Forum: Nitro The future of Nitro, Og and Raw

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Bf0504f185551cac57895df741836051?d=identicon&s=25 chris (Guest)
on 2008-10-23 17:41
(Received via mailing list)
Not sure who all is still listening but I have something to say.

  As Dan North said a while back.  Nitro is quite feature full and could
really use some time to settle in with some bug fixes and a really solid
release.  I may end up taking a stab at this.  Once I got some fixes
into
the Nitro and Raw dependancies and require statements.  A simple "nitro
hello;cd hello;nitro" works out of the box.  I also converted the entire
projects to "newgem" projects ( no offense intended ).  The rake build
tasks
in there are excellent and "rake local_deploy" works perfectly.  I have
not
touched Og, it seems to be pretty solid already.  (side note: I think Og
could stand on it's own two feet as well but if you want me to hold onto
it
for a while I will)

CHANGELOG:

Fixed Nitro and Raw gemspec dependancies
Fixed missing "require 'raw/controller'" in raw.rb
Replaced lib/facets.rb with a gemspec dependancy
Converted Nitro to a newgem project to capitalize on the rake tasks and
rubyforge integration
Converted Raw to a newgem project to capitalize on the rake tasks and
rubyforge integration

TODO:

I think I found some bugs in the admin part, which in my opinion is key
to
getting a new user's feet wet with nitro and og.  I'd like to fix those.
Massive build up of examples in the rdocs
Move good examples to the prototype site produced by "nitro
project_name"
Include more details in the actual prototype site code and startup files
like app.rb and config/debug.rb
I do not plan to move away from using the current unit testing.  However
I
will create new tests using rspec and rbehave.  They are not mutually
exclusive
Get "rake docs" working
Get "rake website_generate" working


  With your permission, Trans and George I'm talking to you, I'll put
some
more effort into this and see what I can come up with.  None of my
changes
will mess with the api, my entire goal is stability and usability.
After
presenting my initial work to you guys, we can decide where you want to
go
from there.

  Before I forget, Robert Mela, if your out there.  I'd love to get a
hold
of your cheatsheets for inclusion in the actual rdocs.  Looks like your
site
has been reclaimed by the domain goblins.

Hope to hear from you,
Chris Scheper
Fd8f09626613a93a79e2ae899f00a465?d=identicon&s=25 Dan North (Guest)
on 2008-10-23 21:10
(Received via mailing list)
Hi Chris.

I'm probably the last guy in the room - I promised to switch off the
lights
:)

Have you seen ramaze <http://ramaze.net>? It seems inspired by the same
values as nitro, and there is a lot of energy behind it at the moment. I
would check with trans and george whether your time might be better
spent
helping out with ramaze (which already considers og a first class ORM
along
with sequel, datamapper and activerecord).

Just a thought, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who wanted to see a
life
after rails :)

Cheers,
Dan


2008/10/23 chris <prpht9@gmail.com>
45196398e9685000d195ec626d477f0e?d=identicon&s=25 Thomas Sawyer (7rans)
on 2008-10-23 22:38
(Received via mailing list)
Hi Chris,

I'm still listening. After George went south on the project I haven't
had any real motivation to continue. But it's a real shame
considering. I think it would be great for you to pick up the torch
and run with it.

On Oct 23, 11:10 am, chris <prp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Not sure who all is still listening but I have something to say.
>
>   As Dan North said a while back.  Nitro is quite feature full and could
> really use some time to settle in with some bug fixes and a really solid
> release.  I may end up taking a stab at this.  Once I got some fixes into
> the Nitro and Raw dependancies and require statements.  A simple "nitro
> hello;cd hello;nitro" works out of the box.  I also converted the entire
> projects to "newgem" projects ( no offense intended ).

If it works for you, that's fine. Since I stopped working on Nitro I
recrafted my whole build suite anyway.

But how does newgem help except to build a gem?

>  The rake build tasks
> in there are excellent and "rake local_deploy" works perfectly.  I have not
> touched Og, it seems to be pretty solid already.  (side note: I think Og
> could stand on it's own two feet as well but if you want me to hold onto it
> for a while I will)

I separated Og into it's own project. See http://ogden.rubyforge.org.
There is a git repo. It is pretty much exactly what is in the current
Nitro repo. I figured splitting Og off on it's own was the first thing
to do in working toward a new stable release. Unfortunately the tests
were converted to RSpec just before all that (not by me), and they do
not fully pass and I have not been able to track down all the issues --
I wish we had the old unit tests instead.

