Forum: Ruby Ruby IDE

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931d5cc3b6fcb9e740ad2846db11a9ba?d=identicon&s=25 SleepJunk13 (Guest)
on 2006-04-26 00:47
Is there a standard IDE out there that most people use? I'm looking at
Mondrian and Arachno now, but I'm not sure which. I'm also looking at
FreeRIDE as well, but I don't know.

Thanks a lot,

Matt
A90204c955db033cd975f7bb0ec9600b?d=identicon&s=25 Ashley Moran (Guest)
on 2006-04-26 00:55
(Received via mailing list)
On Apr 25, 2006, at 11:47 pm, SleepJunk13 wrote:

> Is there a standard IDE out there that most people use? I'm looking at
> Mondrian and Arachno now, but I'm not sure which. I'm also looking at
> FreeRIDE as well, but I don't know.


Try www.radrails.org

Or you could buy an iMac and TextMate :)

Ashley
C475cffda1800fbc3f3af17bc10c220f?d=identicon&s=25 Curt Hibbs (Guest)
on 2006-04-26 00:55
(Received via mailing list)
On 4/25/06, SleepJunk13 <SleepJunk13@gmail.com> wrote:
> Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
>
> There is also the RDT plugin for Eclipse, and RadRails (which is also
based on Eclipse *and* the RDT plugin). Finally, there is ActiveState's
Komodo IDE.

Curt
931d5cc3b6fcb9e740ad2846db11a9ba?d=identicon&s=25 SleepJunk13 (Guest)
on 2006-04-26 00:55
>>Try www.radrails.org

Or you could buy an iMac and TextMate :)<<

I know of RadRails. I use it to work on my Rails apps, but it's testing
and debugging isn't great. I don't need rails support in what I'm doing.
Just a nice ruby editor.

Thanks, though :)
4b174722d1b1a4bbd9672e1ab50c30a9?d=identicon&s=25 Ryan Leavengood (Guest)
on 2006-04-26 01:10
(Received via mailing list)
On 4/25/06, SleepJunk13 <SleepJunk13@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I know of RadRails. I use it to work on my Rails apps, but it's testing
> and debugging isn't great. I don't need rails support in what I'm doing.
> Just a nice ruby editor.

Myself and a lot of other people swear by VIM (www.vim.org) for Ruby
editing and for most other editing. It can take a while to learn, but
once you do it is extremely powerful. It is also available on just
about every OS you can imagine. Today at work I did Java coding on
Windows using VIM, then just now I did some Ruby coding on Windows at
home, and later I'll be coding C++ on BeOS using VIM. I started using
it on Linux.

Plus once you know VIM you'll be able to use the standard vi installed
on most Unixes (though you'll miss all the nice VIM features.)

Regards,
Ryan
Ad4caa46eebe9347305177fc33468563?d=identicon&s=25 Mike Nelson (Guest)
on 2006-04-26 02:27
Ryan Leavengood wrote:
> Myself and a lot of other people swear by VIM (www.vim.org) for Ruby
> editing and for most other editing. It can take a while to learn, but
> once you do it is extremely powerful.

I agree vim is very nice. A bit of a ramp up to learn the basics but
well worth it.

Btw, are there any cool auto-completion scripts out there for Ruby?
704d736b074ebff7d0a4e9b003400e74?d=identicon&s=25 Werner Bohl (werner-bohl)
on 2006-04-26 03:07
When discussing Ruby IDEs, nobody has ever mentioned KDE Develop or
Quanta.
Latested versions of these have good ruby support.

Werner

SleepJunk13 wrote:
> Is there a standard IDE out there that most people use? I'm looking at
> Mondrian and Arachno now, but I'm not sure which. I'm also looking at
> FreeRIDE as well, but I don't know.
>
> Thanks a lot,
>
> Matt
34f159f89cbd1d9beac0276f5a7af552?d=identicon&s=25 John Gabriele (Guest)
on 2006-04-26 03:22
(Received via mailing list)
On 4/25/06, Ryan Leavengood <leavengood@gmail.com> wrote:
> Windows using VIM, then just now I did some Ruby coding on Windows at
> home, and later I'll be coding C++ on BeOS using VIM. I started using
> it on Linux.

I've been using vim for light stuff for a while now, but it seems
inconsistent to me, and has been difficult to get used to. That is,
commands can take a number of different forms:

:set foo
:foo on
nfoo
:%foo

Plus there's some commands you hit while in command mode, but then
others with ctrl characters while in insert mode (like Ctrl-d). Wait
though -- there's also some ctrl chars while in command mode too.

