Forum: Ruby on Rails TDD for Rails book?

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A0c079a7c3c9b2cf0bffebd84dc578b0?d=identicon&s=25 unknown (Guest)
on 2006-05-21 16:14
(Received via mailing list)
It seems like half the people on this list are writing a book on Ruby
or Rails. For all the hints I've seen strewn across the list I have
yet to see one that will focus on test-driven development for either
Ruby or for Rails.

If anyone is looking for a topic, please consider this. I've been
trying to wrap my brain around the TDD process, but its way of
thinking is still too foreign for me to be any good at it. I've read
Kent Beck's TEST-DRIVEN DEVELOPMENT BY EXAMPLE book. The examples are
nice and (mostly) clear but what still confuses me is the thinking
process that drives the evolution of the code from one state to
another via a set of tests (the whole red-light/green-light thing).

And if anyone is already working on a book with this as its focus,
please feel free to chime up in this thread and get yourself some
publicity. A pointer to a blog with examples or to a pre-release PDF
would be most appreciated. :-)

cr
455ac2a64d06dc8461f4d258d7f7e980?d=identicon&s=25 Michael Trier (Guest)
on 2006-05-21 16:17
(Received via mailing list)
+1
675475d0b65710be6d992eb5eb2c61c2?d=identicon&s=25 Gregory Seidman (Guest)
on 2006-05-21 16:54
(Received via mailing list)
On Sun, May 21, 2006 at 09:12:54AM -0500, cremes.devlist@mac.com wrote:
} It seems like half the people on this list are writing a book on Ruby
} or Rails. For all the hints I've seen strewn across the list I have
} yet to see one that will focus on test-driven development for either
} Ruby or for Rails.
}
} If anyone is looking for a topic, please consider this. I've been
} trying to wrap my brain around the TDD process, but its way of
} thinking is still too foreign for me to be any good at it. I've read
} Kent Beck's TEST-DRIVEN DEVELOPMENT BY EXAMPLE book. The examples are
} nice and (mostly) clear but what still confuses me is the thinking
} process that drives the evolution of the code from one state to
} another via a set of tests (the whole red-light/green-light thing).
}
} And if anyone is already working on a book with this as its focus,
} please feel free to chime up in this thread and get yourself some
} publicity. A pointer to a blog with examples or to a pre-release PDF
} would be most appreciated. :-)
}
} cr

+1
8f153c7bcf3ef5865370564513965cf4?d=identicon&s=25 Dave Pawson (Guest)
on 2006-05-21 17:00
(Received via mailing list)
On 21/05/06, Gregory Seidman <gsslist+ror@anthropohedron.net> wrote:
> } nice and (mostly) clear but what still confuses me is the thinking
> } process that drives the evolution of the code from one state to
> } another via a set of tests (the whole red-light/green-light thing).
> }
> } And if anyone is already working on a book with this as its focus,
> } please feel free to chime up in this thread and get yourself some
> } publicity. A pointer to a blog with examples or to a pre-release PDF
> } would be most appreciated. :-)



http://www.awprofessional.com/bookstore/product.as...
worked for me.
The initial TDD book was OK, this put it into a broader perspective.

HTH

--
Dave Pawson
XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
http://www.dpawson.co.uk
455ac2a64d06dc8461f4d258d7f7e980?d=identicon&s=25 Michael Trier (Guest)
on 2006-05-21 17:03
(Received via mailing list)
Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out.

Michael
E98de78bb42013c488fe8aa9d77d2cb1?d=identicon&s=25 Steve Odom (Guest)
on 2006-05-21 17:06
(Received via mailing list)
+1
5301cef77ec4942463fae0ba820b6b57?d=identicon&s=25 Tim Case (Guest)
on 2006-05-21 17:31
(Received via mailing list)
Oddly enough I thought this book, "Extreme Programming Adventures in
C# " by Ron Jeffries was the best explanation of TDD in action, most
books on TDD focus on it at the very detailed line by line code level
and don't provide the big picture overview of how TDD fits into the
entire development process.

Still I always find something lacking in the TDD books I've read, it
may be one of the more difficult things to explain in isolation.  What
helps a lot is to see the tests as they develop for a complete
project, and most don't want to write a book like that.