The main plans I had for the future of Og were to make "enchanting"
explicit, and remove as much dynamic code injection as possible (there
is a lot of that in this lib). But a new solid release before all
that, at this point, would probably be best to help get a little fire
going under it.

> TODO:
>
> I think I found some bugs in the admin part, which in my opinion is key to
> getting a new user's feet wet with nitro and og.  I'd like to fix those.
> Massive build up of examples in the rdocs
> Move good examples to the prototype site produced by "nitro project_name"
> Include more details in the actual prototype site code and startup files
> like app.rb and config/debug.rb
> I do not plan to move away from using the current unit testing.  However I
> will create new tests using rspec and rbehave.  They are not mutually
> exclusive

Ultimately it's your call, but I'd prefer not going the rspec and
rbehave route. There are much more important things to do. If you want
to move toward BDD, using minitest's mini/spec (now included in Ruby
1.9, btw) or Shoulda would be a much easier, more tempered step in
that direction.

> Get "rake docs" working
> Get "rake website_generate" working
>
>   With your permission, Trans and George I'm talking to you, I'll put some
> more effort into this and see what I can come up with.  None of my changes
> will mess with the api, my entire goal is stability and usability.  After
> presenting my initial work to you guys, we can decide where you want to go
> from there.

That's more than considerate. Since the project has been down for the
count, I say, feel free to take her where you want. As you can tell
from my reply I'm still interested in seeing this project succeed and
am happy to help where as I can.

>   Before I forget, Robert Mela, if your out there.  I'd love to get a hold
> of your cheatsheets for inclusion in the actual rdocs.  Looks like your site
> has been reclaimed by the domain goblins.

T.
Ff9e18f0699bf079f1fc91c8d4506438?d=identicon&s=25 James Britt (Guest)
on 2008-10-24 00:00
(Received via mailing list)
Dan North wrote:
> Hi Chris.
>
> I'm probably the last guy in the room - I promised to switch off the lights
> :)
>
> Have you seen ramaze <http://ramaze.net>? It seems inspired by the same
> values as nitro, and there is a lot of energy behind it at the moment. I
> would check with trans and george whether your time might be better spent
> helping out with ramaze (which already considers og a first class ORM along
> with sequel, datamapper and activerecord).

While Ramaze is clearly based off ideas in Nitro (if not Nitro itself),
I don't think it has quite the same approach to pipelining
transformations and filtering.

It would be well worth looking at the essential differences between
Ramaze and Nitro and considering if effort is better spent in adding
Nitro aspects to Ramaze (either directly or as some sort of plugin).

If that's not feasible, then having Nitro spring back to life would be
quite cool.

>
> Just a thought, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who wanted to see a life
> after rails :)

There's always been life before, during, and after Rails.  Ruby has had
interesting Web development almost all along.  It just rarely got the
attention it deserved.

--
James Britt

www.happycamperstudios.com   - Wicked Cool Coding
www.jamesbritt.com           - Playing with Better Toys
www.ruby-doc.org             - Ruby Help & Documentation
www.rubystuff.com            - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
Bf0504f185551cac57895df741836051?d=identicon&s=25 chris (Guest)
on 2008-10-24 02:01
(Received via mailing list)
I looked at ramaze when first checking out nitro and my philosophy
seemed to
fit better with nitro.  But, I'll take another look.

I'll get into my philosophy and why I think nitro still has a better
shot at
becoming a world class framework later.  For now lets just keep our eyes
on
getting a stable release out with a much better set of easy to find and
working examples and docs.

Chris
Bf0504f185551cac57895df741836051?d=identicon&s=25 chris (Guest)
on 2008-10-24 02:11
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 4:37 PM, trans <transfire@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Chris,
>
> I'm still listening. After George went south on the project I haven't
> had any real motivation to continue. But it's a real shame
> considering. I think it would be great for you to pick up the torch
> and run with it.
>

We'll see what happens but I'm going to try.


>
> If it works for you, that's fine. Since I stopped working on Nitro I
> recrafted my whole build suite anyway.
>
> But how does newgem help except to build a gem?
>

It's not just the gem build it has direct rake tasks to upload a built
gem
directly to rubyforge and much more.  Rake is a tool I can't live
without.
I'm really surprised it wasn't used in the darcs repo source.


> There is a git repo. It is pretty much exactly what is in the current
> Nitro repo. I figured splitting Og off on it's own was the first thing
> to do in working toward a new stable release. Unfortunately the tests
> were converted to RSpec just before all that (not by me), and they do
> not fully pass and I have not been able to track down all the issues --
> I wish we had the old unit tests instead.
>

As I'm poking around I'll see what I can do about finding those tests
along
the way.


