Forum: Ruby GC and Threads

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4299e35bacef054df40583da2d51edea?d=identicon&s=25 James Gray (bbazzarrakk)
on 2009-02-10 23:53
(Received via mailing list)
I'm trying to prove two simple facts about how Ruby works:

* Ruby can GC a Thread that has run to completion if you no longer
have any references to it, even if the value() have never been collected
* Ruby cannot GC a running Thread, even if there are no references to it

Some new code I have relies on these truths.  Simple scripts I've
written seems to indicate they are accurate, but I would love to hear
from someone who knows these to be true, or untrue.

Thanks in advance for any information you can provide.

James Edward Gray II
4299e35bacef054df40583da2d51edea?d=identicon&s=25 James Gray (bbazzarrakk)
on 2009-02-11 00:00
(Received via mailing list)
On Feb 10, 2009, at 4:51 PM, James Gray wrote:

> I'm trying to prove two simple facts about how Ruby works:
>
> * Ruby can GC a Thread that has run to completion if you no longer
> have any references to it, even if the value() have never been
> collected
> * Ruby cannot GC a running Thread, even if there are no references
> to it

> Simple scripts I've written seems to indicate they are accurate…

Actually, this is difficult to judge.  For example, this script has
odd results on my machine.  The Thread count does drop, but not all
the way:

#!/usr/bin/env ruby -wKU

def show_thread_count
   count = 0
   ObjectSpace.each_object(Thread) { |obj| count += 1 }
   p count
end

show_thread_count

5.times do
   Thread.new do
     date = `sleep 1 && date`
   end
end

20.times do
   sleep 0.2

   3.times { GC.start }
   show_thread_count
end

__END__

Here's a pretty typical output, though it varies a little:

$ ruby testing_thread_gc.rb
1
6
6
6
6
3
3
3
3
3
3
3
3
3
3
3
3
3
3
3
3

Thoughts?

James Edward Gray II
47b1910084592eb77a032bc7d8d1a84e?d=identicon&s=25 Joel VanderWerf (Guest)
on 2009-02-11 00:53
(Received via mailing list)
James Gray wrote:
> def show_thread_count
>   count = 0
>   ObjectSpace.each_object(Thread) { |obj| count += 1 }
>   p count
> end

Btw, this is the same as

def show_thread_count
   p ObjectSpace.each_object(Thread) {}
end
1bc63d01bd3fcccc36fb030a62039352?d=identicon&s=25 David Masover (Guest)
on 2009-02-11 01:26
(Received via mailing list)
James Gray wrote:
> * Ruby can GC a Thread that has run to completion if you no longer
> have any references to it, even if the value() have never been collected

Not sure.

> * Ruby cannot GC a running Thread, even if there are no references to it

Unfortunately, this part is true, as Ruby has not solved the Halting
Problem.

It might be possible to collect a thread if you have very specific
knowledge about when it is no longer needed. The hack I've been playing
with lately is to have all access to the thread be through a specific
object or set of objects, and reap the thread in the finalizer(s) of
those object(s).

The part I haven't solved is circular references -- anything one thread
has a reference to can't be collected as long as that thread is running,
so if thread A knows about thread B, which also knows about thread A,
they will have to be manually cleaned, even if that knowledge is purely
through such proxy objects.

Oh -- the above rambling might make sense in context. I'm writing an
actor library. I can picture a state where a collection of actors should
be collected, as they're all out of messages and only referred to by
each other -- but while I theoretically should be able to write a
garbage collector for that, I can't figure out how to do it in Ruby
without at least writing a C extension.
4299e35bacef054df40583da2d51edea?d=identicon&s=25 James Gray (bbazzarrakk)
on 2009-02-11 01:56
(Received via mailing list)
On Feb 10, 2009, at 6:25 PM, David Masover wrote:

> James Gray wrote:
>> * Ruby can GC a Thread that has run to completion if you no longer
>> have any references to it, even if the value() have never been
>> collected
>
> Not sure.

It seems this is at least somewhat true.  See the script I posted
earlier in this thread for an example.  I would love to know why it
can't totally clear them in that example though.

>> * Ruby cannot GC a running Thread, even if there are no references
>> to it
>
> Unfortunately, this part is true, as Ruby has not solved the Halting
> Problem.

Well, it happens to help me in this case, so I'll call it a bonus.  :)

James Edward Gray II
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