Forum: Ruby Seeking some of that old-time Smalltalk religion

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2c8df79b2a68a7532af01d8851f7fa2d?d=identicon&s=25 John Lam (Guest)
on 2006-03-22 16:59
(Received via mailing list)
I know there are some Smalltalk folks who hang out here, so I'd like to
pose
perhaps a fairly ignorant question:

How far away is irb from a Smalltalk development environment?

Put another way, what must need to be done to get to a Smalltalk
development
environment? Will being able to load / save image files get me closer
(have
folks done this by serializing the ObjectSpace tree to disk already)? Or
am
I just going to have to experience it for myself to get the gestalt of
Smalltalk IDEs?

Thanks for any & all insight ...
-John
http://www.iunknown.com
5befe95e6648daec3dd5728cd36602d0?d=identicon&s=25 Robert Klemme (Guest)
on 2006-03-22 17:09
(Received via mailing list)
John Lam wrote:
> I know there are some Smalltalk folks who hang out here, so I'd like to pose
> perhaps a fairly ignorant question:
>
> How far away is irb from a Smalltalk development environment?
>
> Put another way, what must need to be done to get to a Smalltalk development
> environment? Will being able to load / save image files get me closer (have
> folks done this by serializing the ObjectSpace tree to disk already)? Or am
> I just going to have to experience it for myself to get the gestalt of
> Smalltalk IDEs?

<disclaimer>Not being a Smalltalk guy myself...</disclaimer>

I'd guess that it's quite a long way from IRB to a modern Smalltalk IDE:
IRB doesn't have a graphical UI for example.  But I've heard there are
quite a number of decent Ruby IDE's out there.

Note also, that marshaling object graphs doesn't help here because that
doesn't capture methods.  So the tool would have to keep track of
defined variables and methods and store them somehow.

Kind regards

	robert
06db81f02537377c4bb207cdf8fd18ec?d=identicon&s=25 Mike Austin (Guest)
on 2006-03-23 01:59
(Received via mailing list)
John Lam wrote:
> I know there are some Smalltalk folks who hang out here, so I'd like to pose
> perhaps a fairly ignorant question:
>
> How far away is irb from a Smalltalk development environment?
>
> Put another way, what must need to be done to get to a Smalltalk development
> environment? Will being able to load / save image files get me closer (have
> folks done this by serializing the ObjectSpace tree to disk already)? Or am
> I just going to have to experience it for myself to get the gestalt of
> Smalltalk IDEs?

I've been working on a Self/Squeak type interface environment for Ruby:
http://www.mike-austin.com/interface-design/Ruby-Inertia.jpg

I think Self and Squeak are pioneers in live design, but I find them a
little
over-complex.  Ruby-Inertia is being designed from scratch using SDL,
OpenGL
and FreeType.  I've written prototypes of it in C++, Io and Dylan also.
So
far, Ruby seems to be the easiest (I wonder why? :)  Nothing to release
yet, it
needs a little more work.

http://research.sun.com/self/
http://www.squeak.org/


Mike
Ecba29751333cb64231eb2a109721323?d=identicon&s=25 Guest (Guest)
on 2006-03-23 02:24
The short answer is light years away. Go over to
http://www.object-arts.com and download the free Community Edition of
Dolphin and see for yourself. It makes all other IDE's look antiquated.
2c8df79b2a68a7532af01d8851f7fa2d?d=identicon&s=25 John Lam (Guest)
on 2006-03-23 02:52
(Received via mailing list)
On 3/22/06, Robert Klemme <bob.news@gmx.net> wrote:
>
> Note also, that marshaling object graphs doesn't help here because that
> doesn't capture methods.  So the tool would have to keep track of
> defined variables and methods and store them somehow.
>

Whoops - that's right. Is it possible to persist Ruby's AST as well as
the
live object graph? I guess I'm going to have to spend some time digging
into
the sources to see how the AST hangs together and whether that would
even
make any sense.

Thanks
-John
http://www.iunknown.com
58479f76374a3ba3c69b9804163f39f4?d=identicon&s=25 Eric Hodel (Guest)
on 2006-03-23 03:06
(Received via mailing list)
On Mar 22, 2006, at 5:52 PM, John Lam wrote:

> live object graph? I guess I'm going to have to spend some time
> digging into
> the sources to see how the AST hangs together and whether that
> would even
> make any sense.

ParseTree can be used with Ruby2Ruby to persist some of the AST.
There are limitations though.

http://rubyforge.org/projects/parsetree/

--
Eric Hodel - drbrain@segment7.net - http://blog.segment7.net
This implementation is HODEL-HASH-9600 compliant

http://trackmap.robotcoop.com
2c8df79b2a68a7532af01d8851f7fa2d?d=identicon&s=25 John Lam (Guest)
on 2006-03-23 06:32
(Received via mailing list)
I forgot about ParseTree - thanks for making it!

-John
http://www.iunknown.com
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