Forum: Ruby on Rails pure ajax ui

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Cb48ca5059faf7409a5ab3745a964696?d=identicon&s=25 ara.t.howard (Guest)
on 2005-11-27 00:54
(Received via mailing list)
surely i'm not the first to think of this, but lately i've been
considering
abstracting data access to a degree where all data methods simply return
a
list of results and these are made available as a web service.  this,
with the
addition of a pure ajax ui could make a sort of thin client architecture
possible where a client simply made a single request to a server that
responded one time with the entirety of the ui and all subsequent server
requests would be for data only via xmlhttp.  obivously people are doing
this
in varying degrees everywhere in rails land - i'm wondering if anyone
out
there has taken it to it's logical extreme whereby rail's fcgi code did
__nothing__ except return javascript/html describing a complete ui (note
that
this bit could in some cases be a static page) and all subsequent data
access
was done via this ui and it's xmlhttp hooks.

i've been out of web land for quite some time so go easy on me if this
happend
eight months ago.

kind regards.

-a
--
===============================================================================
| ara [dot] t [dot] howard [at] noaa [dot] gov
| all happiness comes from the desire for others to be happy.  all misery
| comes from the desire for oneself to be happy.
| -- bodhicaryavatara
===============================================================================
4c3511a439ed90fa012a55928a60e230?d=identicon&s=25 curt.hibbs (Guest)
on 2005-11-27 04:35
(Received via mailing list)
This is precisely how Google's Gmail works.

Curt
Cb48ca5059faf7409a5ab3745a964696?d=identicon&s=25 ara.t.howard (Guest)
on 2005-11-27 16:51
(Received via mailing list)
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005, Curt Hibbs wrote:

> This is precisely how Google's Gmail works.

hi curt-

yeah, i knew that.  are you sure it's 100% ajax though?  100% is quite a
bit
different from 99% because then, and only then, could one consider the
client
app as a traditional gui app wrt state and code it thus.  also, in my
mind a
call for an html snippet is not acceptable since it puts view back on
the
server.  i'm looking for an example of an app where, except for the
initial
request for the html/javascript ui, every single other operation is only
an
xmlhttp method call on the server's controllers - zero html going back
an
forth.

in any case, what i'm really wondering is where a fella would get going
on
sure a ui without totally rolling thier own.  i know there are toolkits
like
backbase and dojo which address some of the show stopper like
bookmarking,
back-buttons, etc and which provide a small set of widgets but have any
open-source best practices or, better, frameworks arisen which address
the
entire system end to end?  afaikt - no.  the best approach seems like it
might
be rails + toolkit.js of choice.  thoughts?

-a
--
===============================================================================
| ara [dot] t [dot] howard [at] noaa [dot] gov
| all happiness comes from the desire for others to be happy.  all misery
| comes from the desire for oneself to be happy.
| -- bodhicaryavatara
===============================================================================
Ce60c4f78a63b0695e4dafc4bd7964f7?d=identicon&s=25 vanek (Guest)
on 2005-11-27 21:26
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If you can wait, Tibet will be out in a few months,
http://technicalpursuit.com/

You can subscribe to their RSS feed, and if you ask nicely they
will send you a beta of all their code (and a few docs).
[William Edney bedney@technicalpursuit.com]

Lately they have been struggling getting it to work with acceptable
speed on IE--IE deteriates badly when there are more than
4000 javascript objects instantiated, according to their tests.

They say there's going to be an open source license but I haven't
seen it.

It's not Ruby, but Javascript is about as close as you can get,
http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/...

-lv
C8082d0fd361bcf74fc487183992dc76?d=identicon&s=25 ng (Guest)
on 2005-12-11 16:31
(Received via mailing list)
http://www.zimbra.com/products/hosted_demo.php

It's not done in Rails but I guess that is the kind of thing you're
talking about. So it has already happened while you were out of web land
;) I'm pretty sure there are more applications like this running in
corporate Intranets without us knowing about them.

