Forum: Ruby Ruby will be die :(

1f1d393403ea997213960ee852d8f897?d=identicon&s=25 Jason Long (Guest)
on 2013-11-09 16:34
(Received via mailing list)
Hello Rubyist.
Will ruby die in the future? We have some new technologieslike Node.js
and angular but how ruby can challenge them?

Cheers.
Bee69cfed999cd13e3bff73d472a39ee?d=identicon&s=25 Hassan Schroeder (Guest)
on 2013-11-09 16:48
(Received via mailing list)
On Sat, Nov 9, 2013 at 7:33 AM, Jason Long <hack3rcon@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Will ruby die in the future?

The wheel turns -- everything dies eventually.

But I'll bet your 'yahoo.com' email address will go before Ruby  :-)
64a808c19ac542b14c4021dcb9484a37?d=identicon&s=25 Ruby Student (rubystudent66)
on 2013-11-09 17:34
(Received via mailing list)
LOL


On Sat, Nov 9, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Hassan Schroeder <
18d7d783361bee7cb2f7d877fe8fd9c1?d=identicon&s=25 chris williams (Guest)
on 2013-11-09 18:36
(Received via mailing list)
I agree, even when using other technologies to develop, I still rely on
ruby to do screen scrape to build quick unit tests and verify
results.Ruby is quick and light weight and a natural at this :)
From being in technology for a long time I have realized technologies
never really die they just transform.Remember cobol and fortran are
still in use and maintained in a lot of large corporations but to a lot
of people assumed long dead until Y2K whenanyone who know it quickly
became valuable.
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2013 11:33:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Ruby will be die :(
From: ruby.student@gmail.com
To: ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org

LOL

On Sat, Nov 9, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Hassan Schroeder
<hassan.schroeder@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sat, Nov 9, 2013 at 7:33 AM, Jason Long <hack3rcon@yahoo.com> wrote:




> Will ruby die in the future?



The wheel turns -- everything dies eventually.



But I'll bet your 'yahoo.com' email address will go before Ruby  :-)



--

Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.schroeder@gmail.com

http://about.me/hassanschroeder

twitter: @hassan
F555402e879ef6ad937e41bbaedb465b?d=identicon&s=25 Brandon W. (brandon_w)
on 2013-11-09 18:41
(Received via mailing list)
RPG, COBOL. That is all.
0c00d644de3b8bb2f655908c79af25a5?d=identicon&s=25 Matt Lawrence (Guest)
on 2013-11-09 20:11
(Received via mailing list)
On Sat, 9 Nov 2013, Jason Long wrote:
Aa082c8b00a50928e5860dcd70bf2368?d=identicon&s=25 tamouse m. (tamouse_m)
on 2013-11-10 02:20
(Received via mailing list)
On Nov 9, 2013, at 9:33 AM, Jason Long <hack3rcon@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hello Rubyist.
> Will ruby die in the future? We have some new technologies like Node.js and
angular but how ruby can challenge them?
>
> Cheers.

Yes, no, maybe, probably not.

Ruby challenges both Javascript and Coffeescript by being a joy to write
in. Node.js itself is likely to be overtaken by something else, as its
just a bit clunky.

But, really, why are you asking this question? If you are concerned
about relevancy of learning a language down the road, you are entirely
missing the point. Learn as many languages as you can, including old
ones, current ones, and new ones. Learn all the different approaches to
programming languages, procedural, functional and object-oriented.

One should learn to sail in all winds.
A74a68807619459925cc1d8e1045c7bd?d=identicon&s=25 Tony Arcieri (Guest)
on 2013-11-10 04:45
(Received via mailing list)
On Sat, Nov 9, 2013 at 7:33 AM, Jason Long <hack3rcon@yahoo.com> wrote:

> We have some new technologies like Node.js
>

Node.js results in unmaintainable code written by hand in continuation
passing style
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation-passing_style>,
and has no support for multithreaded programming.

All of these problems are addressed in Ruby by my framework Celluloid:

http://celluloid.io/
0cfa94f7ac6e9108db2c3e3438f05364?d=identicon&s=25 felix chang (felix125)
on 2013-11-10 18:47
Jason Long wrote in post #1126816:
> Hello Rubyist.
> Will ruby die in the future? We have some new technologieslike Node.js
> and angular but how ruby can challenge them?
>
> Cheers.