>
> The main plans I had for the future of Og were to make "enchanting"
> explicit, and remove as much dynamic code injection as possible (there
> is a lot of that in this lib). But a new solid release before all
> that, at this point, would probably be best to help get a little fire
> going under it.
>

Hopefully my time investment in nitro will help out the og movement as
well.  I still think it outshines activerecord by leaps and bounds.


> >
> I
> > will create new tests using rspec and rbehave.  They are not mutually
> > exclusive
>
> Ultimately it's your call, but I'd prefer not going the rspec and
> rbehave route. There are much more important things to do. If you want
> to move toward BDD, using minitest's mini/spec (now included in Ruby
> 1.9, btw) or Shoulda would be a much easier, more tempered step in
> that direction.
>

Going the rspec and rbehave route is something which I have proven to
myself
helps me write really solid code.  Not necessary, just what helps me
work
better.  I will definitely look into mini and shoulda, thanks for the
suggestions.


> > from there.
>
> That's more than considerate. Since the project has been down for the
> count, I say, feel free to take her where you want. As you can tell
> from my reply I'm still interested in seeing this project succeed and
> am happy to help where as I can.


Well, thank you for your support and I'll keep updating the mailing list
as
I go along.  I'll keep my requests for major effort on your part to an
minimum.  However getting access to rubyforge may be necessary in the
next
few weeks.
Bf0504f185551cac57895df741836051?d=identicon&s=25 chris (Guest)
on 2008-10-24 02:17
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 5:58 PM, James Britt <james.britt@gmail.com>
wrote:

>> would check with trans and george whether your time might be better spent
> and Nitro and considering if effort is better spent in adding Nitro aspects
> to Ramaze (either directly or as some sort of plugin).
>
> If that's not feasible, then having Nitro spring back to life would be
> quite cool.
>

The core mission of what I'm shooting for with nitro will be published
here
by the end of next week.  I will also be bringing in some short term
goals,
long term goals and a roadmap for nitro.  I hope this will clear up the
ramaze v/s nitro debate and/or create some discussion as to what options
we
have.  If ramaze meets up to what I'm looking for, maybe I will let
nitro go
back to sleep.


>
>
>> Just a thought, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who wanted to see a life
>> after rails :)
>>
>
> There's always been life before, during, and after Rails.  Ruby has had
> interesting Web development almost all along.  It just rarely got the
> attention it deserved
>
.
7a4e995e378ef66de0ceaea5e1381ee1?d=identicon&s=25 Georgios Moschovitis (Guest)
on 2008-10-24 07:55
(Received via mailing list)
Hello Chris,

nice to see a post on this list after all this time ;-)

I have no problem with your proposal, it's OK by me.

Btw, in the last few months I have created a brand new web (or should I
say
REST) framework for my own use. It's completely different to the old
Nitro
(and frameworks like Rails/Merb). I am trying to make it as simple and
standards compliant as possible. The plan is to eventually write some
docs
and release it as open source, but we 'll see about that. At the moment
the
server side logic is written in Ruby, but I am thinking about switching
to
server side javascript in the future. I am extremely pleased with what I
have so far ;-) ;-)

An early version of this framework powers my new blog: www.gmosx.com,
check
this out...

regards,
-g.
Bf0504f185551cac57895df741836051?d=identicon&s=25 chris (Guest)
on 2008-10-24 18:58
(Received via mailing list)
Excellent news.  Glad to see your still on here :)

I'll be sure to check it's out.

-Chris


On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 12:18 PM, Georgios Moschovitis <
Fd8f09626613a93a79e2ae899f00a465?d=identicon&s=25 Dan North (Guest)
on 2008-10-24 19:30
(Received via mailing list)
I'd be very keen to see a decent REST implementation in ruby.

Cheers,
Dan

2008/10/23 Georgios Moschovitis <george.moschovitis@gmail.com>
7a4e995e378ef66de0ceaea5e1381ee1?d=identicon&s=25 Georgios Moschovitis (Guest)
on 2008-10-24 20:03
(Received via mailing list)
I am extremely happy with what I have ;-)
But I want to try it out in a few more internal projects to make sure
the
design is valid.
But surely it is not for everyone.

-g.
Ff9e18f0699bf079f1fc91c8d4506438?d=identicon&s=25 James Britt (Guest)
on 2008-10-24 20:30
(Received via mailing list)
Dan North wrote:
> I'd be very keen to see a decent REST implementation in ruby.

Isn't that what the  Sinatra Web thing claims?

James
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