While a mostly AJAX based interface seems a natural fit for PIM-Suites,
I can't think of much more sensible implementations though. OK something
like MS Access, a phpMyAdmin clone. But that's already been done too:
http://www.turboajax.com/turbodbadmin_demo/

And of course ther's the to-be-gmail-killer: http://www.roundcube.net

Now I really can't think of any more sensible implemantations :D

Regards,
Niels
8c7a98649cdbbdf39eeed17ca9bdbbd3?d=identicon&s=25 josh.charles (Guest)
on 2005-12-11 16:36
(Received via mailing list)
On 11/26/05, Niels Ganser <ng@nerdking.de> wrote:
>
> http://www.zimbra.com/products/hosted_demo.php
>

I tried to visit this, but recieved a java error.  Is it anything like
Morfik?  Now that looks like a product with alot of potential.

> While a mostly AJAX based interface seems a natural fit for PIM-Suites, I can't think of
>much more sensible implementations though.

Ah, but there is alot you can do with it beyond simple PIM suites.
Morfik is a good example for that.
Cb48ca5059faf7409a5ab3745a964696?d=identicon&s=25 ara.t.howard (Guest)
on 2005-12-11 16:36
(Received via mailing list)
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005, Niels Ganser wrote:

> MS Access, a phpMyAdmin clone. But that's already been done too:
> http://www.turboajax.com/turbodbadmin_demo/
>
> And of course ther's the to-be-gmail-killer: http://www.roundcube.net
>
> Now I really can't think of any more sensible implemantations :D
>
> Regards,
> Niels

thanks for the links niels - good stuff.  it's not too snappy though is
it?  i
guess that much javascript is a lot for firefox...

cheers.

-a
--
===============================================================================
| ara [dot] t [dot] howard [at] noaa [dot] gov
| all happiness comes from the desire for others to be happy.  all misery
| comes from the desire for oneself to be happy.
| -- bodhicaryavatara
===============================================================================
Ac7ff1e49fdefdaf75f4e46be5d1cdff?d=identicon&s=25 rails.list (Guest)
on 2005-12-11 16:36
(Received via mailing list)
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 20:05:44 -0600, Josh Charles
<josh.charles@gmail.com> wrote:
>> http://www.zimbra.com/products/hosted_demo.php
>
> I tried to visit this, but recieved a java error.  Is it anything like
> Morfik?  Now that looks like a product with alot of potential.

Well, Morfik is not an actual web application but rather some kind of
framework, isn't it? I'm very impressed by what it promises to "deliver"
but again: I can't think of too many senisble implementations. As far as
I remeber there to-be-flagship-application is some kind of offline
enabled GMail. That would certainly fall under the category PIM.

AJAX is a good thing â?¢, it has even been before adaptivepath decided to
call it AJAX (somebody should have trademarked that ;)). Nevertheless I
am under the impression that currently there it is at least as hyped as
Google shares :) There aren't too many places where you can use it on a
normal website. All the cool kids now have a live search but beyond
that? Certainly I'm glad more people are aware of it, since it means
that _some_ useful things will be done with it but it is not the
solution to all our problems and definitely not the answer to all our
prayers ("pleeeeease let all the IE bugs vanish by night").

Anyway.. it looks cool and it has a snappy name. Hooray! ;)
Ac7ff1e49fdefdaf75f4e46be5d1cdff?d=identicon&s=25 rails.list (Guest)
on 2005-12-11 16:36
(Received via mailing list)
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:53:42 -0700 (MST), "Ara.T.Howard"
<ara.t.howard@noaa.gov> wrote:
> thanks for the links niels - good stuff.  it's not too snappy though is
> it?  i
> guess that much javascript is a lot for firefox...

Chances are, the demo servers are just overloaded. At least roundcube is
quite slippy when running on a reasonable fast server. Download it and
give it a try. Or order an email account on my superfast servers *cough*
;)

- Niels.
3203ed0e608d3bfae1e31282e629ffa2?d=identicon&s=25 peter.fitzgibbons (Guest)
on 2005-12-11 16:36
(Received via mailing list)
On 11/26/05, Niels Ganser <rails.list@depoll.de> wrote:
> framework, isn't it? I'm very impressed by what it promises to "deliver" but
> things will be done with it but it is not the solution to all our problems
> and definitely not the answer to all our prayers ("pleeeeease let all the IE
> bugs vanish by night").
>
> Anyway.. it looks cool and it has a snappy name. Hooray! ;)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>


How does your idea compare to Laszlo
<http://www.laszlosystems.com/developers/>?
--
Cb48ca5059faf7409a5ab3745a964696?d=identicon&s=25 ara.t.howard (Guest)
on 2005-12-11 16:36
(Received via mailing list)
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005, Peter Fitzgibbons wrote:



> How does your idea compare to Laszlo
> <http://www.laszlosystems.com/developers/>?

hey - that's close!  too bad it's j2eeeeeks.  and i was envisioning
using ruby
and a dsl to describe the gui ;-)

thanks for the pointer.


