Forum: Ruby Time for a ruby-announce list?

Announcement (2017-05-07): www.ruby-forum.com is now read-only since I unfortunately do not have the time to support and maintain the forum any more. Please see rubyonrails.org/community and ruby-lang.org/en/community for other Rails- und Ruby-related community platforms.
45196398e9685000d195ec626d477f0e?d=identicon&s=25 Thomas Sawyer (7rans)
on 2009-06-24 11:07
(Received via mailing list)
We are seeing a lot or release announcements among the regular posts
these days, taking up a larger and larger percentage of total posts.
Perhaps if we have a separate list for them then:

1) ruby-talk itself would improve

2) we'd all know were to look to see what's new without having to
sift

3) other people besides Ryan Davis would announce their projects ;-)

T.
87e41d0d468ad56a3b07d9a6482fd6d5?d=identicon&s=25 Hemant Kumar (gnufied)
on 2009-06-24 11:16
(Received via mailing list)
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Trans<transfire@gmail.com> wrote:
> We are seeing a lot or release announcements among the regular posts
> these days, taking up a larger and larger percentage of total posts.
> Perhaps if we have a separate list for them then:
>
> 1) ruby-talk itself would improve

How?

> 2) we'd all know were to look to see what's new without having to
> sift

Again How? Many folks use filtered feed of ruby-talk that just caters
to announcements (rather than subscribing to mailing list).
Announcements are very important part of ruby-talk, moving
announcements to a different list serves little purpose.

>
> 3) other people besides Ryan Davis would announce their projects ;-)

Announce away! And may be we should send some ninjas to take away
zenspider's keyboard!
5a837592409354297424994e8d62f722?d=identicon&s=25 Ryan Davis (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 11:25
(Received via mailing list)
On Jun 24, 2009, at 02:06 , Trans wrote:

> We are seeing a lot or release announcements among the regular posts
> these days, taking up a larger and larger percentage of total posts.
> Perhaps if we have a separate list for them then:

Not counting my latest flood of releases, there are 40 announcements
out of 480 email over the last week or roughly 8.33%. If you do count
my flood, then it is 72 out of 529 or roughly 13.6%. Either way I
hardly think that constitutes the need for another list. seattle.rb,
ruby-core, ruby-talk, rubygems-developers, and UW-ruby... I don't need
any more ruby based mailing lists. Really, and this is coming from the
person who beat you to the punch by SEVEN years [1].

> 1) ruby-talk itself would improve

it would?

> 2) we'd all know were to look to see what's new without having to
> sift

see that "@gmail.com" part of your email address? I hear they're
pretty good at this sort of thing. Even my lowly mac mail app seems to
do a damn good job of it.

> 3) other people besides Ryan Davis would announce their projects ;-)

they would?

speculate much?

1) http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/...
and http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/...
5a837592409354297424994e8d62f722?d=identicon&s=25 Ryan Davis (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 11:27
(Received via mailing list)
On Jun 24, 2009, at 02:15 , hemant wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Trans<transfire@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 3) other people besides Ryan Davis would announce their projects ;-)
> Announce away! And may be we should send some ninjas to take away
> zenspider's keyboard!

Double Dog Dare you. :P
4feed660d3728526797edeb4f0467384?d=identicon&s=25 Bill Kelly (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 11:29
(Received via mailing list)
From: "Trans" <transfire@gmail.com>
>
> 2) we'd all know were to look to see what's new without having to
> sift

Geez, even my crappy Microsquish email client can do:

 if Subject contains "[ANN]"
 then move to folder "ruby-talk-announce"


... if i wanted it to, that is.

:)


Regards,

Bill
34a7615f38496a5dafbb3e6b721c435e?d=identicon&s=25 Mohit Sindhwani (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 11:34
(Received via mailing list)
Trans wrote:
>
I'd have to vote No!  I think a Ruby Talk list is perfectly the correct
place (in my mind) to have announcements related to things Ruby
developers use/ might want.  I have seen numerous threads where people
have announced a gem only for it to be followed by quick responses on
problems people are facing, what might be wrong with it, etc.  This
would become a bit more difficult if the gem were announced only on a
separate list.

