Hi all, I'm asking this question from the standpoint of a developer with almost 10 years experience with Microsoft technologies, mostly doing server side component and database work. So, I'm not very familiar with the java world. Can anyon tell me how/if java development can complement Ruby on Rails development? I'm not interested in how java can duplicate Rails functionality, but things like whether or not it makes sense to develop server-side components in java to leverage in Rails apps. Is Rails by itself a complete solution? Does ruby and Rails make java obsolete?
on 2006-05-15 01:12
on 2006-05-15 01:39
For some things I still find Java to be useful and easier to do things with. (before I get flammed) This is mainly because of the VAST amount of libraries written in the Java world. If you have thought about, it's probably been done. Ruby isn't quite there yet, but I'm sure it will once the popularity gets going. For a practicle example, for the search process of things on a site I did recently was done with Java Lucene (a very well written/thoroughly tested framework). I was almost able to this completly with Ruby (using Ferret) but due to some minor niggles, was unable to. Java still has its place. Ruby is gradually building its own place. Some (I agree) think Ruby's place is easier to get around and has a better/simplier layout. -Nick
on 2006-05-15 03:29
Hi, I have 1 controller with several actions and i need to show a layout for some actions and another one for the others. Any ideas?? Thanks, _______________________ Diego D. Lapiduz www.sinai.com.ar firstname.lastname@example.org
on 2006-05-15 04:21
On Sun, May 14, 2006 at 10:27:07PM -0300, Diego Lapiduz wrote: > I have 1 controller with several actions and i need to show a layout > for some actions and another one for the others. > > Any ideas?? There's a way to specify which layout you want to use for a particular render. I can't remember if it's on the render call or if there's a include/exclude option on the layout call, but it's in the API manual -- that's how I found it when I needed it a few months ago. - Matt
on 2006-05-15 04:37
It is possible to do this with render :layout => 'yourlayout' - Marius
on 2006-05-15 04:40
On 5/14/06, Matthew Palmer <email@example.com> wrote: > > - Matt > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails > Here's what I do: class MyController < ApplicationController layout :choose_layout protected def choose_layout if [ 'signup', 'register' ].include? action_name 'application' else 'owners' end end end Pat
on 2006-05-15 06:54
I believe Java can absolutely complement Ruby on Rails, especially when running JRuby on Rails (which works now for the OnLamp.com "Rolling with Rails" cookbook app). Tying in JDBC behind ActiveRecord, wiring up existing Java components and services, deploying Rails and J2EE apps side-by-side. It's a win for both camps, and it's running better and better every day. I believe that while Java and J2EE provide very powerful services for a deep, heavy, multi-server business tier, it still sucks royally for anything related to web applications. With JRuby, there's a real potential now to run not only independent Rails apps on the JVM, but Rails apps as the web frontend for an entire enterprise of services, with all the management, clustering, replication, and failover those services provide. Getting Rails to run on JRuby was only the beginning. Figuring out how best to use Rails on the JVM...that's even more exciting.
on 2006-05-15 07:19
Hi, eventhough Java has a vast number of libraries, it doesn't mean these libraries are needed within Ruby. Also, Java is nice but Ruby shouldn't try to be like Java. People tend to forget the VM came from Smalltalk not Java. Also, one doesn't need to or have to use Java and J2EE for a deep, heavy, and multi-server business tier. In short, Ruby should simply be Ruby and this leads to success in my mind evolved from some of the best features of GREAT languages (i.e. Smalltalk, LISP, and so on). -Conrad
on 2006-05-15 07:50
Terry Donaghe wrote: > Rails make java obsolete? Greetings. And welcome to the Light Side. I'm speaking from the role of a Microsoft (on step 5 / 12 in MCSD Anonymous) and J2EE application programmer. I have had some extensive experience with all this stuff...and the wheels have been turning trying to figure it all out... I believe that Ruby and Rails could make future development faster and simpler. However, there are a huge amount of java apps out there. Hopefully they've been well written and communicate in a well-structured manner with a database. If you can assume these conditions, you should be able to design and write a very decent RoR front-end to a java-backed database quickly and get rid of your jsp stuff. :) I am actually trying to determine how to do this with a large J2EE app. For new development, I think you could do much of what J2EE apps do in the background, on the server-side, with pure Ruby. Then similarly use the Rails framework for the web