Forum: Ruby Python looking better ...

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Bc6d88907ce09158581fbb9b469a35a3?d=identicon&s=25 James Britt (Guest)
on 2006-03-07 00:55
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... though they need someone to improve the grammar:

http://www.python.org/


They got rid of that fugly "ping-pong ball" text logo, too.

--
James Britt

http://www.ruby-doc.org       - Ruby Help & Documentation
http://www.artima.com/rubycs/ - The Journal By & For Rubyists
http://www.rubystuff.com      - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
http://refreshingcities.org   - Design, technology, usability
B97225f66bb5caac601b12735d430a0d?d=identicon&s=25 Marcin MielżyÅ?ski (Guest)
on 2006-03-07 01:04
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James Britt wrote:
> .. though they need someone to improve the grammar:
>
> http://www.python.org/
>
>
> They got rid of that fugly "ping-pong ball" text logo, too.
>

I've seen a new Ruby homepage proposal somewhere.... iirc

lopex
Eb9493c94d8db9887e5f15284d2c767f?d=identicon&s=25 unknown (Guest)
on 2006-03-07 01:35
(Received via mailing list)
In article <440CCBD8.7060006@neurogami.com>,
James Britt  <james_b@neurogami.com> wrote:
>.. though they need someone to improve the grammar:
>
>http://www.python.org/
>

Speaking of improved language websites... wasn't there an effort afoot
(more
than a year ago I think) to improve Ruby's website?  Some nice looking
protoype
sites were produced, but nothing ever came of it... what gives?

BTW: we can also put "NASA uses Ruby" on our website too ;-)

Phil
A87f7a014c624587fab0d3d78c5b9c18?d=identicon&s=25 Bil Kleb (Guest)
on 2006-03-07 15:40
(Received via mailing list)
James Britt wrote:
> .. though they need someone to improve the grammar:
>
> http://www.python.org/

I feel left out.  Where's our "NASA uses Ruby" ad?

:)
A87f7a014c624587fab0d3d78c5b9c18?d=identicon&s=25 Bil Kleb (Guest)
on 2006-03-07 15:43
(Received via mailing list)
Phil Tomson wrote:
> James Britt  <james_b@neurogami.com> wrote:
>>http://www.python.org/
>
> BTW: we can also put "NASA uses Ruby" on our website too ;-)

The curious thing is that when I went to the success stories
page, and did text-search for "NASA", it came up empty?
9377764fa3b08a1c7bf702d373ee653a?d=identicon&s=25 Karl von Laudermann (Guest)
on 2006-03-07 16:05
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Bil Kleb wrote:
> Phil Tomson wrote:
> > James Britt  <james_b@neurogami.com> wrote:
> >>http://www.python.org/
> >
> > BTW: we can also put "NASA uses Ruby" on our website too ;-)
>
> The curious thing is that when I went to the success stories
> page, and did text-search for "NASA", it came up empty?

Search for "shuttle". Or just click on the photo on the front page.
A87f7a014c624587fab0d3d78c5b9c18?d=identicon&s=25 Bil Kleb (Guest)
on 2006-03-07 16:36
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Karl von Laudermann wrote:
>
> Search for "shuttle". Or just click on the photo on the front page.

Ah, so it's not NASA, but a NASA contractor...
Df5e7adb20adae6c120b04e7cafb15a0?d=identicon&s=25 Rob Sanheim (Guest)
on 2006-03-07 17:06
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On 3/6/06, Marcin Miel¿yñski <lopexx@autograf.pl> wrote:
>
> lopex
>
>

Its still going on as far as I know, just progressing slowly.  The blog
is here:

http://redhanded.hobix.com/redesign2005/

- Rob
Bc6d88907ce09158581fbb9b469a35a3?d=identicon&s=25 James Britt (Guest)
on 2006-03-07 23:44
(Received via mailing list)
Rob Sanheim wrote:
...>
>
> Its still going on as far as I know, just progressing slowly.  The blog is here:
>
> http://redhanded.hobix.com/redesign2005/
>


Some interesting comments on Reddit about the new Python look:

http://reddit.com/info?id=2t2w



--
James Britt

http://www.ruby-doc.org       - Ruby Help & Documentation
http://www.artima.com/rubycs/ - The Journal By & For Rubyists
http://www.rubystuff.com      - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
http://refreshingcities.org   - Design, technology, usability
Bf1e672f5e54581db4e6d45b7030d286?d=identicon&s=25 Steven Lumos (Guest)
on 2006-03-09 21:33
(Received via mailing list)
> ... though they need someone to improve the grammar:
>
> http://www.python.org/
>
>
> They got rid of that fugly "ping-pong ball" text logo, too.

