Forum: Ruby the result of Ruby official logo contest

0ec4920185b657a03edf01fff96b4e9b?d=identicon&s=25 Yukihiro Matsumoto (Guest)
on 2007-10-30 10:08
(Received via mailing list)
Hello All,

As a chairman of the recently formed Ruby Association LLC[1], I
happily announce the result of our Ruby official logo contest.

We received 203 logos from 103 people.  TLDs of their mail addresses
are .ac, .am, .as, .au, .biz, .com, .cx, .de, .dk, .edu, .es, .id,
.jp, .net, .org, .ru, .to, and .uk.

And the prize goes to Tom Schaub, from Lexington, Kentucky USA.  He
will receive a winner plate and 100,000 JPY (roughly 872 USD).   We
are now preparing a nice plate.

The selection criteria is following

 * avoid japonesque ones

   Even though Ruby is from Japan, and I am a Japanese, Ruby uses live
   all over the world.  Relying on single culture may not suitable for
   the world dominating language.

 * avoid cute ones

   In Japan, we have tradition to value cute things high.  But in
   worldwide, cute things are often considered immature.  I don't want
   Ruby to be considered juvenile.

 * avoid Rails related

   Ruby is far older than Rails, and perhaps will live longer than
   Rails.  Ruby on Rails rely on Ruby, not in reverse.

 * select Ruby (jewel) related

   Alter all, the top image of the language is Ruby jewel.  So I
   avoided rabbits, fairies, and other creatures.

In a process of selection, I strongly felt how good the previous one
was.  It's beautiful, simple and embodies the image of the language.
I belive the new one inherites those properties in spirit.  I really
appreciate the original designer, John Long.

I especially prefer the image part of the new logo, so we might use
the logo without "programming language" text.

              matz.
[1] http://www.ruby-assn.org/
[2] http://www.ruby-assn.org/logo-contest.html.ja
[2] http://www.ruby-assn.org/ruby-logo.jpg
0ec4920185b657a03edf01fff96b4e9b?d=identicon&s=25 Yukihiro Matsumoto (Guest)
on 2007-10-30 10:16
(Received via mailing list)
Hi,

In message "Re: [ANN] the result of Ruby official logo contest"
    on Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:07:57 +0900, Yukihiro Matsumoto
<matz@ruby-lang.org> writes:

|As a chairman of the recently formed Ruby Association LLC[1], I
|happily announce the result of our Ruby official logo contest.

|[1] http://www.ruby-assn.org/
|[2] http://www.ruby-assn.org/logo-contest.html.ja

Oops, this is Japanese version. Try

  http://www.ruby-assn.org/logo-contest.html.en

for English.

|[3] http://www.ruby-assn.org/ruby-logo.jpg

We will provide the new logo kit soon.

              matz.
Ffcb418e17cac2873d611c2b8d8d891c?d=identicon&s=25 Benjohn Barnes (Guest)
on 2007-10-30 10:34
(Received via mailing list)
On 30 Oct 2007, at 09:15, Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote:
>
> |[3] http://www.ruby-assn.org/ruby-logo.jpg

It's a little like an invitingly open door way.

Will the other submissions also be available?

Thanks,
  Benjohn
703fbc991fd63e0e1db54dca9ea31b53?d=identicon&s=25 Robert Dober (Guest)
on 2007-10-30 11:58
(Received via mailing list)
On 10/30/07, Benjohn Barnes <benjohn@fysh.org> wrote:
>
> On 30 Oct 2007, at 09:15, Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote:
> >
> > |[3] http://www.ruby-assn.org/ruby-logo.jpg
>
> It's a little like an invitingly open door way.
>
> Will the other submissions also be available?
Good point, although I have to say right away, this is a beauty, well
done!
Robert
F50f5d582d76f98686da34917531fe56?d=identicon&s=25 Peter Szinek (Guest)
on 2007-10-30 12:20
(Received via mailing list)
Robert Dober wrote:
> On 10/30/07, Benjohn Barnes <benjohn@fysh.org> wrote:
>> On 30 Oct 2007, at 09:15, Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote:
>>> |[3] http://www.ruby-assn.org/ruby-logo.jpg
>> It's a little like an invitingly open door way.
>>
>> Will the other submissions also be available?
> Good point, although I have to say right away, this is a beauty, well done!

This is really interesting... The (so far 2) answers here are quite...
hmm... different compared to the (so far 59) answers here:

http://www.rubyinside.com/so-heres-the-new-ruby-lo...

Does this mean that the Ruby world is clustered into (at least) 2 sets
of people: contributors to the Ruby mailing list and readers of the
rubyinside.com blog? Obviously not, but the contrast between the
quantity and content of the comments on the mailing list vs rubyinside
is pretty striking.

Cheers,
Peter
___
http://www.rubyrailways.com
http://scrubyt.org
Fb1a6916e06f221b5b53a6665f9858eb?d=identicon&s=25 Mikel Lindsaar (Guest)
on 2007-10-30 13:08
(Received via mailing list)
From a design point of view, it has a number of flaws and I find it
washed out and not as beautiful and striking as the exisiting logo.

I read through the comments on the website... aisde from the
unconstructive, inane slander which is unneeded, the professional
negative comments about sum up my view on this logo.

My 2c.

I think it could be improved with a bit of touch up.

Mikel
1c0cd550766a3ee3e4a9c495926e4603?d=identicon&s=25 John Joyce (Guest)
on 2007-10-30 13:49
(Received via mailing list)
It's ok, but it's really just the same logo in a box.
Hardly worth ¥100,000...
I won't be wearing any Tshirts of that, but I'll still use the
language regardless.
Better luck to us all next time...
355dfec2a7633db603db2a178bddb631?d=identicon&s=25 Eustáquio 'TaQ' Rangel (Guest)
on 2007-10-30 14:17
(Received via mailing list)
John Joyce wrote:
> Better luck to us all next time...

