Forum: Ruby English Ruby Home as a second class citizen

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2f50086fbb09894a6f94207731130d6c?d=identicon&s=25 unknown (Guest)
on 2005-12-14 13:50
(Received via mailing list)
Hi Everyone,
I just noticed that Japanese Ruby Home http://www.ruby-lang.org/ja/
announces availability of Ruby-1.8.4 preview 2 and in general contains
much more news and announcements that English Language Ruby Home
http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/ that has not been updated since early
October.

I hope it should be possible to keep both web sites in sync so that
those of us who do not speak Japanese can benefit from up-to-date
information regarding Ruby.

--Leo--
Bc6d88907ce09158581fbb9b469a35a3?d=identicon&s=25 James Britt (Guest)
on 2005-12-14 17:21
(Received via mailing list)
slonik.az@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> I just noticed that Japanese Ruby Home http://www.ruby-lang.org/ja/
> announces availability of Ruby-1.8.4 preview 2 and in general contains
> much more news and announcements that English Language Ruby Home
> http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/ that has not been updated since early October.
>
> I hope it should be possible to keep both web sites in sync so that
> those of us who do not speak Japanese can benefit from up-to-date
> information regarding Ruby.

Of course it is possible, but it currently depends on native
English-speaking site editors to a) know of the Japanese additions, and
b) have the time to go add the new item to the English version, assuming
c) the English-speaking editor can figure out the Japanese.

It's mainly a matter of time and energy, and yes, the announcement of
the 1.8.4 previews should have been put up on the English version site,
but sometimes thing slip by.  It's a volunteer world.

It's there now, though, thanks to David A. Black.

James
(Now subscribing to the RDF feed for the Japanese version of the Ruby
home page ...)

--

http://www.ruby-doc.org       - Ruby Help & Documentation
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94af373d42084bf8b07f461291a910a3?d=identicon&s=25 cap (Guest)
on 2005-12-14 17:30
(Received via mailing list)
I use

http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en

to guess what did they say
Bc6d88907ce09158581fbb9b469a35a3?d=identicon&s=25 James Britt (Guest)
on 2005-12-14 17:39
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cap wrote:
> I use
>
> http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en
>
> to guess what did they say

Thanks.  I can use that, or Alta Vista's Babel.

What I could use is a tool that takes the Japanese RDF feed, runs it
though a translator, and emits a new feed, to which I can subscribe.

Hmm ...

James


--

http://www.ruby-doc.org       - Ruby Help & Documentation
http://www.artima.com/rubycs/ - Ruby Code & Style: Writers wanted
http://www.rubystuff.com      - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
http://www.jamesbritt.com     - Playing with Better Toys
http://www.30secondrule.com   - Building Better Tools
69187caabdb3f1466bb4f09e698b3eb2?d=identicon&s=25 chan jellen (Guest)
on 2005-12-14 18:27
(Received via mailing list)
:(, I also noticed that. Anyone who is managing the English site?
Hope it will be updated more often.
It is unfair for our none-japan rubyists now.


>http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/ that has not been updated since early
October.
Cff9eed5d8099e4c2d34eae663aae87e?d=identicon&s=25 Jacob Fugal (Guest)
on 2005-12-14 18:58
(Received via mailing list)
On 12/14/05, James Britt <james_b@neurogami.com> wrote:
> though a translator, and emits a new feed, to which I can subscribe.
>
> Hmm ...

I've got a framework running at "http://jacob.fugal.net/era/" (ERA =
English Ruby Annoucements). The only portion lacking is the
translation. I couldn't find a web service that does japanese to
english and I didn't want to do screenscraping. If you can point me at
an appropriate webservice or write your own bit of screen scraping
code, I'll plug it in and you've got your feed! :)

Jacob Fugal
31ab75f7ddda241830659630746cdd3a?d=identicon&s=25 Austin Ziegler (Guest)
on 2005-12-14 19:31
(Received via mailing list)
On 14/12/05, James Britt <james_b@neurogami.com> wrote:
>
>
> James
> (Now subscribing to the RDF feed for the Japanese version of the Ruby
> home page ...)

Now, what I *really* want to know is what happened to the website
redesign effort.