Besides that, in general I find myself slowed down constantly hitting
Ctrl-[, forgetting whether I'm in command mode or not. Either that, or
I'm filling my files with ":w" or ">>" or "i", "b", "w"...

Regarding FreeRIDE, I think development on it has slowed lately
because they're working on getting wxRuby together. I believe that
future versions of FreeRIDE will probably use wxWidgets instead of
FOX.

> Plus once you know VIM you'll be able to use the standard vi installed
> on most Unixes (though you'll miss all the nice VIM features.)
>

What tends to keep me coming back is vim's smart syntax highlighting.
It guesses how to syntax highlight different system config files very
well.

That said, on the desktop, so far, I've found NEdit to be most useful.
C1bcb559f87f356698cfad9f6d630235?d=identicon&s=25 Hal Fulton (Guest)
on 2006-04-26 03:25
(Received via mailing list)
Werner Bohl wrote:
> When discussing Ruby IDEs, nobody has ever mentioned KDE Develop or
> Quanta.
> Latested versions of these have good ruby support.


I don't know what Quanta is. I thought KDE Develop was just
a GUI designer, is that not true?


Hal
86e33dee4a89a8879a26487051c216a8?d=identicon&s=25 Michael Fellinger (Guest)
on 2006-04-26 03:56
(Received via mailing list)
Yes there are, but only for VIM7 afaik, which is available for most
platforms
as well.
http://blog.hasno.info/blog/segfault/dev/2006/04/1...

I've also made a small collection of neat scripts/styles and bundled
them for
my own use.
http://www.manveru.net/stuff/best_of_ruby_for_vim.tar.gz
This provides you for example with a nice :Ri command, auto-insertion of
ends
and closes closures like '' "" () [] {} ||.
There are still some little bugs in there that might need a fix, but so
far
i'm pretty satisfied :)

also, to auto-indent a whole file type
gg=G

btw, a page that helped me a lot is http://jmcpherson.org/editing.html -
he
covers most of the useful commands
also be sure to check out vimtutor, which should be installed when you
install
vim automatically.

Hope that helps :)
E34b5cae57e0dd170114dba444e37852?d=identicon&s=25 Logan Capaldo (Guest)
on 2006-04-26 04:17
(Received via mailing list)
On Apr 25, 2006, at 9:20 PM, John Gabriele wrote:

>> editing and for most other editing. It can take a while to learn, but
> :set foo
> :foo on
> nfoo
> :%foo
>
> Plus there's some commands you hit while in command mode, but then
> others with ctrl characters while in insert mode (like Ctrl-d). Wait
> though -- there's also some ctrl chars while in command mode too.
>

Can't argue with that

> Besides that, in general I find myself slowed down constantly hitting
> Ctrl-[, forgetting whether I'm in command mode or not. Either that, or
> I'm filling my files with ":w" or ">>" or "i", "b", "w"...
>
You're in command mode unless the bottom says
--INSERT--
or
--VISUAL--

I find ESC to be much faster than Ctrl-[, YMMV.
245cfab887781bdf3f53178b794c42dc?d=identicon&s=25 Alexandru E. Ungur (Guest)
on 2006-04-26 09:12
(Received via mailing list)
> > once you do it is extremely powerful. It is also available on just
> :foo on
> nfoo
> :%foo
<just kidding ;)>
You can say what you want OR
what you want, you can say but HEY
that won't stop you to say what you really want is it? :P

I mean, did you ever stop talking in English (or any other language for
that matter) just because there's more than just one way/more ways/many
ways/not just one way (oh dear God, I'm confusing myself... this
English language is so hard, just like Vim... so many options...) to
express things... ? I don't think so...
</;)>

> Plus there's some commands you hit while in command mode, but then
> others with ctrl characters while in insert mode (like Ctrl-d). Wait
> though -- there's also some ctrl chars while in command mode too.
>
> Besides that, in general I find myself slowed down constantly hitting
> Ctrl-[, forgetting whether I'm in command mode or not. Either that, or
> I'm filling my files with ":w" or ">>" or "i", "b", "w"...
Being a 3 months Vim newbie, I had that problem too not too long ago (at
least in the first 2-3 days anyway...) so after digging around a little
I came up with a rather nice solution to it: I use the entire
statusbar's
background color to tell me where I am: RED background == edit mode,
GREEN
background == normal mode.
Works like a charm ;)