front-end portion. As another person pointed out, this could be probably be determined based on the amount of available libraries to perform the required functionality. Java might be best, Ruby might be best. (I suppose, if you wanted, you could even use a .NET or legacy MS dev environment for this...for those S&M types out there.) If you had to code it from scratch, I would have to say Ruby would have a huge advantage in my book. Honestly you could use a different language behind each application server / web service if you *really* wanted to. But...damn! (Hope you have good mental health insurance, you'll need it.) Regardless, I see no reason they couldn't co-exist. In fact someone had asked about a traditional three-tier solution a while back. I see J2EE / Ruby Application Servers as a portion of this. If you have some complex (or lengthy) application logic, utilize the Rails front-end to drop an event into a monitored table and let an application server process it, reporting progress / completion to be fed back to the front-end. Clean. Fast. Tier 1 - Database Server (Postgres / MySQL / MSSQL / etc) Tier 2 - J2EE (JBoss / WEBSphere / etc) -or- Ruby Applications (Web Services, perhaps) Tier 3 - RoR (standard front-end) However, I wouldn't always make internal Tier 3 call through Tier 2 to hit the databases... You *could* implement that if you were paranoid or obsessive-compulsive... (Or even just had standards better than mine...) I don't consider it worth the overhead... And if people are working on my systems they will damn well follow my guidelines or risk staying late with me...and buying me dinner... :) Seriously though, this is called "Agile Communications" (ok I probably just made that up) and should be practiced regularly. Anything the "outside world" accesses would be accessed through a Web Service at Tier 2 so I could control it. I hope to have it working within the year. :) -Curtis
on 2006-05-15 18:04
On May 15, 2006, at 12:46 AM, Curtis Spendlove wrote: > Tier 1 - Database Server (Postgres / MySQL / MSSQL / etc) > Tier 2 - J2EE (JBoss / WEBSphere / etc) -or- Ruby Applications (Web > Services, perhaps) > Tier 3 - RoR (standard front-end) Where I'm at, we have a Whole Lot of Java code that we're not going to dump anytime soon. I've found that rjb coupled with RMI is a very thin solution to interop. rjb allows me to embed a Java VM *inside* my Ruby process. From there I call the client side of our RMI API to talk to the rest of our code. I wrote a require_jvm helper to make grabbing Java classes easier; the whole layer between Java and Ruby is about 50 lines of code (plus the rjb extension). If embedding a Java VM in your Ruby process feels distasteful, check out Hessian. It implements a binary RPC protocol over HTTP. There is a Ruby gem implementing the client side of it. I found it was pretty easy to get going. I highly recommend this stuff. If anyone is interested, I can go into further details.  http://mvm.therealadam.com/articles/2006/03/26/enterprise- integration-with-ruby-saves-my-ass  http://www.caucho.com/hessian/ -- ~akk http://therealadam.com
on 2006-05-16 00:48
Adam Keys wrote: > > Where I'm at, we have a Whole Lot of Java code that we're not going > to dump anytime soon. I've found that rjb coupled with RMI is a > very thin solution to interop. > > rjb allows me to embed a Java VM *inside* my Ruby process. From > there I call the client side of our RMI API to talk to the rest of > our code. I wrote a require_jvm helper to make grabbing Java classes > easier; the whole layer between Java and Ruby is about 50 lines of > code (plus the rjb extension). > Does it means it could be quite easy to do some interaction between a rails app and, let's say, a java search engine ? In that case (interfacing with a search engine, I take this example because it's easier for me to understand) what is the Java architecture counterpart ? I hope it does not mean running a Tomcat instance just to have access to the Java services ? Is there a 'lighter' solution ?
on 2006-05-16 14:14
This has been discussed about before. Do a search for Lucene and/or Ferret and you should get some results. I've also written about my experinces as well: http://blog.nicholasstuart.com/articles/2006/02/11...
on 2006-05-16 14:33
I'm working on a very large Ruby on Rails application (dare I say it - enterprisey?), but there are a few things that I needed to do in .NET. I know that it's not Java, but from what I understand the technologies are similar (I've never touched Java at all). The main thing was interacting with my organizations Active Directory. Instead of going through the trouble of making sure my production linux server was part of the domain and could access the Active directory, I just stuck a secure webservice up with the two functions I needed and call those from my Controllers. While not the most beautiful solution, it does allow me to continue building things quickly. So in that sense, .NET really helped in building my RoR application. Josh