-austin
25e11a00a89683f7e01e425a1a6e305c?d=identicon&s=25 Wilson Bilkovich (Guest)
on 2005-12-14 22:23
(Received via mailing list)
On 12/14/05, Jacob Fugal <lukfugl@gmail.com> wrote:
> > What I could use is a tool that takes the Japanese RDF feed, runs it
> > though a translator, and emits a new feed, to which I can subscribe.
> >
> > Hmm ...
>
> I've got a framework running at "http://jacob.fugal.net/era/" (ERA =
> English Ruby Annoucements). The only portion lacking is the
> translation. I couldn't find a web service that does japanese to
> english and I didn't want to do screenscraping. If you can point me at
> an appropriate webservice or write your own bit of screen scraping
> code, I'll plug it in and you've got your feed! :)

Does this lame little snippet help? Heh.  Unfortunately, babelfish is
limited to 150 words.
Also, ruby-lang.org/ja uses EUC encoding, so if you're grabbing it
directly, rather than in Unicode form, you'll want $KCODE="E"

#jp.rb
require 'open-uri'
require 'cgi'
$KCODE="u"
exit unless ARGV[0]
input = CGI.escape(ARGV[0])
trans =
URI("http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr?doit=done&intl=1...
output = trans[/<div style=padding:10px;>(.*)<\/div>/, 1]
puts output
Cff9eed5d8099e4c2d34eae663aae87e?d=identicon&s=25 Jacob Fugal (Guest)
on 2005-12-14 22:47
(Received via mailing list)
On 12/14/05, Wilson Bilkovich <wilsonb@gmail.com> wrote:
> input = CGI.escape(ARGV[0])
> trans = 
URI("http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr?doit=done&intl=1...
> output = trans[/<div style=padding:10px;>(.*)<\/div>/, 1]
> puts output

I tried integrating that, but the 150 char limit meant that most -- if
not all -- of the bodies couldn't be translated. Having translated
titles would be a slight improvement, but not enough. Thanks for the
direction though!

Jacob Fugal
Fee23d1fc58edee59e05d7a52dcf172e?d=identicon&s=25 Kevin Brown (Guest)
on 2005-12-14 22:53
(Received via mailing list)
On Wednesday 14 December 2005 15:21, Wilson Bilkovich wrote:
> > >
> > code, I'll plug it in and you've got your feed! :)
>
> Does this lame little snippet help? Heh.  Unfortunately, babelfish is
> limited to 150 words.

Babelfish will also let you plug in a site and just translate that.  So
why
not just plug in the site and then scrape the actual page with just
translated text?
Fe9b2d0628c0943af374b2fe5b320a82?d=identicon&s=25 Eero Saynatkari (rue)
on 2005-12-14 22:54
Jacob Fugal wrote:
> On 12/14/05, Wilson Bilkovich <wilsonb@gmail.com> wrote:
>> input = CGI.escape(ARGV[0])
>> trans = 
URI("http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr?doit=done&intl=1...
>> output = trans[/<div style=padding:10px;>(.*)<\/div>/, 1]
>> puts output
>
> I tried integrating that, but the 150 char limit meant that most -- if
> not all -- of the bodies couldn't be translated. Having translated
> titles would be a slight improvement, but not enough. Thanks for the
> direction though!

You could split the strings into 150-char sections and loop over
them sending a new request for each. A Google translation might
not have such limits (quality of translation notwithstanding).

> Jacob Fugal


E
2bbd790a07af3baf216495894208c1d0?d=identicon&s=25 Alan Garrison (Guest)
on 2005-12-14 23:26
(Received via mailing list)
Kevin Brown wrote:

>Babelfish will also let you plug in a site and just translate that.  So why
>not just plug in the site and then scrape the actual page with just
>translated text?
>
>
>

FWIW, it appears that Google also supports pulling a URL and doing
Japanese->English translation (marked as Beta):

http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en
Cff9eed5d8099e4c2d34eae663aae87e?d=identicon&s=25 Jacob Fugal (Guest)
on 2005-12-14 23:29
(Received via mailing list)
On 12/14/05, Eero Saynatkari <ruby-forum-reg@mailinator.com> wrote:
> Jacob Fugal wrote:
> > I tried integrating that, but the 150 char limit meant that most -- if
> > not all -- of the bodies couldn't be translated. Having translated
> > titles would be a slight improvement, but not enough. Thanks for the
> > direction though!
>
> You could split the strings into 150-char sections and loop over
> them sending a new request for each. A Google translation might
> not have such limits (quality of translation notwithstanding).

Well, truth be told, I couldn't even get the snippet working for me,
regardless of the 150ish-char limit[1]. The oddity is this: I can echo
out the URI I'm going to request, past that URI into my browser and
get a page with a decent translation. However, if I take that same URI
and run it through wget (or Ruby's open-uri) I get a different result.
And the difference isn't just in encoding, there are differences in
the returned HTML!

For instance, the URI
http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr?doit=done&intl=1...,
relating to the Japanese string: "Webrick DoSè??å¼±æ?§ã«ã¤ã?て". If I put 
that
URI in my browser, the resulting page says "About Webrick DoS
vulnerability". Perfect.