You better try the Ruby autocompletion as well:
http://blog.hasno.info/blog/segfault/dev/2006/04/1...
If you like syntax highlight, you'll love that ;)


All the best,
Alex
567898c496278341be69087507d5ed24?d=identicon&s=25 Jeff Rose (Guest)
on 2006-04-26 10:37
(Received via mailing list)
John Gabriele wrote:
>> home, and later I'll be coding C++ on BeOS using VIM. I started using
>
> Plus there's some commands you hit while in command mode, but then
> others with ctrl characters while in insert mode (like Ctrl-d). Wait
> though -- there's also some ctrl chars while in command mode too.
>
> Besides that, in general I find myself slowed down constantly hitting
> Ctrl-[, forgetting whether I'm in command mode or not. Either that, or
> I'm filling my files with ":w" or ">>" or "i", "b", "w"...

I guess there might be a few inconsistencies, but what drew me to vim
was pretty much the opposite feeling.  Most editors have seemingly
random key bindings for running commands, and although they stay the
same because you are always in one mode, they are rarely as powerful as
vim.  For example, the whole concept of filtering ranges of text through
commands is really genius.  It mixes in perfectly with the unix
mentality, and it lets you compose your own commands from a simple set
of primitives.  Sure, it might take a little practice to get the
commands down, but then you can mix and match to create virtually
infinite numbers of combinations.  That's just not possible or at least
not natural in other editors, and I used emacs for about 5 years before
my conversion...  Beyond that, you can program it in ruby!

On that note, I have been working on a ruby plugin, SnippetMagic, for
vim that provides snippets functionality ala TextMate.  It's not method
completion, but it's a sort of programmable macro system.  You can read
descriptions and download it here:
http://blog.rosejn.net/articles/2006/02/28/snippetmagic-0-02

-Jeff
032840ea43aa284451ad8d19b3a32ddb?d=identicon&s=25 Jonas Hartmann (Guest)
on 2006-04-26 11:19
(Received via mailing list)
SleepJunk13 wrote:
> Is there a standard IDE out there that most people use? I'm looking at
> Mondrian and Arachno now, but I'm not sure which. I'm also looking at
> FreeRIDE as well, but I don't know.
>
> Thanks a lot,
>
> Matt
>

Try jEdit with Ruby

http://jedit.org/
http://rubyjedit.org/
931d5cc3b6fcb9e740ad2846db11a9ba?d=identicon&s=25 SleepJunkie (Guest)
on 2006-04-26 14:10
Jonas Hartmann wrote:
> SleepJunk13 wrote:
>> Is there a standard IDE out there that most people use? I'm looking at
>> Mondrian and Arachno now, but I'm not sure which. I'm also looking at
>> FreeRIDE as well, but I don't know.
>>
>> Thanks a lot,
>>
>> Matt
>>
>
> Try jEdit with Ruby
>
> http://jedit.org/
> http://rubyjedit.org/

I'll take a look at jEdit later when I get home. I started using a trial
of Komodo last night and I like that. Have you seen any problems with
it?
52a177e9dbd3e614825aabc4e45f8cd6?d=identicon&s=25 Mark Volkmann (Guest)
on 2006-04-26 14:54
(Received via mailing list)
On 4/26/06, Alexandru E. Ungur <alexandru@globalterrasoft.ro> wrote:

> I came up with a rather nice solution to it: I use the entire statusbar's
> background color to tell me where I am: RED background == edit mode, GREEN
> background == normal mode.

Can you share what you put in your .vimrc to configure that?
E3ca69382186f5bce8b43ff5f0cb2287?d=identicon&s=25 kate rhodes (Guest)
on 2006-04-26 15:54
(Received via mailing list)
jedit is nice. i use it all the time and it's got a few ruby plugins
(although i forget what they do).
Also there's SubEthaEdit if you're on a mac. The previous version is
available free for non-commercial use.


