hi! with a 4GL background, wanting to learn RoR, what is the fastest learning path i should take? should i go grab a RoR tutorial, and learn Ruby along the way, or start with plain Ruby first? thanks for any inputs!
on 2006-04-06 11:44
on 2006-04-06 14:09
On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 05:49:40PM +0800, Joey S. Eisma wrote: } with a 4GL background, wanting to learn RoR, what is the fastest } learning path i should take? should i go grab a RoR tutorial, and learn } Ruby along the way, or start with plain Ruby first? In my experience, when someone claims a 4GL background it usually indicates a lack of programming background, and almost always indicates a lack of programming discipline. You may or may not fit with this experience. If you do, your first step should be to learn about programming in general before concerning yourself with a particular library or framework like Rails. I have heard good things about Chris Pine's book Learn to Program, which you can find here: http://pragmaticprogrammer.com/titles/fr_ltp/ If you do not (or once you've followed the first step above), you should start on the Ruby on Rails site <http://www.rubyonrails.org/>. Under "Get Better" there is a two-part tutorial at O'Reilly that I found very useful in getting started with Rails. (There's also a third part that someone named Amy has supplied.) Once you've gone through that, you'll have some idea of how to get started. If you decide to continue, you will want both the Pickaxe book <http://pragmaticprogrammer.com/titles/ruby/index.html> and the Agile book <http://pragmaticprogrammer.com/titles/rails/index.html> for further insight and reference. } thanks for any inputs! --Greg
on 2006-04-06 14:37
Hi Joey, Joey S. Eisma wrote: > > with a 4GL background, wanting to learn > RoR, what is the fastest learning path i should > take? should i go grab a RoR tutorial, and learn > Ruby along the way, or start with plain Ruby first? The path I took and will recommend is... 1) Work through Curt's "Rolling with Ruby on Rails" tutorial (http://instantrails.rubyforge.org/tutorial/index.html) 2) Buy the "Agile Web Development with Rails" book and work through the Depot application therein 3) Buy the "Programming Ruby" (aka Pickaxe) book I didn't start with a committment to learn Ruby. I started with a ? "Is this something worth investing my time in? Each step led me to the next quite naturally. Curt's Instant Rails package removed any barriers to entry, and his tutorial led me to the point of "Wow! I can do that? (after a 10 year hiatus in management)" AWDwR took me to the next level of capability and interest ('interest' is putting it mildly). Now that I've got the basics, I need Pickaxe to take it to the next level. One other thing that I couldn't have done without, at any stage, is this list. It's truly a community that's supportive and helpful. It makes me want to give back. hth, Bill
on 2006-04-06 15:30
Personally, I have noticed that people who learn Ruby first and read pickaxe before going into Rails tend to be much stronger programmers in the long run. That's no offence to people out there who still aren't comfortable with Ruby, but then again, you probably know why I'm saying this. Rails uses some really wonderful and awesome techniques which all centre around some of the metaphors built into Ruby itself. And, to really *get* what's going on when you code a Rails application, you have to have that Ruby skill there ready to read the Rails source code. I took about two weeks and read the pickaxe book and was enthralled just by the beauty of Ruby itself. Then, I moved on and read the Agile Rails book. I'm in the minority around here probably with these opinions, but read the books first! Tutorials will always be incredibly lacking in explanation. If you're not convinced that Rails is cool, then glance through a tutorial and say "wow". Then, go focus the discipline to actually read a book. I promise you, while this method is a little more heavy on the front end, you will be ready to write some really amazing Ruby code to drive your applications. -hampton catlin.