Cheers,
Mohit.
6/24/2009 | 5:30 PM.
703fbc991fd63e0e1db54dca9ea31b53?d=identicon&s=25 Robert Dober (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 11:39
(Received via mailing list)
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Ryan Davis<ryand-ruby@zenspider.com>
wrote:
> Double Dog Dare you. :P
Nice one ;).
Sorry Tom, I stole your idea in the other thread, needless to say that
I back you up on this ;)

Cheers
Robert
>
>
>



--
Toutes les grandes personnes ont d’abord été des enfants, mais peu
d’entre elles s’en souviennent.

All adults have been children first, but not many remember.

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]
703fbc991fd63e0e1db54dca9ea31b53?d=identicon&s=25 Robert Dober (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 11:42
(Received via mailing list)
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:29 AM, Bill Kelly<billk@cts.com> wrote:
>
>
> ... if i wanted it to, that is.
>
> :)
Now that is a philosophical question, personally I prefer to filter on
the ML address rather than on the subject line, seems much more
reliable. But it is a great thing to do in the meantime if one is
bothered ....
R
45196398e9685000d195ec626d477f0e?d=identicon&s=25 Thomas Sawyer (7rans)
on 2009-06-24 12:13
(Received via mailing list)
On Jun 24, 5:15 am, hemant <gethem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Trans<transf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > We are seeing a lot or release announcements among the regular posts
> > these days, taking up a larger and larger percentage of total posts.
> > Perhaps if we have a separate list for them then:
>
> > 1) ruby-talk itself would improve
>
> How?

Increasing the concentration/orientation of list toward Ruby issues,
problem solving, etc. rather then yet another 0.0.1 bump release.

> > 2) we'd all know were to look to see what's new without having to
> > sift
>
> Again How? Many folks use filtered feed of ruby-talk that just caters
> to announcements (rather than subscribing to mailing list).
> Announcements are very important part of ruby-talk, moving
> announcements to a different list serves little purpose.

At the very least it means you wouldn't need a filtered feed ;)
Personally I am interested in both announcements and the rest of ruby-
talk. I would prefer to view the two separately. I am not going to go
out of my way to setup filters that will have only a limited level of
success.

T.
5a837592409354297424994e8d62f722?d=identicon&s=25 Ryan Davis (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 12:35
(Received via mailing list)
On Jun 24, 2009, at 03:12 , trans wrote:

> Personally I am interested in both announcements and the rest of ruby-
> talk. I would prefer to view the two separately. I am not going to go
> out of my way to setup filters that will have only a limited level of
> success.

and yet we should go out of our way to set up an entire mailing list
"that will have only a limited level of success"?
703fbc991fd63e0e1db54dca9ea31b53?d=identicon&s=25 Robert Dober (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 12:45
(Received via mailing list)
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Ryan Davis<ryand-ruby@zenspider.com>
wrote:
>
> On Jun 24, 2009, at 03:12 , trans wrote:
>
>> Personally I am interested in both announcements and the rest of ruby-
>> talk. I would prefer to view the two separately. I am not going to go
>> out of my way to setup filters that will have only a limited level of
>> success.
>
> and yet we should go out of our way to set up an entire mailing list "that
> will have only a limited level of success"?

I have no idea if you should ;). I would like it though as soon as the
[Ann] rate hits a 20~30% mark.

Cheers
Robert
--
Toutes les grandes personnes ont d’abord été des enfants, mais peu
d’entre elles s’en souviennent.

All adults have been children first, but not many remember.

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]
45196398e9685000d195ec626d477f0e?d=identicon&s=25 Thomas Sawyer (7rans)
on 2009-06-24 12:46
(Received via mailing list)
On Jun 24, 5:25 am, Ryan Davis <ryand-r...@zenspider.com> wrote:
> ruby-core, ruby-talk, rubygems-developers, and UW-ruby...
First, I think 8%-13% is a good bit. But more to the point, it could
be much worse. Consider how it would be if everyone announced as
regularly as you do.

Personally, I wish they did. I often learn of new projects just by
chance --usually a mention on some blog. I would like to encourage
more people to make announcements --even those little 0.0.1 bumps. I
like to see it become a very regular habit of all ruby developers. But
if that happened then we can expect that percentage to shoot way way
up.

I also suspect that many people do not announce b/c they don't want to
add too much "noise" to the list or they don't want to announce their
wares for "all to see" if they don't feel is quite up to snuff yet. If
there was a separate list they could feel more at ease about these
considerations, and as a result the whole community could benefit.

