Forum: Ruby One-Click Ruby Installer needs a new home, can you help him?

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E7cff3cfd41c495e1012227d7dc24202?d=identicon&s=25 Luis Lavena (luislavena)
on 2009-05-19 05:46
(Received via mailing list)
Original posted on my blog:

http://blog.mmediasys.com/2009/05/19/rubyinstaller...

===

I must say that my skills to ask for something are really lacking, and
my design skills are even worse.

So, I’m bringing this topic to the table, seeking for ideas on how to
improve the Ruby on Windows image beyond just code.

I’m willing to offer money to pay for it, since I’m quite aware that
Open Source and contributions don’t put food on the table.

Of course, I’m not rich, so the balance needs to be found :D

So, what is the idea:

    * Build the website with Radiant or a simple CMS over Ruby
    * Design needs to be simple and provide access to:
         1. News feed (small articles)
         2. Download info and links
         3. Getting Started Resources (info and links)
         4. Contribute (RubyForge and GitHub info)
         5. Support (access to mailing list and forums of interest)
    * Initial artwork (logo and iso) already exist
    * Application icons can be highly improved :D

For the record: there is no need to be a Windows user or designer, so
people on Linux and OSX are welcome ;)

If there is more interest, maybe a Bounty can be opened, but time,
feedback and community response will tell.

Please, comment and pass the message!
F889bf17449ffbf62345d2b2d316a937?d=identicon&s=25 Michal Suchanek (Guest)
on 2009-05-19 09:32
(Received via mailing list)
2009/5/19 Luis Lavena <luislavena@gmail.com>:
> Original posted on my blog:
>
> 
http://blog.mmediasys.com/2009/05/19/rubyinstaller...
>
> ===
>
> I must say that my skills to ask for something are really lacking, and

Indeed, it's not clear what you are asking ;-)

> So, what is the idea:
>
>    * Build the website with Radiant or a simple CMS over Ruby

Building a web site is one thing but running it is another.
Do you already have some hosting, or are you seeking a complete
solution?
If you do have one what are the features it provides, or what do you
expect from the new one?

>    * Design needs to be simple and provide access to:
>         1. News feed (small articles)
>         2. Download info and links
>         3. Getting Started Resources (info and links)
>         4. Contribute (RubyForge and GitHub info)
>         5. Support (access to mailing list and forums of interest)

Here it seems that aside the news articles everything else is hosted
off the website, and only interface for picking articles on these
topics is needed.

>    * Initial artwork (logo and iso) already exist
>    * Application icons can be highly improved :D

This is not related to the web site, is it?


Thanks

Michal
E7cff3cfd41c495e1012227d7dc24202?d=identicon&s=25 Luis Lavena (luislavena)
on 2009-05-19 14:55
(Received via mailing list)
On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 4:32 AM, Michal Suchanek <hramrach@centrum.cz>
wrote:
>
Thank you, thank you, I do my best.

>> So, what is the idea:
>>
>>    * Build the website with Radiant or a simple CMS over Ruby
>
> Building a web site is one thing but running it is another.

I'm going to take care of the hosting.

> Do you already have some hosting, or are you seeking a complete solution?

Well, again hosting is going to be out of my pocket too, so if a
generous company thinks that One-Click Ruby Installer deserves a
homepage and they could host it, will be awesome, but I'm not holding
my breath.

> If you do have one what are the features it provides, or what do you
> expect from the new one?
>

Well, the Wiki is unattractive, and hard to maintain. Doing gardering
on the wiki takes longer, even with the help of some contributors in
the past.

The website idea is offer, clean and simple a door to Ruby on Windows
resources, which is often hard to find, mostly due lack of integration
or growth on ruby-lang to hold this different things.


>
Like a Wiki :-)

>>    * Initial artwork (logo and iso) already exist
>>    * Application icons can be highly improved :D
>
> This is not related to the web site, is it?
>

Well, the logo is, the favicon is :-)

>
> Thanks
>

Thanks to you!

Cheers,
F889bf17449ffbf62345d2b2d316a937?d=identicon&s=25 Michal Suchanek (Guest)
on 2009-05-19 16:25
(Received via mailing list)
2009/5/19 Luis Lavena <luislavena@gmail.com>:
> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 4:32 AM, Michal Suchanek <hramrach@centrum.cz> wrote:
>> 2009/5/19 Luis Lavena <luislavena@gmail.com>:
...
>>>    * Build the website with Radiant or a simple CMS over Ruby
> my breath.
I think that hosting a web site (as opposed a download site) is not
completely out of question.

However, it is necessary to know what kind of hosting is required.

Still if you hosted the site yourself it would be sort of reassuring
to know that as long as the the installer is going forward the site is
likely to stay, too.

> resources, which is often hard to find, mostly due lack of integration
>> Here it seems that aside the news articles everything else is hosted
>> off the website, and only interface for picking articles on these
>> topics is needed.
>>
>
> Like a Wiki :-)

No, unlike a Wiki.

There are a couple of differences between a wiki and a newsfeed.

First, only few authorized people can typically post news articles on
a news site but next to anybody can improve or spam a Wiki.

Second, a wiki is an unorganized cloud of random (des)information bits
while a news site is more structured. It has typically articles sorted
by time and category with some reasonable selection shown on the top
page. Any attempts to force categorization on Wikis I have seen so far
proved futile.

I imagine it is possible to turn commit messages and release notes for
downloads into news articles automatically if they are hosted on a
reasonably cooperative site.

A script could easily select the newest article from each important
category to create a clean and simple top page that offers all
important information in one place.