Ruby is a general program,so it can do a lot of things not just in web
development.

But i feel the ruby community had paid too much attention on web
development.
Many people like to compare ruby with python. Yes, ruby has a lot of
fancy feature. But python has won the game in research field. MIT had
switched from Scheme to Python to teach SICP. Why MIT does not pick up
ruby?

From linux system point of view, perl and python still have a big role.

I am a bioinformatics programmer. Everbody around me suggest me use
python or perl, even R. But i still pick up ruby. The sitution is i
always pay more time to develop a wheel that python and perl already be
ready before.
I can't enjoy the advantage in development.

I like ruby , i don't want to see it die. I hope someboy could pay a
little attention on other field, not just in web development.

felix chang
B7daf7c2aa59880d1b066f758f379ad9?d=identicon&s=25 Saji Hameed (Guest)
on 2013-11-11 02:19
(Received via mailing list)
Felix,

I see your point very well. I would also very much want to see Ruby used
more in scientific research. At the same time, it is for people like
us to advance Ruby in these fronts. I hope that there will be a strong
science ruby community one day. Meanwhile let us try to fill the
niche with our individual efforts.

cheers,
saji



Saji N Hameed,
ARC-ENV, Center for Advanced Information Science and Technology,
University of Aizu, Tsuruga, Ikki-machi,
Aizuwakamatsu-shi, Fukushima 965-8580,
Japan

Tel: +81242 37-2736
Fax:+81242 37-2760
 email: saji@u-aizu.ac.jp
 url: http://enformtk.u-aizu.ac.jp
 bib: http://www.researcherid.com/rid/B-9188-2009
code: https://github.com/sajinh
8b829442a8e60a4e236ed5ec15092346?d=identicon&s=25 Max Haas (Guest)
on 2013-11-11 03:32
(Received via mailing list)
Felix,


I dont know if it can be known how many use Ruby for research in
science/in humanities. We are not professional programmers but need to
have programming skills to do our job at universities but not more.


Perhaps this is kind of a feedback:

I worked in humanities (musicology) at a Swiss university (Im now
retired). I do investigations in old chant repertories. Question: how to
find out symptoms for oral tradition (use of the same segments, of
formulas; use of similar segments etc.) The problem was always to find a
programming language with great graphic capabilities.  I first did this
around 1990-ca.2000 in Lisp (on a Mac), then (Lisp was finally too
expensive for my budget) in Java, then (for the iPad) in Objective-C.
Besides this I always used script languages (Perl, Python) for certain
tasks. Finally I understood that this is (for my problem solving) the
wrong approach. Its possible to take Ruby as a main language, to write a
little PostScript interpreter and to transform the results in PostScript
code to represent the results in good graphical form. Now Im completely
comfortable and use only Ruby.


Perhaps I may add this: I have no time to do studies in computer
science/informatics. Thats why its important to find a language with a
good documentation and with good programming examples to follow the
steps of others. Ruby offers for this a very good path.


cheers,

Max


[Prof.Dr. Max Haas, Institute for musicology, University of Basel,
Switzerland]


________________________________
Von: ruby-talk [ruby-talk-bounces@ruby-lang.org]" im Auftrag von "Saji
Hameed [saji@u-aizu.ac.jp]
Gesendet: Montag, 11. November 2013 02:17
An: ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org
Betreff: Re: Ruby will be die :(

Felix,

I see your point very well. I would also very much want to see Ruby used
more in scientific research. At the same time, it is for people like
us to advance Ruby in these fronts. I hope that there will be a strong
science ruby community one day. Meanwhile let us try to fill the
niche with our individual efforts.

cheers,
saji



Saji N Hameed,
ARC-ENV, Center for Advanced Information Science and Technology,
University of Aizu, Tsuruga, Ikki-machi,
Aizuwakamatsu-shi, Fukushima 965-8580,
Japan

Tel: +81242 37-2736
Fax:+81242 37-2760
 email: saji@u-aizu.ac.jp<mailto:saji@u-aizu.ac.jp>
 url: http://enformtk.u-aizu.ac.jp
 bib: http://www.researcherid.com/rid/B-9188-2009
code: https://github.com/sajinh


On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 2:47 AM, felix chang
<lists@ruby-forum.com<mailto:lists@ruby-forum.com>> wrote:
Jason Long wrote in post #1126816:
> Hello Rubyist.
> Will ruby die in the future? We have some new technologieslike Node.js
> and angular but how ruby can challenge them?
>
> Cheers.