-Kate
245cfab887781bdf3f53178b794c42dc?d=identicon&s=25 Alexandru E. Ungur (Guest)
on 2006-04-26 15:58
(Received via mailing list)
>>> sender: "Mark Volkmann" date: "Wed, Apr 26, 2006 at 09:51:45PM +0900" <<<EOQ
> On 4/26/06, Alexandru E. Ungur <alexandru@globalterrasoft.ro> wrote:
>
> > I came up with a rather nice solution to it: I use the entire statusbar's
> > background color to tell me where I am: RED background == edit mode, GREEN
> > background == normal mode.
>
> Can you share what you put in your .vimrc to configure that?
Sure, here you go:

--- .vimrc excerpt for statusbar highlighting ---
" Only do this part when compiled with support for autocommands,
" You better have Vim7 'cause this does all the magic :)
if has("autocmd")
  augroup InsertStatus
    au InsertEnter * hi StatusLine term=inverse,bold cterm=inverse,bold
ctermfg=red ctermbg=white
    au InsertLeave * hi StatusLine term=inverse,bold cterm=inverse,bold
ctermfg=green ctermbg=white
  augroup END
endif

" ensure statusline is always shown
set ls=2
" custom statusline
set statusline=%<file[%n]:\ %f\ %y%=\ %3lx%02c\ [%1*%M%*%R%H]\ %2P\
" initial statusline highlighting
hi StatusLine   term=inverse,bold cterm=inverse,bold ctermfg=green
ctermbg=white
hi StatusLineNC term=inverse,bold cterm=inverse,bold ctermfg=gray
hi User1 term=inverse,bold cterm=inverse,bold ctermfg=red
--- end ---

Adjust the colors as you see fit. I noticed the green looks too ugly on
plain xterm, but I use Terminal
(http://www.os-cillation.com/index.php?id=42&L=5)
and it looks quite nice there.

BTW, you also get a 'red spot' on the green statusbar when you have
unsaved changes, that feels nice too ;)


Good luck,
Alex
F5b3c1ebfb2e9fc5f67bb48b119f6054?d=identicon&s=25 Randy Kramer (Guest)
on 2006-04-26 16:13
(Received via mailing list)
On Wednesday 26 April 2006 04:33 am, Jeff Rose wrote:
> For example, the whole concept of filtering ranges of text through
> commands is really genius.  It mixes in perfectly with the unix
> mentality, and it lets you compose your own commands from a simple set
> of primitives.

Can you give an example?  The reason I ask is that I'm wondering if that
is
something fundamentally better / different than the macro language
facility
in nedit.  With that, you can select some text, then run a macro against
it
to do almost anything you want.

(You do have to write the macro, but nedit also has keystroke recording
which
can give you a good start on many macros.  (Almost??) every keyboard
command
is available in the macro language, along with others which have no
keyboard
counterpart (the first example that comes to mind are looping
constructs.)

Randy Kramer
828dc634f7493008dbc96c437e54ea2f?d=identicon&s=25 Chris Scharf (scharfie)
on 2006-04-26 16:24
kate rhodes wrote:
> jedit is nice. i use it all the time and it's got a few ruby plugins
> (although i forget what they do).
> Also there's SubEthaEdit if you're on a mac. The previous version is
> available free for non-commercial use.
>
>
> -Kate

I use jEdit all the time, and I've found a number of very useful
plugins:
  Ruby plugin (of course)
  BufferTabs
  Project Viewer
  Fast Open
  SuperAbbrevs - TextMate snippet-like functionality
  Editor Scheme - create color schemes

One thing - on Windows, the Monaco font )which I believe is the default
for TextMate) with anti-aliasing looks really bad.  A better choice
would be Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.
63e5a5c299c29f41a55bb6cab0153230?d=identicon&s=25 unknown (Guest)
on 2006-04-26 16:57
(Received via mailing list)
> Besides that, in general I find myself slowed down constantly hitting
> Ctrl-[, forgetting whether I'm in command mode or not. Either that, or
> I'm filling my files with ":w" or ">>" or "i", "b", "w"...

The Ctrl-[ thing is interesting to me, because I've never heard of
anyone else escaping that way.  Out of curiosity, is your control key
in the corner of your keyboard, or next to the 'a' key?  For me, with
my control key right by my 'a' key, hitting ctrl-[ is really quick and
easy.  The escape key is just too far off the home row for me to bother
with :)
34f159f89cbd1d9beac0276f5a7af552?d=identicon&s=25 John Gabriele (Guest)
on 2006-04-26 16:58
(Received via mailing list)
On 4/25/06, Logan Capaldo <logancapaldo@gmail.com> wrote:
> --VISUAL--
Right. Maybe I just haven't gotten into the habit of glancing down at
the bottom of the window. It seems to me to take less concentration to
just hit Ctrl-[ than to quickly look down and lose/find my place on
the page.

