Forum: Ruby On the Niceties of Asking For what You Want (was Re: Want some information....)

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8f6f95c4bd64d5f10dfddfdcd03c19d6?d=identicon&s=25 Rick Denatale (rdenatale)
on 2009-05-12 15:20
(Received via mailing list)
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 8:59 AM, Robert Klemme
<shortcutter@googlemail.com> wrote:
> 2009/5/12 Arun Kumar <arunkumar@innovaturelabs.com>:
>>   I want to know about authentication in ruby. Is it possible to scrap
>> html of those sites which require basic authentication.
>
> I am not a native speaker but for all I know "want" is considered
> impolite among English speaking people.

I wouldn't say so.  To want carries the same basic connotation as
vouloir in French, I don't know that  je veut, or je voudrais is more
impolite than say j'aimerais and I'd think that the average native
English speaker would consider both I want, or I would like to be
socially acceptable expressions of a desire for something.

If we are talking about faux amis, one of the tricky French-English
ones is demander, which translates properly in English to "to ask"
whereas do demand in English means something more like exiger in
French, and would probably be perceived as a step up the rudeness
scale.

--
Rick DeNatale

Blog: http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/RickDeNatale
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LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rickdenatale
Fa2521c6539342333de9f42502657e5a?d=identicon&s=25 Eleanor McHugh (Guest)
on 2009-05-12 16:22
(Received via mailing list)
On 12 May 2009, at 14:19, Rick DeNatale wrote:
> I wouldn't say so.  To want carries the same basic connotation as
> vouloir in French, I don't know that  je veut, or je voudrais is more
> impolite than say j'aimerais and I'd think that the average native
> English speaker would consider both I want, or I would like to be
> socially acceptable expressions of a desire for something.

I can only speak from a British perspective, but 'want' does sound
slightly too demanding compared to 'need' or 'like' in this context. A
more natural (and oblique) phrasing would be along the lines of 'I was
wondering if anyone knows how to handle authentication in Ruby?" which
cares much less of an emotional subtext than the more direct approach.

> If we are talking about faux amis, one of the tricky French-English
> ones is demander, which translates properly in English to "to ask"
> whereas do demand in English means something more like exiger in
> French, and would probably be perceived as a step up the rudeness
> scale.

The only people in England who routinely use 'demand' tend to be very
disgruntled retired army officers and the representatives of trade
unions ;)


Ellie

Eleanor McHugh
Games With Brains
http://slides.games-with-brains.net
----
raise ArgumentError unless @reality.responds_to? :reason
8f6f95c4bd64d5f10dfddfdcd03c19d6?d=identicon&s=25 Rick Denatale (rdenatale)
on 2009-05-12 17:48
(Received via mailing list)
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Eleanor McHugh
<eleanor@games-with-brains.com> wrote:
>>> I am not a native speaker but for all I know "want" is considered
> (and oblique) phrasing would be along the lines of 'I was wondering if
> anyone knows how to handle authentication in Ruby?" which cares much less of
> an emotional subtext than the more direct approach.

Fair enough, but may have the temerity to suggest that civility would
best be preserved if we follow at least the part of Postel's law about
being liberal in what we accept, particularly in a 'place' frequented
by a mix of American's, Brit's, other native 'English' speakers, and
non-native speakers who have various ideas/knowledge of what's
proper/conservative to produce.

--
Rick DeNatale

Blog: http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/RickDeNatale
WWR: http://www.workingwithrails.com/person/9021-rick-denatale
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rickdenatale
Fa2521c6539342333de9f42502657e5a?d=identicon&s=25 Eleanor McHugh (Guest)
on 2009-05-12 18:26
(Received via mailing list)
On 12 May 2009, at 16:47, Rick DeNatale wrote:
>> an emotional subtext than the more direct approach.
>
> Fair enough, but may have the temerity to suggest that civility would
> best be preserved if we follow at least the part of Postel's law about
> being liberal in what we accept, particularly in a 'place' frequented
> by a mix of American's, Brit's, other native 'English' speakers, and
> non-native speakers who have various ideas/knowledge of what's
> proper/conservative to produce.

Oh definitely.


Ellie

Eleanor McHugh
Games With Brains
http://slides.games-with-brains.net
----
raise ArgumentError unless @reality.responds_to? :reason
1e736afdcdfe0753d67a81d449aca590?d=identicon&s=25 Srijayanth Sridhar (Guest)
on 2009-05-12 18:54
(Received via mailing list)
I wonder how much of this discussion is colored by the poster's history
:)

Jayanth

On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 9:55 PM, Eleanor McHugh <
703fbc991fd63e0e1db54dca9ea31b53?d=identicon&s=25 Robert Dober (Guest)
on 2009-05-12 20:32
(Received via mailing list)
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Rick DeNatale <rick.denatale@gmail.com>
wrote:
> vouloir in French, I don't know that  je veut, or je voudrais is more
> impolite than say j'aimerais and I'd think that the average native
> English speaker would consider both I want, or I would like to be
> socially acceptable expressions of a desire for something.
Let us see, you just enter the boulangerie and are in front of a very
charming lady half your age, I really cannot imagine someone saying
"je veux", this is really inaceptable and I have never heard it.

"Je voudrais" is fine of course, "je souhaiterais" is very beautiful.
I was very shocked by "I want", but I am notoriously sensible (c.f.
Lazy Bastard thread).
And this is the real reason I am so picky with your French here, you
did *not* support me in that thread, any excuses ;)))

Seriously, it is very important to know for Rubiests how to get des
croissants, pains aux chocolat, brioches ou encore des chaussons
pommes... when in France ou au Québec (ou avez-vous d'autres
spécialités)
I guess I should start preparing dinner...
>
> If we are talking about faux amis, one of the tricky French-English
> ones is demander, which translates properly in English to "to ask"
> whereas do demand in English means something more like exiger in
> French, and would probably be perceived as a step up the rudeness
> scale.
Well as we are already OT here, I prefer true enemies aux faux amis ;).

Demander is very strong indeed, it is the police who "demande les
personnes de sortir". But always consider the context ;)

"Pourrais-je vous demander  un service, Madame."

Very polite indeed.

Cheers
Robert


>
> --
> Rick DeNatale
>
> Blog: http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/RickDeNatale
> WWR: http://www.workingwithrails.com/person/9021-rick-denatale
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rickdenatale
>
>



--
Si tu veux construire un bateau ...
Ne rassemble pas des hommes pour aller chercher du bois, préparer des
outils, répartir les tâches, alléger le travail… mais enseigne aux
gens la nostalgie de l’infini de la mer.

If you want to build a ship, don’t herd people together to collect
wood and don’t assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to
long for the endless immensity of the sea.
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