> I don't need  
> any more ruby based mailing lists. Really, and this is coming from the  
> person who beat you to the punch by SEVEN years [1].
>
> > 1) ruby-talk itself would improve
>
> it would?

You used to think so too. Do you think now that the lack of
announcements would make ruby-talk worse?

> > 2) we'd all know were to look to see what's new without having to
> > sift
>
> see that "@gmail.com" part of your email address? I hear they're  
> pretty good at this sort of thing. Even my lowly mac mail app seems to  
> do a damn good job of it.

Many people access the list via other means. I use Google Groups.
There is also Usenet and Ruby Forum, among others.  Filtering is not
always so straight-forward.

> > 3) other people besides Ryan Davis would announce their projects ;-)
>
> they would?

Yes, I think they would. See above.

> speculate much?

There's a fine line between calculation and speculation --I think they
call it evaluation.

> 1)http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/...
> andhttp://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/...

I think you make very good points. But something like this cannot work
without being official ruby-lang.org list.

T.
45196398e9685000d195ec626d477f0e?d=identicon&s=25 Thomas Sawyer (7rans)
on 2009-06-24 12:48
(Received via mailing list)
On Jun 24, 5:30 am, Mohit Sindhwani <mo_m...@onghu.com> wrote:

> I'd have to vote No!  I think a Ruby Talk list is perfectly the correct
> place (in my mind) to have announcements related to things Ruby
> developers use/ might want.  I have seen numerous threads where people
> have announced a gem only for it to be followed by quick responses on
> problems people are facing, what might be wrong with it, etc.  This
> would become a bit more difficult if the gem were announced only on a
> separate list.

While "announce" indicates a one way form of speech, unlike "talk", I
take your point. However, there's no reason people can't utilize the
announce list to follow up an announce post with "quick responses on
problems people are facing, what might be wrong with it, etc." Such
posts are geared toward issue with the release itself, which makes
sense.

T.
87e41d0d468ad56a3b07d9a6482fd6d5?d=identicon&s=25 Hemant Kumar (gnufied)
on 2009-06-24 12:50
(Received via mailing list)
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 3:42 PM, trans<transfire@gmail.com> wrote:
>> How?
>
> Increasing the concentration/orientation of list toward Ruby issues,
> problem solving, etc. rather then yet another 0.0.1 bump release.


That concentration/orientation thing is just overrated. That utopia of
a mailing list where only insightful and interesting things will be
discussed is just not going to work (case in point "thoughful-ruby"
mailing list).

> talk. I would prefer to view the two separately. I am not going to go
> out of my way to setup filters that will have only a limited level of
> success.

It also means, you need a separate list to begin with and as Mohit
pointed out sometimes its interesting to have a discussion about
package being announced right here on ruby-talk, which is the right
channel for such things. A separate list for announcements will be too
limited in scope.



--
Let them talk of their oriental summer climes of everlasting
conservatories; give me the privilege of making my own summer with my
own coals.

http://gnufied.org
A5af05af2cafbe739659871b86a07820?d=identicon&s=25 Benjamin L. Russell (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 13:06
(Received via mailing list)
On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 05:43:19 -0500, Robert Dober
<robert.dober@gmail.com> wrote:

>> will have only a limited level of success"?
>
>I have no idea if you should ;). I would like it though as soon as the
>[Ann] rate hits a 20~30% mark.

Actually, there already seems to be a gmane.comp.lang.ruby.announce
newsgroup.  I'm already subscribed to this group right now.

Instead of starting another mailing list, why don't we just resurrect
this existing one?

-- Benjamin L. Russell
4feed660d3728526797edeb4f0467384?d=identicon&s=25 Bill Kelly (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 13:06
(Received via mailing list)
From: "Robert Dober" <robert.dober@gmail.com>
>
> Now that is a philosophical question, personally I prefer to filter on
> the ML address rather than on the subject line, seems much more
> reliable. But it is a great thing to do in the meantime if one is
> bothered ....

Reliable in theory... :)

I can imagine a rough equivalence between posters who
currently don't know to use [ANN], and folks who would end
up posting announcements to ruby-talk regardless of the
existence of a separate "reliable" announce list.