> I find ESC to be much faster than Ctrl-[, YMMV.
>

I use a funky programmable keyboard which only has a tiny rubber Esc
button up away from the main keys. (
http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/contoured.htm ). So Ctrl-[ turns out to be
faster for me.
34f159f89cbd1d9beac0276f5a7af552?d=identicon&s=25 John Gabriele (Guest)
on 2006-04-26 17:51
(Received via mailing list)
On 4/26/06, tsuraan@tsuraan.net <tsuraan@tsuraan.net> wrote:
> > Besides that, in general I find myself slowed down constantly hitting
> > Ctrl-[, forgetting whether I'm in command mode or not. Either that, or
> > I'm filling my files with ":w" or ">>" or "i", "b", "w"...
>
> The Ctrl-[ thing is interesting to me, because I've never heard of
> anyone else escaping that way.  Out of curiosity, is your control key
> in the corner of your keyboard, or next to the 'a' key? For me, with
> my control key right by my 'a' key, hitting ctrl-[ is really quick and
> easy.  The escape key is just too far off the home row for me to bother
> with :)

On the Contoured keyboard (see link in my previous post), you hit the
control keys (and alt keys, and a few others) with your thumbs. It's
symmetrical, so you can use either thumb.

The escape key is way up to the top left side of the keyboard and is
just a little rubber nub of a key, about 6 mm X 9 mm, and is not
useful for regular use. You have to take your left hand off the home
row to reach it (and hope you hit it instead of one of the also tiny
rubber F-keys).

Incidentally, I type using the dvorak layout, and on my keyboard the
'[' is in a fairly awkward position (2 rows down from the home row on
my right ring finger), but is still way easier to deal with than the
Esc key.
Ddbd8bc32e3a87163b4658b2785d2082?d=identicon&s=25 Mark Somerville (Guest)
on 2006-04-26 18:10
(Received via mailing list)
I found that I never use the caps lock key, so I remapped it to be
another
Esc. Works great for vim. Until you use another computer...

Mark
210fcb95be358257a594bd20e2c65f13?d=identicon&s=25 Paul Legato (Guest)
on 2006-05-03 19:09
(Received via mailing list)
SleepJunk13 wrote:
> Is there a standard IDE out there that most people use? I'm looking at
> Mondrian and Arachno now, but I'm not sure which. I'm also looking at
> FreeRIDE as well, but I don't know.

Well, there's no right answer to this. Everyone has a different coding
style, workflow style, and personality, so everyone fits best with a
different editor.

The two standard editors amongst professional Unix programmers are Emacs
and vi. There has been something of an ongoing tongue in cheek holy war
between their adherents for twenty-some years now. (See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editor_war , which also lists some
advantages of each.) Both are open source, completely free (both libre
and gratis) and now also available as precompiled binaries for Windows,
Mac, and most other platforms.

I (and many other people) swear by Emacs. There are two main forks,
XEmacs (http://www.xemacs.org/) and GNU Emacs
(http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/). Emacs is _extremely_ powerful - it
is actually a LISP interpreter with a whole lot of predefined LISP code
to make it work as a text editor. There are file browsers, editing modes
with syntax highlighting, autoindent, autocomplete, etc. for most
programming languages, including Ruby, and there are optional Emacs LISP
addons available for just about anything a computer can do. (Really.
Almost everything. Web browsers, mail readers, http servers, Tetris, AI
chat programs....) The flipside is that the learning curve is not
particularly shallow, but there are good tutorials and lots and lots of
documentation available. I do have friends who are just as passionate
and productive with vi, though (and they love to point out that vi
doesn't immediately take up 35 megs of memory when you start it.)

I have tried various other commercial, shareware, and free IDEs and
editors over the years, and I have never found any feature that they
have that Emacs doesn't do. On the other hand, I always find lots of
things that Emacs can do that they don't do. I always keep coming back
to Emacs :)

If you're serious about programming, I recommend you take some time to
try them all. Try Emacs for a few days, try vi or vim for a few days,
try the demos of the commercial editors, try Eclipse FreeRIDE and the
other free IDEs... It's really a matter of personal choice and taste
more than anything else, and trying a bunch of editors yourself is the
only way to figure out which one suits you best.

Best,
Paul

--

--------------------------------------------------
--    Paul Legato, Senior Software Engineer     --
---       Networked Knowledge Systems          ---
----   P.O. Box 20772 Tampa, FL. 33622-0772   ----
----- (813)594-0064 Voice  (813)594-0045 FAX -----
------           plegato@nks.net            ------
--------------------------------------------------
36194a022cb2afb981bfdf720fc67d82?d=identicon&s=25 Eric Armstrong (Guest)
on 2006-05-03 19:10
(Received via mailing list)
Hmm. The only thing that turned me off to Emacs was the
weird command names--and probably the lisp-ness, had I
gotten close enough to it to get into that.