Ruby is a general program,so it can do a lot of things not just in web
development.

But i feel the ruby community had paid too much attention on web
development.
Many people like to compare ruby with python. Yes, ruby has a lot of
fancy feature. But python has won the game in research field. MIT had
switched from Scheme to Python to teach SICP. Why MIT does not pick up
ruby?

From linux system point of view, perl and python still have a big role.

I am a bioinformatics programmer. Everbody around me suggest me use
python or perl, even R. But i still pick up ruby. The sitution is i
always pay more time to develop a wheel that python and perl already be
ready before.
I can't enjoy the advantage in development.

I like ruby , i don't want to see it die. I hope someboy could pay a
little attention on other field, not just in web development.

felix chang
Adf7d4a2a49161a48ca1863a49f8af37?d=identicon&s=25 Carlos Agarie (Guest)
on 2013-11-11 05:29
(Received via mailing list)
I worked in humanities (musicology) at a Swiss university (Im now
retired). I do investigations in old chant repertories. Question: how to
find out symptoms for oral tradition (use of the same segments, of
formulas; use of similar segments etc.) The problem was always to find a
programming language with great graphic capabilities.  I first did this
around 1990-ca.2000 in Lisp (on a Mac), then (Lisp was finally too
expensive for my budget) in Java, then (for the iPad) in Objective-C.
Besides this I always used script languages (Perl, Python) for certain
tasks. Finally I understood that this is (for my problem solving) the
wrong
approach. Its possible to take Ruby as a main language, to write a
little
PostScript interpreter and to transform the results in PostScript code
to
represent the results in good graphical form. Now Im completely
comfortable and use only Ruby.


Max,

That's very cool. For how long did you use Ruby for this (these)
task(s)?
And do you have any suggestions in mind, so we could bring more people
to
use Ruby for these tasks?

At the moment, you guys should take a look at SciRuby and NMatrix. There
was lots of effort spent on them in the last months due to Google Summer
of
Code:

http://sciruby.com/

https://github.com/sciruby/nmatrix

Ciao,


-----
Carlos Agarie
Software Engineer @ Geekie (geekie.com.br)
+55 11 97320-3878
@carlos_agarie


2013/11/11 Max Haas <max.haas@unibas.ch>
8b829442a8e60a4e236ed5ec15092346?d=identicon&s=25 Max Haas (Guest)
on 2013-11-11 09:34
(Received via mailing list)
Carlos,


1. I started with Ruby 1.87. With the combination of Ruby and PostScript
I started three months ago.

2. You ask for suggestion. I give a short sketch of my daily problems
(typical for somebody doing research in the humanities).


a. For many languages we have no good grammar nor a good lexicon. We
help ourselves with textual corpora which are given by good souls, e.g.
Thesaurus Musicarum Latinarum (Latin texts concerning music, written
between the third and the secenteenth century in Latin, more than 900
files); or: the works of Thomas Aquinas (some hundred files). These
texts are offered in the internet. Its a good practice to write a script
to download them. When we look for words (e.g. with grep in Unix) we
have the basis for our private lexicon.


b. My data are stored in a file (14532 lines: seven lines = one set =
2076 * 7, meaning 2076 chants). I read in the sets in a class X and
store the result with marshal.


c. In a class X I have a line called notes and a line called syllables.
I give a shortened example:

notes: [O-] a g c' d' c' h ss [ri-] c' d' ss [e-] d' or e' f' d' ss
[tur] d' ss [in] d' ss [di-] d' ss [e-] d' ss [bus]

syllables: O- ri- e- tur in di- e- bus


Task:

- Prepare a hash-table with items called musical notes (c d e f g )

- read the lines and split them.

- Iterate over notes.

