Forum: GNU Radio Maximum value of samples

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998dbc3ac73d5487c59c0ee0f5baeeb1?d=identicon&s=25 Sebastiaan Heunis (Guest)
on 2009-03-10 12:23
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Hi

Can anyone please suggest a setup that I can use to test the maximum
value of samples?  I know that we have 16bit signed values.  Looking
at the ADC interface on the USRP, we sign extend each 12-bit sample
and add 3 zeros to the right.  This should give us a maximum value of
16376 for samples?

I tried using a BasicRX daughterboard.  I have a function generator,
inputting a 20MHz, 10dBm signal into the db.  In my app I mix this
down to 100kHz using the cordic.  I also decimate by 16.  The PGA gain
is set to 20dB.  The FPGA build is the standard 2rx/2tx with hbf.  The
maximum sample value that I get with this is 8635, so I'm using about
half of the ADC's dynamic range.

Sebastiaan

--
Sebastiaan Heunis
Radar and Remote Sensing Group, University of Cape Town
Tel:  +27 83 305 5667
3d593de8acbe2510722af740d8668352?d=identicon&s=25 Firas Abbas (Guest)
on 2009-03-10 13:31
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Hi,

> From: Sebastiaan Heunis <sheunis@gmail.com>
>
> Can anyone please suggest a setup that I can use to test
> the maximum value of samples?
>
> Sebastiaan


The quickest way is to run grc, connect usrp to number sink and run the
graph.

Regards,

Firas
39cf6a1e5fe9a6486f87b749a72948d8?d=identicon&s=25 Karim El Defrawy (Guest)
on 2009-03-10 13:35
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Hi,
I am using a FLEX2400 transceiver daughterboard and was wondering what's
the minimum step size that I can use to set the center frequency.

I tried steps down to 500KHz and I could tell the difference between the
generated carrier frequency of a sine wave on an oscilloscope.

When I tried lower steps I was not able to see any difference in the
generated frequency.
Thanks,
Karim
Ad84973e0d95196c6e59bed61c3f349a?d=identicon&s=25 Don Ward (Guest)
on 2009-03-10 15:25
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Sebastiaan Heunis wrote:

> maximum sample value that I get with this is 8635, so I'm using about
> half of the ADC's dynamic range.

You also need to consider the inherent gain of the CORDIC algorithm
(approx.
1.647/2 in the USRP) and the effect of filtering out the negative
frequency
components of your signal.  Because of these, you can use the full
dynamic
range of the ADC and never see sample values close to 16376.  In fact,
at
10dBm input and 20dB PGA gain I expect your ADC is clipping.  Have you
looked at a plot of your recieved waveform?

-- Don W.
85ffd97bae0e78056e1d06312744d7d1?d=identicon&s=25 Markus Feldmann (Guest)
on 2009-03-10 17:26
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Firas Abbas schrieb:
> The quickest way is to run grc, connect usrp to number sink and run the graph.
>
I tried the Number Think, but does it show the current values or the
maximum values ?

I noticed that the values differ from the values shown in the FFT Plot.
How to interprete the values in the Number Sink ?

In the FFT-Plot it is used dBFS as i think.
Josh Blum:
"USRP values are signed 16 bit values, so ┬▒ 32768 range."

How can i compare the value from my FFT-Plot with this value ?

Regards Markus
745d8202ef5a58c1058d0e5395a78f9c?d=identicon&s=25 Eric Blossom (Guest)
on 2009-03-10 18:17
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On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 05:33:36AM +0100, Karim El Defrawy wrote:
> Karim
Which interface are you using to set the center frequency?

If you use the "tune" method, it adjusts both the VCO on the
daughterboard and the digital up/down converter giving a minimum step
size of about 0.01 Hz.

Eric
4252201ac30d6dd44d8090ce1070e35f?d=identicon&s=25 Josh Blum (Guest)
on 2009-03-10 19:41
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Markus Feldmann wrote:
>> The quickest way is to run grc, connect usrp to number sink and run
>> the graph.
>>
> I tried the Number Think, but does it show the current values or the
> maximum values ?
>

Numbersink updates slowly, its best used with signals that change
slowly, like the average, rms, some of the SNR probe blocks.

The scopesink will also show the current values.

> I noticed that the values differ from the values shown in the FFT Plot.
> How to interprete the values in the Number Sink ?
>

Thee FFT plot is in decibels, its all relative. So if your signal is
40dB above the noise floor in the fft plot, than you calculate SNR:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal-to-noise_ratio... and
life is good.