Which gets me thinking...

Ruby is Lisp-like...Emacs is based on Lisp...
There really ought to be an editor based on Ruby...

...it could start with new user interface semantics
    that adhere to the standards that have evolved
    over the last 35 years

...that would make it easy to use right from the start

...it could use Ruby, and be extended with Ruby, so
    it could be customized and evolved using the
    rather terrific language that Ruby is

So much to code, so little time...
:_)
34f159f89cbd1d9beac0276f5a7af552?d=identicon&s=25 John Gabriele (Guest)
on 2006-05-03 19:10
(Received via mailing list)
[fixed top-posting]

On 4/29/06, Eric Armstrong <Eric.Armstrong@sun.com> wrote:

> > try the demos of the commercial editors, try Eclipse FreeRIDE and the
>
> Which gets me thinking...
>
> Ruby is Lisp-like...Emacs is based on Lisp...
> There really ought to be an editor based on Ruby...

I believe FreeRIDE is written in Ruby, as are the plug-ins you might
write for it.

> So much to code, so little time...
> :_)

Again -- I think more good things should be happening with FreeRIDE in
the near future, especially after the wxRuby rewrite is done (and
there's been good progress on that front lately).
A402df36168b81b31c17adcbb5ae8cf4?d=identicon&s=25 Pistos Christou (pistos)
on 2006-05-04 05:26
Eric Armstrong wrote:
> Ruby is Lisp-like...Emacs is based on Lisp...
> There really ought to be an editor based on Ruby...
>
> ...it could start with new user interface semantics
>     that adhere to the standards that have evolved
>     over the last 35 years
>
> ...that would make it easy to use right from the start
>
> ...it could use Ruby, and be extended with Ruby, so
>     it could be customized and evolved using the
>     rather terrific language that Ruby is

Hm.  There _are_ editors that can be scripted and extended in Ruby.  As
someone else mentioned, FreeRIDE.  But I hear/see that vi(m) can also be
driven by Ruby.  Diakonos is still young and fledgling, but it is almost
fully scriptable in Ruby; that is, if you can press a key to do a
certain function, then you can also call that function in a Ruby script.

Pistos
34f159f89cbd1d9beac0276f5a7af552?d=identicon&s=25 John Gabriele (Guest)
on 2006-05-04 07:23
(Received via mailing list)
On 5/3/06, Pistos Christou <jesusrubsyou.5.pistos@geoshell.com> wrote:
>
> [snip] Diakonos is still young and fledgling, but it is almost
> fully scriptable in Ruby; that is, if you can press a key to do a
> certain function, then you can also call that function in a Ruby script.
>
> Pistos

I just had a brief look at Diakonos. Seems nice and clean: just one
main .rb file for the editor, and one conf file. Sadly, aside from a
few comments here and there in the code and in the conf file, Diakonos
looks to be entirely undocumented.

There *is* a readme describing how to install (which is (happily)
trivial), but no mention anywhere how to use the editor (though,
passing "--help" (I guessed that one) gives 4 lines of info). I also
guessed that Ctrl-q exits the editor, but that's it.

The site implies that its first release was in June, 2004.
E34b5cae57e0dd170114dba444e37852?d=identicon&s=25 Logan Capaldo (Guest)
on 2006-05-04 07:41
(Received via mailing list)
On May 4, 2006, at 1:20 AM, John Gabriele wrote:

> main .rb file for the editor, and one conf file. Sadly, aside from a
> few comments here and there in the code and in the conf file, Diakonos
> looks to be entirely undocumented.
>
> There *is* a readme describing how to install (which is (happily)
> trivial), but no mention anywhere how to use the editor (though,
> passing "--help" (I guessed that one) gives 4 lines of info). I also
> guessed that Ctrl-q exits the editor, but that's it.
>
> The site implies that its first release was in June, 2004.
>

The config file is pretty easy on the eyes, you can pick up the
keybindings from that.
A402df36168b81b31c17adcbb5ae8cf4?d=identicon&s=25 Pistos Christou (pistos)
on 2006-05-04 15:37
John Gabriele wrote:
> I just had a brief look at Diakonos. Seems nice and clean: just one
> main .rb file for the editor, and one conf file. Sadly, aside from a
> few comments here and there in the code and in the conf file, Diakonos
> looks to be entirely undocumented.
>
> There *is* a readme describing how to install (which is (happily)
> trivial), but no mention anywhere how to use the editor (though,
> passing "--help" (I guessed that one) gives 4 lines of info). I also
> guessed that Ctrl-q exits the editor, but that's it.