- if the first character of an item is [ then it indicates a syllable.
Take it from syllable and display it

- if an item is in the hash-table then its a (musical) note. Display it


Its a bit more complicated if I should display say 50 chants and
coordinate the graphics in such a way that certain passages appear at
the same position of the x-axis. Etc.


Your question: I think that all basic tutorials answer my first
questions. I rewrite my code every two or three months helped by
ruby-doc.org. The more I work in my field and try to find formalization
the more I understand my musicological ideas. To rewrite the code is
then the test for my understanding.


========


As you can see there are many solutions offered for tasks of this kind.
My starting point was Ruby Cookbook.


cheers


Max

________________________________
Von: ruby-talk [ruby-talk-bounces@ruby-lang.org]" im Auftrag von "Carlos
Agarie [carlos.agarie@gmail.com]
Gesendet: Montag, 11. November 2013 05:28
An: Ruby users
Betreff: Re: Ruby will be die :(

I worked in humanities (musicology) at a Swiss university (Im now
retired). I do investigations in old chant repertories. Question: how to
find out symptoms for oral tradition (use of the same segments, of
formulas; use of similar segments etc.) The problem was always to find a
programming language with great graphic capabilities.  I first did this
around 1990-ca.2000 in Lisp (on a Mac), then (Lisp was finally too
expensive for my budget) in Java, then (for the iPad) in Objective-C.
Besides this I always used script languages (Perl, Python) for certain
tasks. Finally I understood that this is (for my problem solving) the
wrong approach. Its possible to take Ruby as a main language, to write a
little PostScript interpreter and to transform the results in PostScript
code to represent the results in good graphical form. Now Im completely
comfortable and use only Ruby.

Max,

That's very cool. For how long did you use Ruby for this (these)
task(s)? And do you have any suggestions in mind, so we could bring more
people to use Ruby for these tasks?

At the moment, you guys should take a look at SciRuby and NMatrix. There
was lots of effort spent on them in the last months due to Google Summer
of Code:

http://sciruby.com/

https://github.com/sciruby/nmatrix

Ciao,


-----
Carlos Agarie
Software Engineer @ Geekie (geekie.com.br<http://geekie.com.br>)
+55 11 97320-3878
@carlos_agarie


2013/11/11 Max Haas <max.haas@unibas.ch<mailto:max.haas@unibas.ch>>

Felix,


I dont know if it can be known how many use Ruby for research in
science/in humanities. We are not professional programmers but need to
have programming skills to do our job at universities but not more.


Perhaps this is kind of a feedback:

I worked in humanities (musicology) at a Swiss university (Im now
retired). I do investigations in old chant repertories. Question: how to
find out symptoms for oral tradition (use of the same segments, of
formulas; use of similar segments etc.) The problem was always to find a
programming language with great graphic capabilities.  I first did this
around 1990-ca.2000 in Lisp (on a Mac), then (Lisp was finally too
expensive for my budget) in Java, then (for the iPad) in Objective-C.
Besides this I always used script languages (Perl, Python) for certain
tasks. Finally I understood that this is (for my problem solving) the
wrong approach. Its possible to take Ruby as a main language, to write a
little PostScript interpreter and to transform the results in PostScript
code to represent the results in good graphical form. Now Im completely
comfortable and use only Ruby.


Perhaps I may add this: I have no time to do studies in computer
science/informatics. Thats why its important to find a language with a
good documentation and with good programming examples to follow the
steps of others. Ruby offers for this a very good path.


cheers,

Max


[Prof.Dr. Max Haas, Institute for musicology, University of Basel,
Switzerland]


________________________________
Von: ruby-talk
[ruby-talk-bounces@ruby-lang.org<mailto:ruby-talk-bounces@ruby-lang.org>]"
im Auftrag von "Saji Hameed
[saji@u-aizu.ac.jp<mailto:saji@u-aizu.ac.jp>]
Gesendet: Montag, 11. November 2013 02:17
An: ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org<mailto:ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org>
Betreff: Re: Ruby will be die :(

Felix,

I see your point very well. I would also very much want to see Ruby used
more in scientific research. At the same time, it is for people like
us to advance Ruby in these fronts. I hope that there will be a strong
science ruby community one day. Meanwhile let us try to fill the
niche with our individual efforts.

cheers,
saji



Saji N Hameed,
ARC-ENV, Center for Advanced Information Science and Technology,
University of Aizu, Tsuruga, Ikki-machi,
Aizuwakamatsu-shi, Fukushima 965-8580,
Japan

Tel: +81242 37-2736<tel:%2B81242%2037-2736>
Fax:+81242 37-2760<tel:%2B81242%2037-2760>
 email: saji@u-aizu.ac.jp<mailto:saji@u-aizu.ac.jp>
 url: http://enformtk.u-aizu.ac.jp
 bib: http://www.researcherid.com/rid/B-9188-2009
code: https://github.com/sajinh


On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 2:47 AM, felix chang
<lists@ruby-forum.com<mailto:lists@ruby-forum.com>> wrote:
Jason Long wrote in post #1126816:
> Hello Rubyist.
> Will ruby die in the future? We have some new technologieslike Node.js
> and angular but how ruby can challenge them?
>
> Cheers.

Ruby is a general program,so it can do a lot of things not just in web
development.

But i feel the ruby community had paid too much attention on web
development.
Many people like to compare ruby with python. Yes, ruby has a lot of
fancy feature. But python has won the game in research field. MIT had
switched from Scheme to Python to teach SICP. Why MIT does not pick up
ruby?

From linux system point of view, perl and python still have a big role.

I am a bioinformatics programmer. Everbody around me suggest me use
python or perl, even R. But i still pick up ruby. The sitution is i
always pay more time to develop a wheel that python and perl already be
ready before.
I can't enjoy the advantage in development.

I like ruby , i don't want to see it die. I hope someboy could pay a
little attention on other field, not just in web development.

felix chang
Aa082c8b00a50928e5860dcd70bf2368?d=identicon&s=25 tamouse m. (tamouse_m)
on 2013-11-11 16:45
(Received via mailing list)
No. You completely misconstrued my point.

A *specific* language, technology, etc, that is  currently seeing quite
a bit of good use is never going to be a waste of time to learn. You say
you dont like to learn a language that will be destroyed in the future.
There is no such language yet. All computer languages build on each
other. A fair bit of what you see in Javascript appeared first in Algol
60 (thats right, in 1960) and through evolution has come to be what it
is, picking up from C and other languages. Similarly, Ruby has been
built on concepts first explored in Lisp (1959) and SmallTalk (1972).
Understanding any language today will pay off in learning new languages
in the future.

If you do not wish to learn Ruby, no one is going to make you. But Im
not going to tell you its not worth it.

It is *also* worth it to learn Javascript, Coffeescript, and about
technologies like node.js.

But if you want to be guaranteed anything, then the only thing I can say
there is to look to Java, which is still over 40% of the web application
development.

Your move.
0cfa94f7ac6e9108db2c3e3438f05364?d=identicon&s=25 felix chang (felix125)
on 2013-11-11 17:18
I had tried to install nmatrix few month ago. I am a Archlinux user and
found Arch do not have ATLAS package. I had tried to install from souce
, but failed. So I picked up narray as an alternative.


>
> At the moment, you guys should take a look at SciRuby and NMatrix. There
> was lots of effort spent on them in the last months due to Google Summer
> of
> Code:
>
> http://sciruby.com/
>
> https://github.com/sciruby/nmatrix
>
> Ciao,
Adf7d4a2a49161a48ca1863a49f8af37?d=identicon&s=25 Carlos Agarie (Guest)
on 2013-11-11 19:26
(Received via mailing list)
Yeah, there were some problems with NMatrix installation due to these
dependencies, but most of them are working pretty well right now.

And thanks for the feedback, Max. :)


-----
Carlos Agarie
Software Engineer @ Geekie (geekie.com.br)
+55 11 97320-3878
@carlos_agarie


2013/11/11 felix chang <lists@ruby-forum.com>
0e6ac58dab6125c1cd2e7ac645076b6f?d=identicon&s=25 Joel VanderWerf (Guest)
on 2013-11-11 20:35
(Received via mailing list)
On 11/10/2013 08:28 PM, Carlos Agarie wrote:
> http://sciruby.com/
>
> https://github.com/sciruby/nmatrix

Good to see someone's keeping up the sciruby flame.