-a
132a94ca65959bda6c74fae54bff2425?d=identicon&s=25 ezra (Guest)
on 2005-12-11 16:36
(Received via mailing list)
On Nov 27, 2005, at 7:48 AM, Ara.T.Howard wrote:

>
> thanks for the pointer.
>
>
> -a
> --

Ara-

	The lazlo stuff is actually driven with xml files. So you could
create a dsl to generate the xml that creates the interface. There is
someone working on a lazlo/rails integration project somehwere. I
don't think they have made much headway yet though. If you intend to
work on this further let me know as i would be glad to pitch in.

Cheers
-Ezra Zygmuntowicz
WebMaster
Yakima Herald-Republic Newspaper
ezra@yakima-herald.com
509-577-7732
1bac2e65d64faf472cf2ebc94f0f5ee0?d=identicon&s=25 ara.t.howard (Guest)
on 2005-12-11 16:36
(Received via mailing list)
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005, Ezra Zygmuntowicz wrote:

> 	The lazlo stuff is actually driven with xml files. So you could create
> 	a dsl to generate the xml that creates the interface. There is someone
> 	working on a lazlo/rails integration project somehwere. I don't think
> 	they have made much headway yet though. If you intend to work on this
> 	further let me know as i would be glad to pitch in.

hi ezra-

i had that thought too ezra.  this is definitely worth looking at more.
i
skimmed the docs but need to get a deeper understanding about what the
j2ee
server component provides that cannot be provided via a normal httpd
server;
if it's significant i'd probably not pursue it further, if it is not i'd
consider that approach.

cheers.

-a
--
===============================================================================
| ara [dot] t [dot] howard [at] noaa [dot] gov
| all happiness comes from the desire for others to be happy.  all misery
| comes from the desire for oneself to be happy.
| -- bodhicaryavatara
===============================================================================
9a5c497293dffb91cacef202bad5b602?d=identicon&s=25 jasonlee9 (Guest)
on 2005-12-11 16:36
(Received via mailing list)
I've had some friends that worked at Laszlo and apparently it was a
significant task to take the XML & Javascript and convert them to
a .swf, so good luck ;)

While I like the markup, I still find Flash interfaces - for real
applications - leave much to be desired.. When IE gets around to
supporting the canvas tag, I would put my bet on canvas + ajax.

- jason
3dd4b52a0946bd698b1d1635a46ea3a3?d=identicon&s=25 francois.beausoleil (Guest)
on 2005-12-11 16:36
(Received via mailing list)
Hi !

2005/11/27, Ezra Zygmuntowicz <ezra@yakima-herald.com>:
>         The lazlo stuff is actually driven with xml files. So you could
> create a dsl to generate the xml that creates the interface. There is
> someone working on a lazlo/rails integration project somehwere. I
> don't think they have made much headway yet though. If you intend to
> work on this further let me know as i would be glad to pitch in.

Any chance of a URL / E-Mail address ?  I'm going to have to build
something this afternoon to connect OpenLaszlo to my Rails app, if I
can.

Thanks !
5c6727e573b7be20dea6a6880856a888?d=identicon&s=25 mike.pence (Guest)
on 2005-12-11 16:36
(Received via mailing list)
Work on a Laszlo-on-Rails effort is definitely underway. I am hoping
to get Get Serious about it in the coming weeks and anyone is welcome
to joing the mailing list at
http://groups.google.com/group/laszlo-on-rails.

Oliver Steele, Laszlo's Chief Archtiect, has been kind enough to
outline a very thorough use case. Now that my work situation has been
resolved I am hoping to get right on it.

Best,
Mike Pence
71f1b6b2c3fd9af2e8c52618fb91caa6?d=identicon&s=25 Jules Jacobs (jules)
on 2005-12-11 17:33
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