IMO, the Ruby site redesign guys are on a much better track.  Who
really cares whether NASA uses Python? One thing I learned from having
to sit through too many software marketing presentations is that
organizations like NASA are to software what the Library of Congress
is to books.  I finally started interrupting presenters to ask
something like "Do you realize that *all* of your competitors have
LANL on their peer-pressure slide too?"  Most actually didn't!

Steve
Bc6d88907ce09158581fbb9b469a35a3?d=identicon&s=25 James Britt (Guest)
on 2006-03-09 23:11
(Received via mailing list)
Steven Lumos wrote:
> to sit through too many software marketing presentations is that
> organizations like NASA are to software what the Library of Congress
> is to books.  I finally started interrupting presenters to ask
> something like "Do you realize that *all* of your competitors have
> LANL on their peer-pressure slide too?"  Most actually didn't!

There's an argument to be made that language advocacy, and "selling"
Ruby (or Python or Lisp or whatever), is distasteful.

There's also a counterargument suggesting that the language and its
community will be better off for the greater exposure and mainstream
use.

I believe that language marketing itself is fine, though it can be
poorly or distastefully done.  People looking to code Ruby for a living
are helped if HR people or recruiters or whomever have heard of Ruby;
people currently trying to persuade their coworkers or boss to adopt
Ruby are helped if Ruby is better known and people are assured that more
Ruby hackers can be found if a bus takes out the one or two Rubyists
they know.

But there is the counter-counterargument that it is more important to
attract the right kind of people, not simply large crowds of
indiscriminate coders.  And that poor marketing (e.g., My language is
cool, your language is a mouse poop sandwich) will turn people off.

I'd like to think that if you make the intrinsic strengths of Ruby
obvious then it will (continue to) attract the people who will help make
it better (by keen observations, code submission, library creation),
which in turn will draw the attention of the more practical-minded.

But it may be that "success story" blurbs are still needed to win over
project managers and such.


--
James Britt

"In physics the truth is rarely perfectly clear, and that is certainly
  universally the case in human affairs. Hence, what is not surrounded
by
  uncertainty cannot be the truth."
  - R. Feynman
A4a4095ff08bd0fced3c3fddbeac743a?d=identicon&s=25 Cameron McBride (Guest)
on 2006-03-09 23:29
(Received via mailing list)
James,

> But there is the counter-counterargument that it is more important to
> attract the right kind of people, not simply large crowds of
> indiscriminate coders.  And that poor marketing (e.g., My language is
> cool, your language is a mouse poop sandwich) will turn people off.

Nice.

I just wanted to take a moment and applaud you for your valid
contributions in amusing packages.  It really does keep a lot of the
conversations fresh and educational even after years of lurking...

Thanks.

Cameron
A4a4095ff08bd0fced3c3fddbeac743a?d=identicon&s=25 Cameron McBride (Guest)
on 2006-03-09 23:29
(Received via mailing list)
Which was supposed to be off-list.  My apologies for my blunding
fingers.
A402df36168b81b31c17adcbb5ae8cf4?d=identicon&s=25 Pistos Christou (pistos)
on 2006-03-10 15:58
James Britt wrote:
> Ruby are helped if Ruby is better known and people are assured that more
> Ruby hackers can be found if a bus takes out the one or two Rubyists
> they know.

I just have one question.

Why is at always a BUS that would hit Ruby programmers?  This is EXACTLY
the vehicle a former boss used in the hypothetical story he used to
justify why I shouldn't use Ruby [anymore (heh)].  Are high-capacity
passenger transport vehicles just naturally attracted to Rubyists?
Angered by them?  Or maybe the Amalgamated Transit Union has a secret
vendetta against us?

Are we not worth of being hit by cars?  vans?  trains?  hovercraft?
*momentarily tries to envision being "run over" ("blown over?") by a
hovercraft*  tricycles?

