, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky [email protected] wrote:
Dave T. wrote:
I’m genuinely sorry that I seem to have caused so much angst—I
thought folks would actually be excited.
I honestly don’t think anyone on this list should be complaining about
anything associated with Pragmatic Programmers. You made a business
decision. The last time I looked that’s the way our economy operates.
Not to drag this off topic, but another element of our economy is
consumer opinion. If consumers don’t like the business decision, they
can speak out. People might say, “Well if you don’t want it then just
don’t buy it,” but that’s only part of the equation. We can choose to
vote with our wallets as well as explain why we’re doing so.
I ended up buying the combo back. Still, everyone has the right to
criticize the decision if they want to.
Pat
Guys,
Can we please lay this thread to rest?
Summary of responses so far:
- it costs too much
- no it doesn’t
It’s PAINFULLY clear there’s dissent on this, and it’s even more
painfully clear that no-one’s about to change their mind if they’ve
already made a decision about whether to buy this book or not.
Anyone who hasn’t yet made the decision now has ample info on which to
base their decision. The PragProg guys also have ample input to let
them decide whether their pricing model is appropriate or not, and
will get more when they look at the sales figures for the 2 versions
going forward.
What exactly do any of us stand to gain by adding our 2c worth at this
point?
Regards
Dave M.
P.S. How do you spell econonomical? :o
Hi,
I’m a big O’Reilly fan – but I usually buy their books from amazon -
usually a bit cheaper and its easier for me…
What is the O’Reilly upgrade policy?
Cheers,
Pat
Pat L. wrote:
Hi,
I’m a big O’Reilly fan – but I usually buy their books from amazon -
usually a bit cheaper and its easier for me…What is the O’Reilly upgrade policy?
Its documented on the URL in that posting.
–
David M. wrote:
Summary of responses so far:
- it costs too much
- no it doesn’t
That’s a matter of personal opinion - you can’t speak for everyone in
the whole community.
So dont.
–
80 posts according to Gmail.
This isn’t actually the worst waste of time I’ve seen in my life. It
isn’t even the worst waste of time I’ve seen in my inbox this year.
This one music-related mailing list I used to be on actually got to
106 posts about whether or not you could lose weight by drinking your
own pee.
But honestly, 80 posts?
Yeesh!
–
Giles B.
http://www.gilesgoatboy.org
Ok, now save us some time and tell us whether or wether not we lose
weight
by purchaising AWDR2.
Dave T. wrote:
I’m genuinely sorry that I seem to have caused so much angst—I
thought folks would actually be excited.
Angst is good. It shows commitment. What’s bad is unjustified sense of
entitlement. Let’s face it, no one is entitled to anything here. The
offer to late buyers of AWDwR1 of free PDF copy ofADWwR2 is an act of
publisher goodwill. Perhaps motivated by the desire to avert a
potentially huge backlash if the late buyers were not to be given any
amelioration at all. But no matter the motivation.
<< the mere act of announcing this book is already costing
us money in sales that we would have made on first edition book and
with returns from bookstores of existing first edition stock.
A promise to book copy buyers of free PDF copy of the beta second
edition at pre-announcement might have helped stave off the sudden
drying up of sales. This offer of course would have an effect on future
cash from the PDF version, but at least the expensive current hard copy
stock will move, and probably move faster. Maybe not. RoR enthusiasts
are a savvy breed; they know that six months into the release of the
book copy, it’s just out of it and perhaps would not even run with the
latest RoR and the pre-announcement wouldn’t have made much difference
anyway (I’m guessing here).
The problem here, as I see it, is the fast pace of change in RoR itself,
exacerbated by what I think is a premature book copy edition. Had there
been no book copy, the second PDF edition could come out within six
months, and compensations would be easy to settle, and no returns to
deal with. While RoR is still vigorously undergoing changes, a plain
vanilla text hard copy documentation is good enough (for me). After all,
it’s a Dave T. book, and whether it is published by O’Reilly or
written on napkins, it is a Dave T. book.
.02
On May 5, 2006, at 12:40 PM, Gene K. wrote:
are an asset – they believe in the product even if incomplete, if
happy
they are effective word-of-mouthers, they provide cash even when the
product is unfinished, they provide info to the company of the
interest
in the product.I’d like to think that the beta program adds value to the community,
and that even though it hurts our sales of the first edition
considerably by preannouncing the second edition 5 months out, we’re
doing the right thing by you all.Please understand this point: with all this talk about saving $5 on
an upgrade, the mere act of announcing this book is already costing
us money in sales that we would have made on first edition book and
with returns from bookstores of existing first edition stock. We knew
this going in: we honestly wanted to continue to be a good member of
the community and go with the beta program despite the financial costs.This thread has me worried that perhaps I was naive in this, and I’m
distressed that something I thought was good for us all is generating
so much apparent heartache.I’m genuinely sorry that I seem to have caused so much angst—I
thought folks would actually be excited.Dave
Yeah, but we get rails for free right?
I’ll be honest, I’m only getting the hang of rails so there’s no
question that I need the Second edition. This will be my 4th one
including David Black’s “Ruby for Rails”. But I did buy the Rails
Recipes PDF + hard cover along with the ruby book (at full price since
overseas shipping kills any discount).
I’ll probably buy the PDF + hard copy of Rails 2nd edition as well but
it does hurt my pockets badly being a student abroad. The PDF feels a
bit expensive no matter how you cut it but the immediacy of info makes
it necessary.
This second edition is a godsend because the first edition is just too
out of date. I appreciate the effort made by the authors to keep the
literature current in almost real time–rewriting a book must feel
like beating a dead horse for authors that have been there and done
that.
This book will be what introduces rails to the next batch of rails
developers. The contribution of this will no doubt influence rails
development in the immediate future.
It’s also coming hot on the heels of O’Reilly’s first release on rails
too. That speaks for itself. Hopefully, by the time the third
edition comes out, I’ll be well-versed in the source not to need it or
earn this money back many times over.
Just do me a favor and use this quote from Bill Gates in the second
edition because it is so appropriate and hilarious for the irony:
“Software is providing power, but software has got to provide
simplicity.”
Bill Gates, 2006 International Consumer Electronics Show
http://www.microsoft.com/billgates/default.asp
Unfortunately that gives you only 30% off list and discount bookstores
like bookpool.com give you routinely 33% - 50% off list and you don’t
pay sales tax either.
-bakki
On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 03:23:45AM +0200, Mick S. wrote:
P.S. How do you spell econonomical? :o
Like many words I spell economical, if that was the word you were trying
for, with the help of:
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX