Forum: Ruby Letter writing campaign to Jim

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Be30361bb0b0c495e3077db43ad84b56?d=identicon&s=25 Aaron Patterson (Guest)
on 2009-02-26 19:37
(Received via mailing list)
"Rake version 0.8.4 has been released!" is what you would be reading if
we can get Jim to release a new version of Rake.

We've all put up with this warning, long enough!

 /Library/Ruby/Gems/1.8/gems/rake-0.8.3/lib/rake/gempackagetask.rb:13:Warning:
 Gem::manage_gems is deprecated and will be removed on or after March
 2009.

It's time to take action by writing Jim, telling him how much you love
and use rake, and asking him to kindly release a new version!  I've
already <strike>forced</strike> asked everyone at Seattle.rb to send Jim
letters, but that isn't enough.  I need your help!

Once we send Jim enough letters, I'm sure he'll release a "warning free"
version of Rake!

I've posted more information, along with the address where you can reach
Jim on my blog:

  http://tenderlovemaking.com/2009/02/26/we-need-a-n...

Please help!  Together we can build a "warning free" future for our
children, and our children's children!
31e038e4e9330f6c75ccfd1fca8010ee?d=identicon&s=25 Gregory Brown (Guest)
on 2009-02-26 20:39
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Aaron Patterson
<aaron@tenderlovemaking.com> wrote:

> It's time to take action by writing Jim, telling him how much you love
> and use rake, and asking him to kindly release a new version!  I've
> already <strike>forced</strike> asked everyone at Seattle.rb to send Jim
> letters, but that isn't enough.  I need your help!

Hahahaha, that's awesome.

Letters are nice, but have you sent him a patch?

-greg
3b1756d05466b4a78afd9aea7bb845c2?d=identicon&s=25 Aaron Turner (Guest)
on 2009-02-26 21:51
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Gregory Brown
<gregory.t.brown@gmail.com> wrote:
> Letters are nice, but have you sent him a patch?
+1

Save a tree.  Write code.  It's ruby, not rocket science.

--
Aaron Turner
http://synfin.net/
http://tcpreplay.synfin.net/ - Pcap editing and replay tools for Unix &
Windows
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety,
deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
    -- Benjamin Franklin
31e038e4e9330f6c75ccfd1fca8010ee?d=identicon&s=25 Gregory Brown (Guest)
on 2009-02-26 22:00
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Aaron Turner <synfinatic@gmail.com>
wrote:
>> Hahahaha, that's awesome.
>>
>> Letters are nice, but have you sent him a patch?
>
> +1
>
> Save a tree.  Write code.  It's ruby, not rocket science.

FWIW, you can never be sure with Jim:
http://onestepback.org/index.cgi/Tech/Programming/...

-greg
Be30361bb0b0c495e3077db43ad84b56?d=identicon&s=25 Aaron Patterson (Guest)
on 2009-02-26 22:18
(Received via mailing list)
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 05:49:08AM +0900, Aaron Turner wrote:
> > Hahahaha, that's awesome.
> >
> > Letters are nice, but have you sent him a patch?
>
> +1
>
> Save a tree.  Write code.  It's ruby, not rocket science.

Jim has already fixed the problem.  It just isn't released yet:

 http://github.com/jimweirich/rake/commit/dd9c844de...
3b1756d05466b4a78afd9aea7bb845c2?d=identicon&s=25 Aaron Turner (Guest)
on 2009-02-26 23:12
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Aaron Patterson
<aaron@tenderlovemaking.com> wrote:
>> >
> 
 http://github.com/jimweirich/rake/commit/dd9c844de...
Wait.. this is all about FIVE LINES of code (really, 4 lines + 1
comment) and it's already committed to github?

*facepalm*

--
Aaron Turner
http://synfin.net/
http://tcpreplay.synfin.net/ - Pcap editing and replay tools for Unix &
Windows
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety,
deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
    -- Benjamin Franklin
83ca41657a99b65d99889abe712ba5e2?d=identicon&s=25 Jason Roelofs (Guest)
on 2009-02-26 23:22
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Aaron Turner <synfinatic@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>> >> already <strike>forced</strike> asked everyone at Seattle.rb to send Jim
>> Jim has already fixed the problem.  It just isn't released yet:
> Aaron Turner
> http://synfin.net/
> http://tcpreplay.synfin.net/ - Pcap editing and replay tools for Unix & Windows
> Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety,
> deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
>    -- Benjamin Franklin
>
>

I don't see what's so /facepalm about this. We need a new official
release. Or do you intend to have *everyone* reinstall rake via a gem
built from someone's fork on Github? I'd much prefer to simply upgrade
my current gem.

Jason
90a73d9875462aaa9fab2feffafbffe7?d=identicon&s=25 Ben Bleything (Guest)
on 2009-02-26 23:23
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Aaron Turner <synfinatic@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Wait.. this is all about FIVE LINES of code (really, 4 lines + 1
> comment) and it's already committed to github?
>
> *facepalm*

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make... yes it's already
committed, but it hasn't been released.  Until it's released (which
only Jim can do!), it remains broken for everyone who uses rake and
rubygems together.

Surely you're not suggesting that rake be forked and released (in
username-rake) form instead of being released properly by the
project's maintainer...?

Ben
31e038e4e9330f6c75ccfd1fca8010ee?d=identicon&s=25 Gregory Brown (Guest)
on 2009-02-26 23:44
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Aaron Patterson
<aaron@tenderlovemaking.com> wrote:

> Jim has already fixed the problem.  It just isn't released yet:
>
> 
 http://github.com/jimweirich/rake/commit/dd9c844de...

Ah... In that case, I better get out the fancy stationary then...

-greg
Be30361bb0b0c495e3077db43ad84b56?d=identicon&s=25 Aaron Patterson (Guest)
on 2009-02-27 00:16
(Received via mailing list)
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 07:43:16AM +0900, Gregory Brown wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Aaron Patterson
> <aaron@tenderlovemaking.com> wrote:
>
> > Jim has already fixed the problem.  It just isn't released yet:
> >
> > 
 http://github.com/jimweirich/rake/commit/dd9c844de...
>
> Ah... In that case, I better get out the fancy stationary then...

I recommend something with kittens.  Mine was a Geoduck because they
look weird and are native to the Puget Sound.
3b1756d05466b4a78afd9aea7bb845c2?d=identicon&s=25 Aaron Turner (Guest)
on 2009-02-27 02:33
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Ben Bleything <ben@bleything.net>
wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Aaron Turner <synfinatic@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Wait.. this is all about FIVE LINES of code (really, 4 lines + 1
>> comment) and it's already committed to github?
>>
>> *facepalm*
>
> I'm not sure what point you're trying to make... yes it's already
> committed, but it hasn't been released.  Until it's released (which
> only Jim can do!), it remains broken for everyone who uses rake and
> rubygems together.

According to the OP it's not broken, it's merely a warning of things
to come.  Please stop dumping gas on the fire.

> Surely you're not suggesting that rake be forked and released (in
> username-rake) form instead of being released properly by the
> project's maintainer...?

No, that would be asinine.

I am saying that clearly Jim is aware of the problem (he already
committed the fix right?) so why the public spectacle/fear-mongering
that the world is going to end unless Jim acts now?   Based on the OP
this sounded like a huge coding effort, not something any user could
fix in 30seconds if it actually bit them.

Basically this hit a pet peeve of mine how lately users of open source
software seem to becoming more and more demanding of developers.  Do
this NOW!  What's taking so long?  Hurry up!  Why won't you help me?
I don't care if you have a life, my project is a priority!

Anyways, I see Jim is going to have a release out soon.  I hope he
enjoys the letters.

--
Aaron Turner
http://synfin.net/
http://tcpreplay.synfin.net/ - Pcap editing and replay tools for Unix &
Windows
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety,
deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
    -- Benjamin Franklin
90a73d9875462aaa9fab2feffafbffe7?d=identicon&s=25 Ben Bleything (Guest)
on 2009-02-27 02:47
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Aaron Turner <synfinatic@gmail.com>
wrote:
> According to the OP it's not broken, it's merely a warning of things
> to come.  Please stop dumping gas on the fire.

From what I understand, that warning has been in place for quite some
time (I think Eric said 2 years?) and RubyGems is anxious to actually
remove what's been deprecated for all this time.  I do freely admit
that broken was the wrong word to use there :)

>> Surely you're not suggesting that rake be forked and released (in
>> username-rake) form instead of being released properly by the
>> project's maintainer...?
>
> No, that would be asinine.

I'm glad we agree!

> I am saying that clearly Jim is aware of the problem (he already
> committed the fix right?) so why the public spectacle/fear-mongering
> that the world is going to end unless Jim acts now?   Based on the OP
> this sounded like a huge coding effort, not something any user could
> fix in 30seconds if it actually bit them.

Did you read the blog post Aaron linked to in his original post
wherein he describes how the work is already done and he's just trying
to give Jim an incentive to release it?  Where's the fear-mongering?

> Basically this hit a pet peeve of mine how lately users of open source
> software seem to becoming more and more demanding of developers.  Do
> this NOW!  What's taking so long?  Hurry up!  Why won't you help me?
> I don't care if you have a life, my project is a priority!

I don't know the details, so Aaron can describe if he wants, but I
believe that this whole thing is sort of gentle ribbing among internet
e-friends.  I'm sorry that you're offended by it... I've met Jim a
number of times and a postcard campaign seems like exactly the kind of
thing he would enjoy.

Regardless, I guess my point is ultimately this: triggering a pet
peeve is not sufficient reason to dump on someone's idea, particularly
when it's not going to impact you in any way.  If you don't want to
participate, don't.  It would have been far more constructive to say
"hey, cut the guy some slack, maintaining projects is hard work" than
to be dismissive.

Ben
58479f76374a3ba3c69b9804163f39f4?d=identicon&s=25 Eric Hodel (Guest)
on 2009-02-27 02:52
(Received via mailing list)
On Feb 26, 2009, at 17:26, Aaron Turner wrote:

> Basically this hit a pet peeve of mine how lately users of open source
> software seem to becoming more and more demanding of developers.  Do
> this NOW!  What's taking so long?  Hurry up!  Why won't you help me?
> I don't care if you have a life, my project is a priority!

It seems you don't know our personal relationship with Jim.

> Anyways, I see Jim is going to have a release out soon.  I hope he
> enjoys the letters.

In jest, Jim said he wouldn't release Rake until he received enough
letters.  You're holding up Rake by not writing one.

Now get out your pen and stamps and start writing.
0c00d644de3b8bb2f655908c79af25a5?d=identicon&s=25 Matt Lawrence (Guest)
on 2009-02-27 03:18
(Received via mailing list)
On Fri, 27 Feb 2009, Eric Hodel wrote:

> In jest, Jim said he wouldn't release Rake until he received enough letters.
> You're holding up Rake by not writing one.
>
> Now get out your pen and stamps and start writing.

Stamps???  You mean I can't send it postage due?

-- Matt
It's not what I know that counts.
It's what I can remember in time to use.
3b1756d05466b4a78afd9aea7bb845c2?d=identicon&s=25 Aaron Turner (Guest)
on 2009-02-27 04:56
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Ben Bleything <ben@bleything.net>
wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Aaron Turner <synfinatic@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I am saying that clearly Jim is aware of the problem (he already
>> committed the fix right?) so why the public spectacle/fear-mongering
>> that the world is going to end unless Jim acts now?   Based on the OP
>> this sounded like a huge coding effort, not something any user could
>> fix in 30seconds if it actually bit them.
>
> Did you read the blog post Aaron linked to in his original post
> wherein he describes how the work is already done and he's just trying
> to give Jim an incentive to release it?  Where's the fear-mongering?

Honestly, my initial reaction came is based on Aaron's original email
and then the later realization this was all about removing 5 lines.
Rather then realizing the joke, it screamed "WTF?"

Looking back, and re-reading it a bit more carefully it would appear I
missed the tongue 'n cheek tone that Aaron intended.  Partly my fault
for not giving Aaron the benefit of a doubt.

The fear-mongering part was it's horribly broken and nobody can fix it
but Jim and clearly he's not doing anything bit (otherwise you
wouldn't need this campaign), which turned out to be a far cry from
the truth.

>> Basically this hit a pet peeve of mine how lately users of open source
>> software seem to becoming more and more demanding of developers.  Do
>> this NOW!  What's taking so long?  Hurry up!  Why won't you help me?
>> I don't care if you have a life, my project is a priority!
>
> I don't know the details, so Aaron can describe if he wants, but I
> believe that this whole thing is sort of gentle ribbing among internet
> e-friends.  I'm sorry that you're offended by it... I've met Jim a
> number of times and a postcard campaign seems like exactly the kind of
> thing he would enjoy.

After more info came to light, that would seem to be the case.  I
think part of the problem is not all the subscribers to this list is
"in" on the joke/Jim's idea of funny/cool.

> Regardless, I guess my point is ultimately this: triggering a pet
> peeve is not sufficient reason to dump on someone's idea, particularly
> when it's not going to impact you in any way.  If you don't want to
> participate, don't.  It would have been far more constructive to say
> "hey, cut the guy some slack, maintaining projects is hard work" than
> to be dismissive.

If you look back in the thread, I think it's fair to say that's about
where I started.   It wasn't until someone basically asked, "Well what
else are we supposed to do...  fork the code?" that things went
quickly down hill.

Anyways, apologies for over-reacting (my bad), but in the future I'd
suggest people remember that large public mailing lists like this
aren't always the best place to execute semi-inside jokes without
making things really crystal clear.  Eric mentioned that Jim suggested
such a letter campaign in jest, but somehow this info was missing from
the OP.

--
Aaron Turner
http://synfin.net/
http://tcpreplay.synfin.net/ - Pcap editing and replay tools for Unix &
Windows
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety,
deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
    -- Benjamin Franklin
B1b1d33e0655e841d4fd8467359c58d0?d=identicon&s=25 Yossef Mendelssohn (Guest)
on 2009-02-27 15:34
(Received via mailing list)
On Feb 26, 9:54 pm, Aaron Turner <synfina...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The fear-mongering part was it's horribly broken and nobody can fix it
> but Jim and clearly he's not doing anything bit (otherwise you
> wouldn't need this campaign), which turned out to be a far cry from
> the truth.

Nobody but Jim can fix it. Check out http://rubyforge.org/projects/rake/
and see the facts: one admin (Jim), one developer (Jim). Who else has
permission to add a new release?

And I'll reiterate here what I put on Aaron's blog:

A release is when you can type `gem install rake` and it Just Works.

`gem install anyusername-somegemname --source http://gems.github.com/`
is not a release. It's a way to see the status of a gem that's in
development.
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