You are absolutely correct: There is very little user documentation.  I
actually have more solid plans to come up with more material (online
documentation, in-application help) to give a better out-of-box
experience within the next two releases.  I've walked a few people
through getting started, but I completely agree that a quick start
walkthrough of some kind is definitely in order.  That and sprucing up
the F1 page by, perhaps, organizing into groups and showing the most
commonly used keybindings higher up.

I've also entertained notions of making a "for people coming from emacs"
conf file which would override most keystrokes to match emacs.

Thanks for trying Diakonos.

Pistos
36194a022cb2afb981bfdf720fc67d82?d=identicon&s=25 Eric Armstrong (Guest)
on 2006-05-16 00:57
(Received via mailing list)
First, thanks to John for pointing out that FreeRide
is most likely exactly the thing I'm using for.

Next, Pistos:

After many years coding, I became a writer. But I
still code whenever I can. But the result of the
writing experience led me to start writing the user
guide as part of the design process.

    Note for aqile developers:
    The user guide is one of process artifacts at
    every stage. You modify it at the start of each
    cycle to explain what you plan to have accomplished
    at the end of the cycle. If the plan changes, you
    modify the document accordingly.

That experience had several tremendous benefits:

   * When I finally finished coding a project, I was
     generally too burned out to write a user guide.

   * Since a project was never really "finished", it
     was hard to define that point at which I really
     /should/ write the guide.

   * When I was coding, a myriad of ideas would occur
     to me about things the users ought to know. When
     I wrote at the end of a project, I always had the
     nagging feeling that I was only recalling a fraction
     of the things I wanted to say.

   * But with the user guide already written, it's an
     easy matter to add such things as they come in
     note format to be fleshed out later, if in no other
     form.

I've used that strategy successfully on several projects.
The user guide lets people give me feedback on how they
want to work even before it's written. And you never
find yourself in that awful position where you've created
something great, but no one uses it because they can't
find out how.

I'll do a design document as well, to keep track of
implementation ideas. Between the two of them, I've
never needed a "specification".
36194a022cb2afb981bfdf720fc67d82?d=identicon&s=25 Eric Armstrong (Guest)
on 2006-05-16 01:07
(Received via mailing list)
Fascinating. I'm familiar with plugins for writing
major extensions. But what about writing small macros?

Is there a "macro" capability in FreeRide, or are
plugins the new-world way of customizing behaviors?

-------- Original Message --------
From: John Gabriele <jmg3000@gmail.com>
Reply-To: ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org

On 4/29/06, Eric Armstrong <Eric.Armstrong@sun.com> wrote:
 >
 > Hmm. The only thing that turned me off to Emacs was the
 > weird command names--and probably the lisp-ness, had I
 > gotten close enough to it to get into that.
 >
 > Which gets me thinking...
 >
 > Ruby is Lisp-like...Emacs is based on Lisp...
 > There really ought to be an editor based on Ruby...
 >
I believe FreeRIDE is written in Ruby, as are the plug-ins
you might write for it.

 > ...it could start with new user interface semantics
 >     that adhere to the standards that have evolved
 >     over the last 35 years
 >
 > ...that would make it easy to use right from the start
 >
 > ...it could use Ruby, and be extended with Ruby, so
 >     it could be customized and evolved using the
 >     rather terrific language that Ruby is
 >
Again -- I think more good things should be happening with
FreeRIDE in the near future, especially after the wxRuby
rewrite is done (and there's been good progress on that
front lately).
Bc6d88907ce09158581fbb9b469a35a3?d=identicon&s=25 James Britt (Guest)
on 2006-05-16 01:31
(Received via mailing list)
Eric Armstrong wrote:
>    Note for aqile developers:
>    The user guide is one of process artifacts at
>    every stage. You modify it at the start of each
>    cycle to explain what you plan to have accomplished
>    at the end of the cycle. If the plan changes, you
>    modify the document accordingly.

Similar to what I call "comment-driven development"



--
James Britt

?Design depends largely on constraints.?
  ? Charles Eames
36194a022cb2afb981bfdf720fc67d82?d=identicon&s=25 Eric Armstrong (Guest)
on 2006-05-16 04:09
(Received via mailing list)
Similar, but with an important difference. The user
guide tells someone how to use the program to do what
they need to do. It's necessarily use-case oriented.