:)


Regards,

Bill
A5af05af2cafbe739659871b86a07820?d=identicon&s=25 Benjamin L. Russell (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 13:40
(Received via mailing list)
On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 06:05:45 -0500, Bill Kelly <billk@cts.com> wrote:

>I can imagine a rough equivalence between posters who
>currently don't know to use [ANN], and folks who would end
>up posting announcements to ruby-talk regardless of the
>existence of a separate "reliable" announce list.
>
>:)

In that case, why not establish a custom of starting discussion of
announcements and topics concerning thereof on [ANN], to be moved to
ruby-talk after a few rounds?  This system is already effectively in
use in at least one functional programming community.

That way, later participants would need to go back to [ANN] to catch
up on first rounds of discussions, so they would need to keep [ANN]
and its purpose in mind.

-- Benjamin L. Russell
47aff267a58c012d222fd4d74f6beb54?d=identicon&s=25 Dominik Honnef (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 14:02
(Received via mailing list)
On [Wed, 24.06.2009 18:06], Trans wrote:
>
> T.

I personally never had a feeling off "Duh, what are all the questions
doing between the announcements", nor the other way around.

One particular thing I really like about this list is that is combines
both announcements and discussions. As I skip through all new threads
I eventually get to see interesting stuff, no matter what exactly it is.

Having those two topics seperated would only seem to be a break in my
usual "Let's see whats up in the Ruby world" reading flow.

If such a seperation would ever take place (besides the fact that it
is hardly possible to cleanly enforce that announcements just go to
one list and general discussions to another) the first thing I'd do
would be to save both MLs to one mailbox.
31e038e4e9330f6c75ccfd1fca8010ee?d=identicon&s=25 Gregory Brown (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 15:03
(Received via mailing list)
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 5:06 AM, Trans<transfire@gmail.com> wrote:
> We are seeing a lot or release announcements among the regular posts
> these days, taking up a larger and larger percentage of total posts.

There already is one:
http://groups.google.com/group/ruby-community-announcements

So far, basically unused.   Easier just to filter on [ANN] tag.

-greg
34a7615f38496a5dafbb3e6b721c435e?d=identicon&s=25 Mohit Sindhwani (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 15:23
(Received via mailing list)
trans wrote:
> While "announce" indicates a one way form of speech, unlike "talk", I
> take your point. However, there's no reason people can't utilize the
> announce list to follow up an announce post with "quick responses on
> problems people are facing, what might be wrong with it, etc." Such
> posts are geared toward issue with the release itself, which makes
> sense.
>

I guess you're right - it really depends.  The way I see it, it keeps
all the talk in one place.  That said, if another list starts to get
used, I would simply sign up to it with the same email address as this
one and let it drop into the same mailbox.  That way, it would work
almost the same - only there is a chance I would get multiple ANN posts
(similar to the way it works between Rails-Talk and Ruby-Talk some
times).

Cheers,
Mohit.
6/24/2009 | 9:22 PM.
Ba91caa4b1fd66471e4180151b379dd7?d=identicon&s=25 Jörg W Mittag (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 15:32
(Received via mailing list)
Trans wrote:
> We are seeing a lot or release announcements among the regular posts
> these days, taking up a larger and larger percentage of total posts.
> Perhaps if we have a separate list for them then:

We already have not one, but *two* such lists. What do you think a
third one would accomplish that two can't?

Also, the success hasn't exactly been overwhelming: the
rubynet-announce list has had exactly 20 mails in over 6 years(!), and
ruby-community-announcements had 28 mails in more than one year.

[...]
> 3) other people besides Ryan Davis would announce their projects ;-)

35% of the announcements on rubynet-announce@lists.rubynet.org are
from Daniel J Berg, 25% from Ryan Davis, 10% each from Anders
Bengtsson and Michael Davis and 5% each from David Alan Black, Simon
Strandgaard, Jeremy Hylton and Francis Hwang. So, around 70% of the
announcements are by the same people who *already* announce on
comp.lang.ruby. The numbers for ruby-community-announcements are
similar: the majority of mails are release announcements for Prawn
from Gregory Brown, S9 announcements from Gerald Bauer plus some stuff
from John Mettraux, Mike Mondragon and Matt Todd, all of whom already
announce on comp.lang.ruby, I believe.
45196398e9685000d195ec626d477f0e?d=identicon&s=25 Thomas Sawyer (7rans)
on 2009-06-24 17:13
(Received via mailing list)
On Jun 24, 9:30 am, Jörg W Mittag <JoergWMittag+Use...@GoogleMail.Com>
wrote:
> ruby-community-announcements had 28 mails in more than one year.
> comp.lang.ruby. The numbers for ruby-community-announcements are
> similar: the majority of mails are release announcements for Prawn
> from Gregory Brown, S9 announcements from Gerald Bauer plus some stuff
> from John Mettraux, Mike Mondragon and Matt Todd, all of whom already
> announce on comp.lang.ruby, I believe.