Btw, if anyone is interested in ODEs, hybrid systems (discrete and
continuous behavior), Simulink-type dataflow simulation, numerical
integration, etc.:

https://github.com/vjoel/redshift
gem install redshift
Aa082c8b00a50928e5860dcd70bf2368?d=identicon&s=25 tamouse m. (tamouse_m)
on 2013-11-12 10:06
(Received via mailing list)
On Nov 11, 2013, at 3:28 AM, Jason Long <hack3rcon@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hello Tamara.
> How are you? I hope you feel good.
> Excuse me, Can you reply my previous email?
>

I did.
699c00ad35f2755810b4aa5f423d73e2?d=identicon&s=25 Albert Schlef (alby)
on 2013-11-13 13:33
Max Haas wrote in post #1126924:
> The more I work in my field and try to find formalization
> the more I understand my musicological ideas. To rewrite the code is
> then the test for my understanding.

I totally agree.

I'm doing the same with verb conjugation in a certain language (Arabic).
I am/was writing a program that reads a set of rules and based on them
conjugates a verb. My rules are a *lot* easier to read than the
equivalent 200 pages in a grammar book.

What's more, I know [when] my rules contain all the knowledge they need
to contain because I examine their output and see that it's correct. You
can't say the same about a grammar book because its author might have
forgotten one detail or another.

Not all is pink: this "formalization" work can be very difficult. But
the result is rewarding.
9a45896e48a382fe5c656b8873e0dfcb?d=identicon&s=25 Stu (Guest)
on 2013-11-14 20:31
(Received via mailing list)
@felix

Working through sicp myself. I believe it's still taught but optional.
Brown does something clever. They make their student use scheme to
implement core python. That probably defeats the whole "great I can
implement a language but I'm now going to have to use a common mindshare
toolset when I get into the real world" --


@max

My first ruby project was similar. It generated music for a student to
build coordination and muscle memory from a calculation I had on both
generating the rhythms and reducing the exercises to build canonically
from
each other. Think "the little schemer" for musicians =)

@OP
Ruby will be here forever. I still program in many languages older than
myself. As long as there is a UNIX there will be a place for Ruby. Also
after all the web developers get bored and start playing with shiny new
toys we can begin to reimpliment the features which they removed because
it
would be to /hard/ to implement in the JVM and therefor we all have to
suffer. Which will it be; maybe go? clojure or erlang!
Bee69cfed999cd13e3bff73d472a39ee?d=identicon&s=25 Hassan Schroeder (Guest)
on 2013-11-14 21:12
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Stu <stu@rubyprogrammer.net> wrote:

> after all the web developers get bored and start playing with shiny new toys
> we can begin to reimpliment the features which they removed because it would
> be to /hard/ to implement in the JVM and ...

?! "web developers" and "implement in the JVM" would seem to be
entirely orthogonal in the universe I'm familiar with  :-)
699c00ad35f2755810b4aa5f423d73e2?d=identicon&s=25 Albert Schlef (alby)
on 2013-11-15 01:07
Stu wrote in post #1127403:
> after all the web developers get bored and start playing with shiny new
> toys we can begin to reimpliment the features which they removed because
> it would be to /hard/ to implement in the JVM and therefor we all have to
> suffer.

What do you mean here?
41d4ee7d85eee6a9f8f9d29d3114ad85?d=identicon&s=25 Rodrigo Botafogo (rbotafogo)
on 2013-11-19 21:28
I´ve just released MDArray 0.5.5.  It has similar features as NumPy and
NArray, but for JRuby.  Might interest people on this thread.

Cheers,


Rodrigo
4828d528e2e46f7c8160c336eb332836?d=identicon&s=25 Robert Heiler (shevegen)
on 2013-11-20 02:13
"the web developers get bored and start playing with shiny new toys we
can begin to reimpliment the features which they removed"

Not everyone is a "web developer".

I started with Ruby before Rails.

Whether rails exists or not makes no difference to me.

I needed a better language than perl or php and ruby fits here.

Ruby is perl done right.
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