If you really want to know how many volts, how many dBm, how much is a
count, then you must calibrate your receiver. Feed a signal of known
amplitude into your receiver, look at the levels in scope and fft plot.

If it helps, this shows how the fft plot in dB is calculated from the
fft:
http://gnuradio.org/trac/browser/gnuradio/trunk/gn...

-Josh
998dbc3ac73d5487c59c0ee0f5baeeb1?d=identicon&s=25 Sebastiaan Heunis (Guest)
on 2009-03-10 20:03
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Don

> In fact, at
> 10dBm input and 20dB PGA gain I expect your ADC is clipping.  Have you
> looked at a plot of your recieved waveform?

I agree with you on this.  According to the ADC datasheet, we need a
2Vp-p signal at the ADC to utilise the full dynamic range.  One of the
graphs on the datasheet also shows that the input impedance of the
ADC, when the input signal is between 20MHz and 60MHz, varies between
220 and 230 ohms.

This means that anything above around 7dBm should cause the signal to
get clipped.  With input=10dBm and PGA gain = 20dB, I captured a
signal and plotted it in Matlab.  It's just a normal sine wave with
its peak around 8600.  No clipping, which is surely wrong?

I just need to figure out how efficiently the TVRx uses the dynamic
range of the ADC, so I want to compare the maximum sample value that I
get using the TVRx with the maximum possible sample value.

Thanks for the help.

Sebastiaan
85ffd97bae0e78056e1d06312744d7d1?d=identicon&s=25 Markus Feldmann (Guest)
on 2009-03-11 00:23
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Josh Blum schrieb:
>
> If it helps, this shows how the fft plot in dB is calculated from the
> fft:
> 
http://gnuradio.org/trac/browser/gnuradio/trunk/gn...
>
Thank you, :-)

i am not sure which solution is the best one, but there are 2 further
solutions i think.

The second is to set up the <ref_scale> in the FFT Plot and
the third is to set an offset in the Usrp Source i think.

But the last one i didn't see any example. Maybe the last one would
be the best ?

Regards Markus
85ffd97bae0e78056e1d06312744d7d1?d=identicon&s=25 Markus Feldmann (Guest)
on 2009-03-11 00:29
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Josh Blum schrieb:
>
> Thee FFT plot is in decibels, its all relative. So if your signal is
> 40dB above the noise floor in the fft plot, than you calculate SNR:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal-to-noise_ratio... and
> life is good.
I am not sure whether the Power of the Noise value will be measured ?
Because of the heavy changing noise floor.

Would it be better to calculate it or to measure the noise floor ?
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-noise.htm

Regards Markus
39cf6a1e5fe9a6486f87b749a72948d8?d=identicon&s=25 Karim El Defrawy (Guest)
on 2009-03-11 23:31
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> Which interface are you using to set the center frequency?

The "tune" method.


 > If you use the "tune" method, it adjusts both the VCO on the
 > daughterboard and the digital up/down converter giving a minimum step
 > size of about 0.01 Hz.

OK, thanks. That's good to know.
23272b99cdcd7420e24e90c1fde60538?d=identicon&s=25 Marco Bottino (Guest)
on 2009-03-18 15:05
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Hello,

I was doing some test with a 6Volts battery with the USRP in order to be
able to use my USRP outdoors.
(Sonnenschein A506/4.2 s http://www.sonnenschein.org/A500.htm)
Everything was fine when I unintentionally inverted the polarity of the
battery.
At the moment, connecting the power converter to the usrp, the led
doesn't blink anymore and the fan doesn't work too.
I'm really not familiar with the electronic so I don't know what can be
happened inverting the plus with the minus...
Is there any hope to bring back to life my USRP? Can the fuse have saved
the board?
Any help will be very happreciated.

Thank you,

Marco
745d8202ef5a58c1058d0e5395a78f9c?d=identicon&s=25 Eric Blossom (Guest)
on 2009-03-18 17:25
(Received via mailing list)
On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 10:04:27AM -0400, Marco Bottino wrote:
> happened inverting the plus with the minus...
> Is there any hope to bring back to life my USRP? Can the fuse have saved
> the board?
> Any help will be very happreciated.
>
> Thank you,
> Marco

The fuse might have saved it.  Try replacing it.  It's a 3 amp fuse,
size 0603.

Eric
23272b99cdcd7420e24e90c1fde60538?d=identicon&s=25 Marco Bottino (Guest)
on 2009-03-18 19:21
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Selon Eric Blossom <eb@comsec.com>:

> > I'm really not familiar with the electronic so I don't know what can be
>
> Eric
>

Ok, it should be fine...
Thank you,

Marco
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