As I stated earlier, this kind of thing cannot work without being an
official list. No one is going to pay any attention to a list that is
not an offical ruby-lang.org list.

T.
Bec38d63650c8912b6ba9b557fb953b9?d=identicon&s=25 Roger Pack (rogerdpack)
on 2009-06-24 18:44
> We are seeing a lot or release announcements among the regular posts
> these days, taking up a larger and larger percentage of total posts.
> Perhaps if we have a separate list for them then:

+1
I always wish I could subscribe to just the announcements [more than the
rubyforge RSS, which for some reason doesn't get them all] because
subscribing to ruby-talk is too much traffic and I'm too lazy to setup a
filter in my gmail.  Barrier to entry.  Maybe bring it up to the core
fellas?

Thanks!
=r
8f6f95c4bd64d5f10dfddfdcd03c19d6?d=identicon&s=25 Rick Denatale (rdenatale)
on 2009-06-24 19:29
(Received via mailing list)
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Gregory
Brown<gregory.t.brown@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 5:06 AM, Trans<transfire@gmail.com> wrote:
>> We are seeing a lot or release announcements among the regular posts
>> these days, taking up a larger and larger percentage of total posts.
>
> There already is one:
> http://groups.google.com/group/ruby-community-announcements
>
> So far, basically unused.   Easier just to filter on [ANN] tag.


So in a year or so this has 26 threads and 28 posts.

I think that that's ample evidence that a separate group isn't a very
popular idea.

I'm all for keeping the announcements right here thank you.  I already
have way too many info sources to aggregate already.


--
Rick DeNatale

Blog: http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/RickDeNatale
WWR: http://www.workingwithrails.com/person/9021-rick-denatale
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rickdenatale
31e038e4e9330f6c75ccfd1fca8010ee?d=identicon&s=25 Gregory Brown (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 19:44
(Received via mailing list)
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Rick DeNatale<rick.denatale@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> So in a year or so this has 26 threads and 28 posts.
>
> I think that that's ample evidence that a separate group isn't a very
> popular idea.
>
> I'm all for keeping the announcements right here thank you.  I already
> have way too many info sources to aggregate already.

I agree.  It seemed like a good idea at the time and didn't catch on.
Since I had to double post all my announcements anyway, its easier
just to set up filters on RubyTalk.

-greg
Fa2521c6539342333de9f42502657e5a?d=identicon&s=25 Eleanor McHugh (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 19:50
(Received via mailing list)
On 24 Jun 2009, at 18:43, Gregory Brown wrote:
>
> I agree.  It seemed like a good idea at the time and didn't catch on.
> Since I had to double post all my announcements anyway, its easier
> just to set up filters on RubyTalk.

Let's face it, we're still not that big a community and until there's
a couple of thousand regular posters all announcing their latest
projects there really isn't going to be sufficient pressure to make a
separate announcements list worthwhile.


Ellie

Eleanor McHugh
Games With Brains
http://slides.games-with-brains.net
----
raise ArgumentError unless @reality.responds_to? :reason
Ff9e18f0699bf079f1fc91c8d4506438?d=identicon&s=25 James Britt (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 20:17
(Received via mailing list)
Roger Pack wrote:
>> We are seeing a lot or release announcements among the regular posts
>> these days, taking up a larger and larger percentage of total posts.
>> Perhaps if we have a separate list for them then:
>
> +1
> I always wish I could subscribe to just the announcements [more than the
> rubyforge RSS, which for some reason doesn't get them all] because
> subscribing to ruby-talk is too much traffic and I'm too lazy to setup a
> filter in my gmail.  Barrier to entry.  Maybe bring it up to the core
> fellas?

http://vuxu.org/~chris/ruby-talk-ann.rss




--
James Britt

www.jamesbritt.com           - Playing with Better Toys
www.ruby-doc.org             - Ruby Help & Documentation
www.rubystuff.com            - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
www.neurogami.com            - Smart application development
58479f76374a3ba3c69b9804163f39f4?d=identicon&s=25 Eric Hodel (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 20:52
(Received via mailing list)
On Jun 24, 2009, at 09:44, Roger Pack wrote:

> filter in my gmail.  Barrier to entry.  Maybe bring it up to the core
> fellas?