Comments tend to be implementation-oriented. They
tell how the /program/ does what it does. The user
guide tells the /user/ how to do what they need to do.
Bc6d88907ce09158581fbb9b469a35a3?d=identicon&s=25 James Britt (Guest)
on 2006-05-16 06:23
(Received via mailing list)
Eric Armstrong wrote:
> Similar, but with an important difference. The user
> guide tells someone how to use the program to do what
> they need to do. It's necessarily use-case oriented.
>
> Comments tend to be implementation-oriented. They
> tell how the /program/ does what it does.

Well, comments that just describe what the code is doing aren't always
helpful. I tend toward comments that explain the purpose and rationale
for the code.  The code itself should be clear enough to describe what
it is doing.

Yes, they are always user-centric.  But they do often have a "thinking
out loud" quality which is handy when writing up user docs.

The comments are often user stories that are then transmogrified into
tests and code to make the stories live.


--
James Britt

"In Ruby, no one cares who your parents were, all they care
  about is if you know  what you are talking about."
   - Logan Capaldo
A402df36168b81b31c17adcbb5ae8cf4?d=identicon&s=25 Pistos Christou (pistos)
on 2006-05-16 18:21
Eric Armstrong wrote:
> Next, Pistos:
> After many years coding, I became a writer. But I
> still code whenever I can. But the result of the
> writing experience led me to start writing the user
> guide as part of the design process.
>    * Since a project was never really "finished", it
>      was hard to define that point at which I really
>      /should/ write the guide.
>    * When I was coding, a myriad of ideas would occur
>      to me about things the users ought to know. When
>      I wrote at the end of a project, I always had the
>      nagging feeling that I was only recalling a fraction
>      of the things I wanted to say.
> I've used that strategy successfully on several projects.
> The user guide lets people give me feedback on how they
> want to work even before it's written. And you never
> find yourself in that awful position where you've created
> something great, but no one uses it because they can't
> find out how.

Interesting points; thanks for sharing.  I've absorbed them, and will
change the development process of Diakonos a bit.

I've recently released 0.8.1, and with it, I've begun growing a Diakonos
wiki: http://wiki.purepistos.net/doku.php?id=Diakonos  At the moment,
there is a Getting Started page, as well as a larval "Tips and Tricks"
section which describes some perhaps unobvious features of Diakonos.

I still would like to follow through on the claim/goal that Diakonos is
(will be) a "usable" editor.  Part of that is making the learning curve
shallow and the first-impression Ruby-like.

Pistos
36194a022cb2afb981bfdf720fc67d82?d=identicon&s=25 Eric Armstrong (Guest)
on 2006-05-18 01:38
(Received via mailing list)
Ah ha. VERY nice. I see the integration now.
36194a022cb2afb981bfdf720fc67d82?d=identicon&s=25 Eric Armstrong (Guest)
on 2006-05-18 01:41
(Received via mailing list)
Cool! I look forward to finding out more.
7956c3c7d7ef344265029e6b4b569b91?d=identicon&s=25 Huw Collingbourne (huw)
on 2006-05-20 18:18
We are currently developing an IDE ("Ruby In Steel") for Visual Studio
2005.

The current release (0.5) has
  Code colouring
  Code collapsing
  Integrated interactive console
  Commenting/uncommenting
  Bracket matching/location
  Project Manager (tree view pane)
  Syntax errors - click to find

The next release (0.6) due out in about 2 weeks has:
  Debugging
  Breakpoints
  drag/drop watch variables
  step into/step over
  autos window
  locals window
  call stack
  interactive debug console

After that we are adding Rails support features, IntelliSense, snippets
etc.

You can keep up to date with developments at:
http://www.sapphiresteel.com/

best wishes
Huw
C6d58eec081d1bae68945e01342ed277?d=identicon&s=25 Rob . (Guest)
on 2006-06-01 11:14
(Received via mailing list)
On 5/20/06, Huw Collingbourne <huw@darkneon.com> wrote:
> We are currently developing an IDE ("Ruby In Steel")
> for Visual Studio
> ...
> You can keep up to date with developments at:
> http://www.sapphiresteel.com/

Huw, I'm curious, was your site name inspired by "Sapphire and Steel"
the British Sci-Fi series? It was quite a bizarre show I vaguely
recall from childhood:
http://www.litost.org/SapphireAndSteel/sns.htm

cheers,
Rob (author of http://rubyjedit.org/)
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