Extreme Programming Adventures in C# was different in that it took
that other approach.
B780ee0ee1480454a85df58536702f63?d=identicon&s=25 Alder Green (Guest)
on 2006-05-21 18:54
(Received via mailing list)
On 5/21/06, cremes.devlist@mac.com <cremes.devlist@mac.com> wrote:
> process that drives the evolution of the code from one state to
> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>

Sigh. Though being unoriginal is a sin, I'd have to follow suite here:

+1
D4e51fd9554030ab55c379fdc1a34826?d=identicon&s=25 Keith Lancaster (klancaster)
on 2006-05-21 20:08
unknown wrote:
> It seems like half the people on this list are writing a book on Ruby
> or Rails. For all the hints I've seen strewn across the list I have
> yet to see one that will focus on test-driven development for either
> Ruby or for Rails.
>

I guess count me in as one of the 1/2 of the folks on the list that are
working on a Rails book :-)

I have been in preliminary discussions with a publisher for a book on
Rails testing, and am currently finishing off a sample chapter and
outline for them. My general plan is to cover a wide range of testing
methods as they apply to Rails, including unit, integration, system,
performance, scalability, and even usability testing. I'm hoping to fill
in gaps that I've seen in other material on Rails and testing in
general. TDD is a design/development method that has as a "side effect"
(as Ambler puts it) of giving you thorough unit tests, so I plan to
cover it from that standpoint, and to discuss how it fits into an
overalll testing/quality strategy. So it might not be quite what you
were looking for, but still might be of some value.

BTW, I'd be interested in any specific areas that people would have
interest in seeing covered that are testing (or TDD) related.

Keith
Eea3feaacbe44706164289d068d94828?d=identicon&s=25 Peter Michaux (Guest)
on 2006-05-21 20:29
(Received via mailing list)
Hi Keith,

I would really like to read a detailed book about tests for Rails
development. Thick and in depth with many examples and everything.
Options of how to use tests with pros and cons for the choices and
"authors choice" markers.

For me, the problem with the Agile Rails book is in the Depot tutorial
testing comes last. I understand why they did that and it was a good
choice. No point in overloading the Rails newbie with too much all at
once. But having the tests last in this example left me with some
problems in using tests daily.

When I am writing a Rails app, I start with a vague idea of what I
want to do and make a lot of changes along the way. Changes to
everything: db tables, models, controllers and views. Partly this is
because the original way I think of doing something isn't the path of
least resistance to "the rails way" of doing things. Eventually I get
to a point where I think my code is fairly succinct. If I had been
writing tests all along the way I would not have just rewritten my
rails app four to eight times, I would also have rewritten my tests
four to eight times. That is a lot of extra work and has lead me to
think tests should be written after the applicaiton. But there is the
wrinkle. When is _after_ the application? I will always be changing
things and then have to change my tests. And tests are not really as
easy to write as the actual rails app.

If you write a tutorial of building an app where the tests are written
first and the programmer changes his mind along the way about how
things are done then I would be a happy customer of yours:)

- Peter
B84d42a3a5c343f8fc6ab7d7f47fd3f5?d=identicon&s=25 Robby Russell (Guest)
on 2006-05-22 00:48
(Received via mailing list)
On May 21, 2006, at 7:12 AM, cremes.devlist@mac.com wrote:

> the thinking process that drives the evolution of the code from one
> state to another via a set of tests (the whole red-light/green-
> light thing).
>
> And if anyone is already working on a book with this as its focus,
> please feel free to chime up in this thread and get yourself some
> publicity. A pointer to a blog with examples or to a pre-release
> PDF would be most appreciated. :-)
>
> cr
>

My book... Programming Rails covers TDD and Rails. :-)

RoughCuts is in the not-so-distant future...

http://www.programmingrails.com/



--
Robby Russell
Founder & Executive Director

PLANET ARGON, LLC
Ruby on Rails Development, Consulting & Hosting

www.planetargon.com
www.robbyonrails.com

+1 503 445 2457
+1 877 55 ARGON [toll free]
+1 815 642 4968 [fax]
D61a2db96e73acf66b0b18688a39ecfb?d=identicon&s=25 Obie Fernandez (Guest)
on 2006-05-22 01:28
(Received via mailing list)
My book for Addison Wesley, Professional Ruby on Rails Developer's
Guide also covers TDD and Rails extensively. RoughCut perhaps by late
summer, in print around RubyConf time.

I just got cover art this week and I'll be making an official
announcement very soon.

Obie Fernandez
www.obiefernandez.com
30ee518e6fdc5b07e060775b5a542bdb?d=identicon&s=25 Jón Borgþórsson (jongretar)
on 2006-05-22 02:22
(Received via mailing list)
Boy....  There are a lot of you guys writing books here. :)

On 5/21/06, Obie Fernandez <obiefernandez@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/21/06, Robby Russell <robby.lists@planetargon.com> wrote:
> > > thinking is still too foreign for me to be any good at it. I've
> > >
> >
> > +1 503 445 2457
> Rails mailing list
> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>


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