Pistos
E34b5cae57e0dd170114dba444e37852?d=identicon&s=25 Logan Capaldo (Guest)
on 2006-03-10 18:40
(Received via mailing list)
On Mar 10, 2006, at 9:58 AM, Pistos Christou wrote:

> the vehicle a former boss used in the hypothetical story he used to
>
> --
> Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
>

It's always a bus because the bus has a long and venerable tradition
in taking out programmers.
See: http://web.archive.org/web/20000422005356/http://s...
story.phtml?mode=2&id=38b40d78-087dd360
6be992188e189c594b84e6270f1d0b22?d=identicon&s=25 void * clvrmnky() (Guest)
on 2006-03-10 19:26
(Received via mailing list)
Pistos Christou wrote:
> passenger transport vehicles just naturally attracted to Rubyists?
> Angered by them?  Or maybe the Amalgamated Transit Union has a secret
> vendetta against us?
>
> Are we not worth of being hit by cars?  vans?  trains?  hovercraft?
> *momentarily tries to envision being "run over" ("blown over?") by a
> hovercraft*  tricycles?
>
Because there is no such thing (yet) as hovercraft tricycle errors, but
there are (still) bus errors.
25e11a00a89683f7e01e425a1a6e305c?d=identicon&s=25 Wilson Bilkovich (Guest)
on 2006-03-11 04:32
(Received via mailing list)
On 3/10/06, Pistos Christou <jesusrubsyou.5.pistos@geoshell.com> wrote:
> passenger transport vehicles just naturally attracted to Rubyists?
> Angered by them?  Or maybe the Amalgamated Transit Union has a secret
> vendetta against us?
>
> Are we not worth of being hit by cars?  vans?  trains?  hovercraft?
> *momentarily tries to envision being "run over" ("blown over?") by a
> hovercraft*  tricycles?
>

I can't tell you how many projects I've seen fail due to
hovercraft-related issues.
C475cffda1800fbc3f3af17bc10c220f?d=identicon&s=25 Curt Hibbs (Guest)
on 2006-03-11 08:10
(Received via mailing list)
On 3/7/06, Rob Sanheim <rsanheim@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I've seen a new Ruby homepage proposal somewhere.... iirc
> >
> > lopex
> >
> >
>
> Its still going on as far as I know, just progressing slowly.  The blog is here:
>
> http://redhanded.hobix.com/redesign2005/

I can assure you that it is still progressing. It has been slow
progress, but much faster in recent months (thanks to John Long).
Hopefully a few more months and it'll be all finished.

Curt
Ffcb418e17cac2873d611c2b8d8d891c?d=identicon&s=25 Benjohn Barnes (Guest)
on 2006-03-11 12:18
(Received via mailing list)
On 11 Mar 2006, at 03:30, Wilson Bilkovich wrote:

>> Why is at always a BUS that would hit Ruby programmers?  This is
>>
>
> I can't tell you how many projects I've seen fail due to
> hovercraft-related issues.

*nods*

On a happier note, last week the team I work in took a vote on using
Ruby for development. They're a 15 strong group. A mix of developers
and QC people, about a 50-50 split, and a few managers. Their
criteria for choosing was simply "Will you be happy to maintain code
that is written in Ruby?" The majority were, so now I can happily
develop with Ruby, rather than keeping the pickaxe hidden on my knees
under my desk :)

In trying to convince them, my major selling points were that:

* Ruby is being used by other people - it's a mature language.

* Ruby has some significant advantages as a language; comes with
superb tools and modules, making it highly productive and enjoyable;
and has a vibrant and active community.

* Ruby code should be more maintainable than (in this case) Perl,
because it encourages modular, well structured design. This is far
more important to rapid understanding, than a maintainer's
familiarity with the language.

But I think I can hear the distant drone of an encroaching
hovercraft, so I will leave you, and try to finish what I can before
my appointment with destiny.

Cheers,
	Benjohn
Bd0203dc8478deb969d72f52e741bd4f?d=identicon&s=25 Daniel Baird (Guest)
on 2006-03-12 13:16
(Received via mailing list)
On 11/03/06, Pistos Christou <jesusrubsyou.5.pistos@geoshell.com> wrote:
>
> >> Why is at always a BUS that would hit Ruby programmers?
>

It's so you can use the phrase "bus error", which has an air of humerous
ambiguity to it.  Like "carbon-based error".

;Daniel




--
Daniel Baird
http://danielbaird.com (TiddlyW;nks! :: Whiteboard Koala :: Blog ::
Things
That Suck)
[[My webhost uptime is ~ 92%.. if no answer pls call again later!]]
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