on 2006-04-06 15:40
I totally agree with Hampton at least concerning the need to learn basic ruby first. Beeing a real newbie with Rails I've lost (and still losing) many times on problems that would be trivials for a medium level Ruby programmer. So, learn basics about some Ruby specific aspects (yielding comes to mind) and you will avoid losing hours on your route.rb file ;-)
on 2006-04-06 16:16
Honestly, the straight dope is that it takes time, the most important thing is to view the process as a journey, everybody starts off in the same place - not knowing a thing about either Rails or about Ruby, and then goes from there to knowing a little bit more each day. My recommendation is to give yourself some time to learn, succeed, and totally $#!$ things up, Rails definitely makes big things happen dramatically but that's not to say that it's easy or doesn't take a lot of effort to learn. Rails is built on the idea of conventions and there is no way you are going to learn these conventions without spending time on them, additionally Ruby takes a long time to completely grok and if you are coming from a static language environment, it may confound you with it's mysteries that will seem as alien as the arches of Atlantis but slowly over time you'll be enchanted by it's magic. Once you get past the initial discomfort you'll find yourself at the entrance to a road with a thousand paths and each one of them offers something to learn about Rails, software development, and the practice of programming in general, and by this time you are well on your way down the road of Ruby riches only at this point you will not care where you end up, only that you can continue with no end, and if you should venture so far that you come to where the Ruby meets the sea... Why the poignant will post something on Redhanded.com<http://redhanded.com/>that will make you say WTF? And you'll start all over again... 1) Read AWDWROR 2) Get Pickaxe and learn Ruby independent of Rails 3) Do the tutorial in AWDWROR 4) Dream up an app 5) Start building it. 6) Get confused 7) Feel the urge to want to get help 8) Don't 9) Figure out the solution 10) Feel the urge again to want to get help on something else 11) Do 12) Make sure you are writing tests with your code, TDD(Test Driven Development) is crucial to writing Rails apps like a pro. 13) Get a cheap web host that supports rails and deploy the app to your webhost with Capistrano. 14) Get Chad Fowler's 'Ruby Recipes' 15) Get David Black's 'Ruby for Rails developers' 16) Subscribe to the Rails weblog, and search out other Blogs on rails. 17) Look at Typo to see examples of elegant code. 18) Look at the source to learn more about Rails and Ruby, 'gem unpack rails' to a handy directory so you can inspect the innards of Rails easily. 19) Ask yourself what you know about blocks and metaprogramming, understand what method_missing does for ActiveRecord. 20) Look around smell the roses and all of sudden realize that you are a much different developer than when you first started 21) Try and help a newb out with all of your new found wisdom. 22) Profit Takes about 3 - 12 months to get started... and goes on forever. Welcome to the show Tim Case firstname.lastname@example.org
on 2006-04-06 17:46
23) Try to make a real app. Only then you will learn the ropes. 24) HAVE FUN !!!!
on 2006-04-06 23:21
This is my philosophy also. It goes like this: 1. Write some cool stuff in Ruby. 2. Study Rails. 3. Build some cool Rails thing. You can get stuff up and running extremely quickly with Rails, and that's very cool, but I like to balance impatient work with patient study. Of course (from Wikipedia) it looks as if that flies in the face of the whole concept of 4GL, so you might just want to hop to step 3, but I wouldn't recommend it. On 4/6/06, Hampton <email@example.com> wrote: > I took about two weeks and read the pickaxe book and was enthralled just by > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails > > > -- Giles Bowkett www.gilesgoatboy.org
on 2006-04-06 23:34
joey se wrote: > hi! > > with a 4GL background, wanting to learn RoR, what is the fastest > learning path i should take? should i go grab a RoR tutorial, and learn > Ruby along the way, or start with plain Ruby first? > > > thanks for any inputs! I'd definitely recommend starting with learning Ruby, building a few small apps (and at least one non-trivial program) in Ruby first. I originally started with Curt Hibbs' Rails tutorial, but while I could follow the steps and do what the tutorial asked, I didn't feel like I was grasping it without knowing the specifics of Ruby. Its syntax is pretty straightforward but it has a few interesting concepts like symbols, blocks, and others that I needed to understand before being able to do anything interesting in Rails. Jeff