>
>>>    * Initial artwork (logo and iso) already exist
>>>    * Application icons can be highly improved :D
>>
>> This is not related to the web site, is it?
>>
>
> Well, the logo is, the favicon is :-)
>

Perhaps I got too distracted by the application icon :-)

Thanks

Michal
2a2ef2adb5f48cfec60ba3c3b381eead?d=identicon&s=25 Peter Zotov (Guest)
on 2009-05-19 18:59
(Received via mailing list)
Luis Lavena wrote:
> improve the Ruby on Windows image beyond just code.
>          1. News feed (small articles)
> If there is more interest, maybe a Bounty can be opened, but time,
> feedback and community response will tell.
>
> Please, comment and pass the message!

If you need, I can host that site when it will be finished. For free, of
course!
E7cff3cfd41c495e1012227d7dc24202?d=identicon&s=25 Luis Lavena (luislavena)
on 2009-05-20 01:19
(Received via mailing list)
On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Michal Suchanek <hramrach@centrum.cz>
wrote:
>
Well, I believe the hosting part of the equation is not a problem.
Downloads are going to be located as usual at RubyForge.

The intention of this is not replace RubyForge for bug reporting or
downloads, but provide a better, simplified and clean access to Ruby
for Windows, which ruby-lang is not offering and neither RubyForge or
the current Wiki page.

> However, it is necessary to know what kind of hosting is required.
>

I mention the development of the site in Radiant CMS or a Ruby CMS, so
the hosting is going to be Ruby/Rails based.

> Still if you hosted the site yourself it would be sort of reassuring
> to know that as long as the the installer is going forward the site is
> likely to stay, too.
>

Well, that's what I said, I intend to host myself. Also, I intend to
contribute with my personal money for the design of it.

>>
>> Like a Wiki :-)
>
> No, unlike a Wiki.
>

Well, I tried to be ironic, but I meant to say more as Knowledge Base
containing links to the different resources in the different
categories: from compiling to using Ruby in different scenarios
(either on Windows or deploys from it to Linux).

> ...
>
> I imagine it is possible to turn commit messages and release notes for
> downloads into news articles automatically if they are hosted on a
> reasonably cooperative site.
>

Manual administration is not going to be a problem, being the central
location of all this will make things more easy.

> A script could easily select the newest article from each important
> category to create a clean and simple top page that offers all
> important information in one place.
>

Which basically Radiant can do it with some Ruby magic.

>
> Perhaps I got too distracted by the application icon :-)
>

Sorry :-)

So, in better words I think I going to run this as a
Bounty/Contest/Challenge:

I'm going to open a Pledgie, and put some money there. This means the
designers that want to participate will need to be able to collect
money using Paypal.

Next, Designers can create mockups of the homepage, and use "as
inspiration" the logo/branding for the installer that already exist:

http://blog.mmediasys.com/2008/03/29/progress-of-o...

Important things the site needs to allow:

* Simple, clean, friendly design.
* Latest news about releases.
* Latest version information
* Latest Links added to the Knowledge Base
* Access to Download information pages
* Access to Knowledge Base pages
* Access to Get Help pages
* Access to Contribute information pages

Advance details:

* Download information will contain both 1.8 and 1.9 latest downloads.
* Prior download can be accessed via RubyForge
* Knowledge Base pages are small descriptions and links to the source
of the information, either a blog, a wiki or a screencast being hosted
elsewhere.
* Get Help pages are going to summarize mailing list or groups where
users will likely get more feedback about their issues running Ruby on
Windows.
* Contribute will provide links and information to access RubyForge or
GitHub and what are the requirements to help on the project.

Mockups are going to be open to the wild as a poll, and people will pick
them.

Pledgie will remain active until deadline of the poll.

Once the poll deadline has reached, the best mockup which follows the
above criteria is going to be selected as "winner", which leads us to
the next point:

Before any designer do the mock up, they need to consider:

* Once design is approved, both hompages and inner page needs to be
completed as valid HTML+CSS
* Cross browser (yeah, IE, I'm talking about that beast) needs to be
considered as supported.
* Designer could have experience integrating this with Radiant and
provide advice, but is not mandatory.
* Full pledgie money is going to be paid when HTML and CSS elements
are handed over to RubyInstaller project team, in public, using a Git
repository.
* Credits and copyright of the design will remains in the design
owner, but he must give authorization for usage in rubyinstaller.org.

I want this be the most clean, clear and public as possible. I want
community choose what community likes, not what my personal taste
dictates.

All the money collected up to the date of the poll is going to be
transfered, so is a risk, could be 100 or could be 2K, community will
decide.

Sounds good? I'm going to take this copy and use for the pledgie ;-)

Cheers,
F889bf17449ffbf62345d2b2d316a937?d=identicon&s=25 Michal Suchanek (Guest)
on 2009-05-21 11:34
(Received via mailing list)
2009/5/20 Luis Lavena <luislavena@gmail.com>:

> http://blog.mmediasys.com/2008/03/29/progress-of-o...
I think asking for mockups is the wrong thing to do. I am not sure a
good tool for eveluating future web design exists but to me it looks
like mockups are not the tool.

There is a disturbing tendency to design web pages as flyers and then
forcing the flyer into HTML without regard to web functionality.

Don't get me wrong. I know that good colour balance is also part of
functionality. However, adding right style to a working web is
relatively easy due to CSS but making a good looking web usable tends
to be very challenging. Often the desire to make the page look like
the flyer on which it is based sacrifices much in the functionality,
ease of use and compatibility departments.

There are probably some designers that are somewhat aware that the web
has its specifics but judging from the state of  pages I visit there
are very few who actually understand the web.

Thanks

Michal
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