Are you subscribed to:

http://gems.rubyforge.org/index.rss

However, a significant fraction of gem authors forget to put
description in their gems, so the feed is not as useful as it should be.
B1b1d33e0655e841d4fd8467359c58d0?d=identicon&s=25 Yossef Mendelssohn (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 21:22
(Received via mailing list)
On Jun 24, 11:44 am, Roger Pack <rogerpack2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> subscribing to ruby-talk is too much traffic and I'm too lazy to setup a
> filter in my gmail.  Barrier to entry.

Considering it should take you less than 30 seconds to make a gmail
filter, my suggestion to you is "become less lazy".

Look, I'll help you out:

    Matches: to:(ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org)
    Do this: Skip Inbox, Apply label "ruby-talk"
703fbc991fd63e0e1db54dca9ea31b53?d=identicon&s=25 Robert Dober (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 22:07
(Received via mailing list)
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Yossef Mendelssohn<ymendel@pobox.com>
wrote:
> On Jun 24, 11:44 am, Roger Pack <rogerpack2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> subscribing to ruby-talk is too much traffic and I'm too lazy to setup a
>> filter in my gmail.  Barrier to entry.
>
> Considering it should take you less than 30 seconds to make a gmail
> filter, my suggestion to you is "become less lazy".
I have enough of them,
I do not want other announcements to go to the release label and there
are other issues that have been discussed.
I can happily live with the majority being against Tom's idea, but I
feel that the "c'on use a label" or your friendly "be less lazy", ty
very much ;), simply does not Tom's idea the thinking and credit it
deserves.

>
> Look, I'll help you out:
>
>    Matches: to:(ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org)
>    Do this: Skip Inbox, Apply label "ruby-talk"
At least you could have got it right....

Robert
31e038e4e9330f6c75ccfd1fca8010ee?d=identicon&s=25 Gregory Brown (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 22:13
(Received via mailing list)
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Robert Dober<robert.dober@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I can happily live with the majority being against Tom's idea, but I
> feel that the "c'on use a label" or your friendly "be less lazy", ty
> very much ;), simply does not Tom's idea the thinking and credit it
> deserves.

Man, I really wish there was a parallel universe where you and Trans
could be happy with how things are going, so that we don't need to go
through the same cycle of:

Trans:  I want thing Foo
Rest of RubyTalk: This has come up many times before, and here's what
happened
Robert: Hey come on, don't be hard on Trans.

I'm really not trying to be rude here, the archive shows this pattern
clearly, and I think it's problematic.

-greg
703fbc991fd63e0e1db54dca9ea31b53?d=identicon&s=25 Robert Dober (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 22:32
(Received via mailing list)
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:12 PM, Gregory
Brown<gregory.t.brown@gmail.com> wrote:
>> are other issues that have been discussed.
> Rest of RubyTalk: This has come up many times before, and here's what happened
> Robert: Hey come on, don't be hard on Trans.
>
> I'm really not trying to be rude here, the archive shows this pattern
> clearly, and I think it's problematic.
I agree, maybe someone can point me to a good therapist.
Robert
5a837592409354297424994e8d62f722?d=identicon&s=25 Ryan Davis (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 22:46
(Received via mailing list)
On Jun 24, 2009, at 13:12 , Gregory Brown wrote:

> clearly, and I think it's problematic.
I love you so much.
Be30361bb0b0c495e3077db43ad84b56?d=identicon&s=25 Aaron Patterson (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 22:47
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 05:12:16AM +0900, Gregory Brown wrote:
> > are other issues that have been discussed.
> > I can happily live with the majority being against Tom's idea, but I
> > feel that the "c'on use a label" or your friendly "be less lazy", ty
> > very much ;), simply does not Tom's idea the thinking and credit it
> > deserves.
>
> Man, I really wish there was a parallel universe where you and Trans
> could be happy with how things are going, so that we don't need to go
> through the same cycle of:

loop do

> Trans:  I want thing Foo
> Rest of RubyTalk: This has come up many times before, and here's what happened
> Robert: Hey come on, don't be hard on Trans.

  sleep rand(100)

end
703fbc991fd63e0e1db54dca9ea31b53?d=identicon&s=25 Robert Dober (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 22:51
(Received via mailing list)
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Aaron
Patterson<aaron@tenderlovemaking.com> wrote:

>  sleep rand(100)
100, are you mad, much too long
C237cf537a06b60921c97804679e3b15?d=identicon&s=25 John Barnette (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 23:03
(Received via mailing list)
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Gregory
Brown<gregory.t.brown@gmail.com> wrote:
> Man, I really wish there was a parallel universe where you and Trans
> could be happy with how things are going, so that we don't need to go
> through the same cycle of:
>
> Trans:  I want thing Foo
> Rest of RubyTalk: This has come up many times before, and here's what happened
> Robert: Hey come on, don't be hard on Trans.
>
> I'm really not trying to be rude here, the archive shows this pattern
> clearly, and I think it's problematic.

Greg, you're my hero.


~ j.
2f55791ab9018b4d01fb741fab21843d?d=identicon&s=25 Tony Arcieri (Guest)
on 2009-06-24 23:58
(Received via mailing list)
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 3:06 AM, Trans <transfire@gmail.com> wrote:

> We are seeing a lot or release announcements among the regular posts
> these days, taking up a larger and larger percentage of total posts.
> Perhaps if we have a separate list for them then:
>
> 1) ruby-talk itself would improve
>

I came to ruby-talk to make a release announcement, and stayed for the
conversation.

If there were just a release announcements list separate from ruby-talk,
I
probably wouldn't be here.
87ef5d1e14b148eb596433bc17ffe690?d=identicon&s=25 lith (Guest)
on 2009-06-25 06:48
(Received via mailing list)
> If there were just a release announcements list separate from ruby-talk, I
> probably wouldn't be here.

IMHO most discussions related to announcements begin like "Sounds
great but I cannot get it to work" or "Great stuff. How does this
compare to X?" IMHO such discussions could be allowed on a not so
strict announcement-focused list.

Anyway, as somebody has said it before, if such a list isn't an
official ruby-lang list, only few people will read it, and people will
continue posting announcements to ruby-talk anyway.
45196398e9685000d195ec626d477f0e?d=identicon&s=25 Thomas Sawyer (7rans)
on 2009-06-25 08:29
(Received via mailing list)
On Jun 24, 4:12 pm, Gregory Brown <gregory.t.br...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Man, I really wish there was a parallel universe where you and Trans
> could be happy with how things are going, so that we don't need to go
> through the same cycle of:
>
> Trans:  I want thing Foo
> Rest of RubyTalk: This has come up many times before, and here's what happened
> Robert: Hey come on, don't be hard on Trans.
>
> I'm really not trying to be rude here, the archive shows this pattern
> clearly, and I think it's problematic.

That's absolutely laughable. The real pattern here is: Trans earnestly
asks if Foo would be a good idea, and then "the gang" devolves the
conversation into a Trans bash. Heaven help anyone else who might
agree, even a smidgen, with Trans, like poor Robert here.

The whole situation has become intolerable. It's so bad that I have to
tell people, when I submit a patch or otherwise help with someone
else's code, not to mention me with regards to it for fear that
they're project might get tainted by the slander of Ryan and friend's
for having any association with me.

I even went to RubyConf once, but had to turn around and leave b/c I
have felt so eviscerated in this public forum --I could not stomach
the thought that the same might happen in person.

The fact is, your guy's behavior is ignorant, overtly rude,
disingenuous, condescending, cliquish and childish. You are simply
bullies. You do not earnestly engage in conversation. In this very
thread there were points made that none of you ever addressed, and
instead simply repeated the same broken argument --before devolving
into your usual public circle jerk.

It is untenable. And I have had enough. It is no longer important
enough to me to put up with it. So I am exiting --stage left. It
greatly saddens me to do so as some of my projects were, after such a
great deal of time and work, reaching a level of solidity that I was
looking forward to sharing them with a broader audience. But who
really cares right? You'd rather I be in a parallel universe.

I don't need to go on any further. Other's have said it all before.

  What Zed said [http://www.zedshaw.com/rants/rails_is_a_ghetto.html].

quaclass,
T.
289cf19aa581c445915c072bf45c5e25?d=identicon&s=25 Todd Benson (Guest)
on 2009-06-25 21:53
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 1:28 AM, trans<transfire@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Robert: Hey come on, don't be hard on Trans.
> tell people, when I submit a patch or otherwise help with someone
> bullies. You do not earnestly engage in conversation. In this very
>
> I don't need to go on any further. Other's have said it all before.
>
>  What Zed said [http://www.zedshaw.com/rants/rails_is_a_ghetto.html].