If I fetch that same URI via wget, the HTML returned has "Webrick DoS
^@ <86> ^@ �± ^@ SECT. ^@ ^@ ^@ ^@ ^@ <84> ^@ ^@" instead (looking at
it in a non-unicode vim over putty). Even stranger, the page in my
browser has a hidden input with name="q" and value="About Webrick DoS
vulnerability". The HTML returned by wget has a hidden input in the
same position (surrounding HTML identical) but with name="kls" and
value="0".

Any one have any ideas what's going on?

Jacob Fugal

[1] The limit imposed by bablefish is actually 150 *words*. However,
as a GET request, URI raises an exception about the URL being too long
far before 150 words are actually reached.
Bc6d88907ce09158581fbb9b469a35a3?d=identicon&s=25 James Britt (Guest)
on 2005-12-15 00:51
(Received via mailing list)
Kevin Brown wrote:
>
> Babelfish will also let you plug in a site and just translate that.  So why
> not just plug in the site and then scrape the actual page with just
> translated text?

Ah.  Turns out this this is indeed fairly trivial with WWW::Mechanize.

Quite straightforward to pull the translation and generate a feed.

Thanks.


James


--

http://www.ruby-doc.org       - Ruby Help & Documentation
http://www.artima.com/rubycs/ - Ruby Code & Style: Writers wanted
http://www.rubystuff.com      - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
http://www.jamesbritt.com     - Playing with Better Toys
http://www.30secondrule.com   - Building Better Tools
2abf5beb51d5d66211d525a72c5cb39d?d=identicon&s=25 Paul Battley (Guest)
on 2005-12-15 01:30
(Received via mailing list)
> Of course it is possible, but it currently depends on native
> English-speaking site editors to a) know of the Japanese additions, and
> b) have the time to go add the new item to the English version, assuming
> c) the English-speaking editor can figure out the Japanese.

How about creating a pool of people who can translate new items as
they pop up on the Japanese site?  I'm willing to volunteer; there
just needs some kind of system to notify the translators that there's
something to be dealt with (which could be as simple as a mailing list
to which each new item on the Japanese site is posted).

Paul.
Ff260830c27224f0e15f37362a6256d0?d=identicon&s=25 Paul Duncan (Guest)
on 2005-12-15 02:42
(Received via mailing list)
* Austin Ziegler (halostatue@gmail.com) wrote:
> On 14/12/05, James Britt <james_b@neurogami.com> wrote:
[snipped]
> Now, what I *really* want to know is what happened to the website
> redesign effort.

Seconded.  I really liked the second one on the redesign page.

For those of you in the dark, here's what Austin and I are referring to:

  http://redhanded.hobix.com/redesign2005/

I think having a snazzy-looking page is important for drawing people in.

Which, of course, is why most of my sites are in various forms of
disarray ;D.
2f50086fbb09894a6f94207731130d6c?d=identicon&s=25 unknown (Guest)
on 2005-12-18 18:43
(Received via mailing list)
Wow, my innocent post generated 17 responses:-) It seems that the
issue of human language interoperability is quite important for Ruby
users. Unfortunately, most of discussion was along the lines of most
efficient English to Japanese translation.
I would rather touch a slightly different topic.

Ruby is already a truly international phenomenon with tens of thousand
users and scores of developers in all countries and continents
speaking dozens of various languages.  English is the language that
majority of Ruby users and developers can understand even though
English might not be their mother tongue (like in may case). It is a
matter of fact that English (whether we like it or not) is a defacto
standard in _ALL_ software projects with diverse user base.

On this basis I would suggest to make  Ruby English home the _MAIN_
Ruby portal with Japanese and other languages translating from it. As
of now it is otherwise around -- International (aka English) web site
is clearly a second class citizen. I have nothing against Japanese
language or Japanese culture. My rational for such suggestion is
strictly pragmatic.

--Leo--

P.S. It is not my intention to generate any flame wars. I apologize if
I inadvertently hurt somebody's feelings.
Aa1f23332dbb5408a55ed190648ba172?d=identicon&s=25 Mark Ericson (Guest)
on 2005-12-18 21:23
(Received via mailing list)
Here is the link to the Japanese Ruby Home live translated by Google
language tools

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F...
Cfdeff3ac35010e4de8f85d954f24f4a?d=identicon&s=25 Damphyr (Guest)
on 2005-12-19 02:26
(Received via mailing list)
Mark Ericson wrote:
>>
>> http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en
>>
>> to guess what did they say
Ouch, painfull reading makes it. We ask may somebody does it properly
that.
;)
V.-


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