The thing though, too though is, effectively attracting new and
interesting code from potentially great coders may be harder.  The
[ANN] allows this opportunity in a friendly way.

Now, on Trans' talk on pointing netiquette fingers is partly true, but
I've found this rather rare on this list.

I go through the mails visually, so I can see the timing of what's
going on and when. I sometimes get to see a correlation between
questions/answers and announcements.  I could write a script that does
the same.  But, it really is easier to either set up a filter
(something that I will never do, because I might miss something really
fascinating) or just comb through on a regular basis.  Honestly, it
takes me about 10 minutes to manually pick through them if I do it
every day, and another 30 if I want to follow the good conversations.

I guess it comes down to how granular you want it.  I could suggest,
for example, the crazy proposition that people have different mail
addresses for different lists, but I'm sure I'd be laughed at ;)

I'm on the fence.

Todd
Bec38d63650c8912b6ba9b557fb953b9?d=identicon&s=25 Roger Pack (rogerdpack)
on 2009-12-10 14:33
>> I always wish I could subscribe to just the announcements [more than the
>> rubyforge RSS, which for some reason doesn't get them all] because
>> subscribing to ruby-talk is too much traffic and I'm too lazy to setup a
>> filter in my gmail.  Barrier to entry.  Maybe bring it up to the core
>> fellas?
>
> http://vuxu.org/~chris/ruby-talk-ann.rss

Hmm. Is that available in mailing list form at all?
-r
A108cc9ea5d43d1ed6b53c13b888dc12?d=identicon&s=25 Schalk Neethling (Guest)
on 2009-12-10 14:40
(Received via mailing list)
Have a look at releases.ossreleasefeed.com/ There is currently an issue
with the hash tags but once sorted, soon, you can simply follow the RSS
feed for the hash ruby for example.

Let me know if anyone wants to get involved in improving the current
framework for release/announcement specific usage.

Kind Regards,
Schalk
A18d75bcb4dc90c5944e48aa3ef7441a?d=identicon&s=25 Michel Martens (Guest)
on 2009-12-10 14:41
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 10:33 AM, Roger Pack <rogerpack2005@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>> I always wish I could subscribe to just the announcements [more than the
>>> rubyforge RSS, which for some reason doesn't get them all] because
>>> subscribing to ruby-talk is too much traffic and I'm too lazy to setup a
>>> filter in my gmail.  Barrier to entry.  Maybe bring it up to the core
>>> fellas?
>>
>> http://vuxu.org/~chris/ruby-talk-ann.rss
>
> Hmm. Is that available in mailing list form at all?
> -r

You can subscribe to ruby-talk and set up a filter to keep only the
[ANN] emails.
Bec38d63650c8912b6ba9b557fb953b9?d=identicon&s=25 Roger Pack (rogerdpack)
on 2009-12-27 02:09
>> http://vuxu.org/~chris/ruby-talk-ann.rss
>
> Hmm. Is that available in mailing list form at all?

Not finding exactly what I wanted anywhere, I went ahead and created
this group

http://groups.google.com/group/ruby-talk-announce

which is just messages filtered from ruby-talk that has the word "ann"
or "rel" in their subject.

Feel free to subscribe if it satisfies anybody else's itch.  It did mine
:)
-r
Ff9e18f0699bf079f1fc91c8d4506438?d=identicon&s=25 James Britt (Guest)
on 2009-12-27 04:04
(Received via mailing list)
Roger Pack wrote:
>>> http://vuxu.org/~chris/ruby-talk-ann.rss
>> Hmm. Is that available in mailing list form at all?
>
> Not finding exactly what I wanted anywhere, I went ahead and created
> this group
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/ruby-talk-announce
>
> which is just messages filtered from ruby-talk that has the word "ann"
> or "rel" in their subject.

Now if only people made a point of announcing things on ruby-talk,
instead of only on twitter or their own blog.

For example, I believe that fewer than half of the Ruby conferences held
this year were announced on this list.

--
James Britt

www.jamesbritt.com           - Playing with Better Toys
www.ruby-doc.org             - Ruby Help & Documentation
www.rubystuff.com            - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
www.neurogami.com            - Smart application development
This topic is locked and can not be replied to.