I know it's too late for the contest, but this is a logo I'm using on
some
shirts and presentations:

http://eustaquiorangel.com/images/ruby.png

Best regards,

--
Eustáquio "TaQ" Rangel
http://eustaquiorangel.com

"When someone says, "I want a programming language in which I need only
say what
I want done," give him a lollipop."
Alan Perlis
703fbc991fd63e0e1db54dca9ea31b53?d=identicon&s=25 Robert Dober (Guest)
on 2007-10-30 17:03
(Received via mailing list)
On 10/30/07, Peter Szinek <peter@rubyrailways.com> wrote:
> hmm... different compared to the (so far 59) answers here:
>
> http://www.rubyinside.com/so-heres-the-new-ruby-lo...
>
> Does this mean that the Ruby world is clustered into (at least) 2 sets
> of people: contributors to the Ruby mailing list and readers of the
> rubyinside.com blog? Obviously not, but the contrast between the
> quantity

but the news came just out, that explains the quantity
> and content of the comments on the mailing list vs rubyinside
> is pretty striking.
Maybe I would like others better, but I did not see them, I am the
conservative guy and I like how it stays in tradition, I also said
that I liked it but I am not a graphics guy, maybe I should not have
made my verdict.

But you know "de gustibus non disputandum esse" how to say that in
English?
Tast's different?

Cheers
Robert
Ff9e18f0699bf079f1fc91c8d4506438?d=identicon&s=25 James Britt (Guest)
on 2007-10-30 17:56
(Received via mailing list)
Peter Szinek wrote:

> http://www.rubyinside.com/so-heres-the-new-ruby-lo...
>
> Does this mean that the Ruby world is clustered into (at least) 2 sets
> of people: contributors to the Ruby mailing list and readers of the
> rubyinside.com blog? Obviously not, but the contrast between the
> quantity and content of the comments on the mailing list vs rubyinside
> is pretty striking.

Well, I rarely comment on blogs, and prefer to hold discussions on lists
such as this one.

But I did add a comment on rubyinside.com; I do not care for the new
logo, finding it clumsy and complex, useless at small resolutions and
monotone renderings, and generally lacking in the qualities that make
Ruby appealing.  It looks like something for QVC, not a 21st C.
programming language.

Photorealism is the static typing of graphic design.

--
James Britt

"Judge a man by his questions, rather than his answers."
  - Voltaire
Ff9e18f0699bf079f1fc91c8d4506438?d=identicon&s=25 James Britt (Guest)
on 2007-10-30 17:57
(Received via mailing list)
John Joyce wrote:
> It's ok, but it's really just the same logo in a box.
> Hardly worth ¥100,000...
> I won't be wearing any Tshirts of that, but I'll still use the language
> regardless.

Yes, well Python proved that a sucky logo need not hamper a language,
though when they did their homepage redesign the logo got a welcome kick
into modern times.


--
James Britt

"Judge a man by his questions, rather than his answers."
  - Voltaire
45196398e9685000d195ec626d477f0e?d=identicon&s=25 Trans (Guest)
on 2007-10-30 18:18
(Received via mailing list)
On Oct 30, 8:06 am, "Mikel Lindsaar" <raasd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> From a design point of view, it has a number of flaws and I find it
> washed out and not as beautiful and striking as the exisiting logo.
>
> I read through the comments on the website... aisde from the
> unconstructive, inane slander which is unneeded, the professional
> negative comments about sum up my view on this logo.
>
> My 2c.
>
> I think it could be improved with a bit of touch up.

You know all it really needs is for the background to be lighter and
the foreground to have "popping-out" contrast --richer color, perhaps
a little shadow. Then I think it would be pretty nice.

T.
D46a0a9068d00c150835497ade6b4e08?d=identicon&s=25 Stanislav Sedov (Guest)
on 2007-10-30 18:51
(Received via mailing list)
On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 06:07:57PM +0900 Yukihiro Matsumoto mentioned:
> will receive a winner plate and 100,000 JPY (roughly 872 USD).   We
>  * avoid cute ones
>  * select Ruby (jewel) related
>
>    Alter all, the top image of the language is Ruby jewel.  So I
>    avoided rabbits, fairies, and other creatures.
>

For me, the old logo looks much more simple, clean and stylish. The new
one is almost unusable on low resolutions and probably would look badly
on dark backgrounds (from my point of you).

Good work anyway, but will not be better to stay with the old one?
Ae16cb4f6d78e485b04ce1e821592ae5?d=identicon&s=25 Martin DeMello (Guest)
on 2007-10-30 19:43
(Received via mailing list)
On 10/30/07, James Britt <james.britt@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> But I did add a comment on rubyinside.com; I do not care for the new
> logo, finding it clumsy and complex, useless at small resolutions and
> monotone renderings, and generally lacking in the qualities that make
> Ruby appealing.  It looks like something for QVC, not a 21st C.
> programming language.

That was my first thought too. It lacks contrast and "edge
definition", and doesn't scale down well at all ((!) - that was one of
the design guidelines, wasn't it?). Plus, too much  text.

> Photorealism is the static typing of graphic design.

Any sufficiently detailed logo contains an ad-hoc, informally-defined,
artefact-ridden approximation of half a photograph? :)

martin
263f4d936a63d03f2c4454334997551a?d=identicon&s=25 Quincy Brown (Guest)
on 2007-10-30 20:14
(Received via mailing list)
Speaking strictly as a new user to Ruby, first impressions are very
important especially  as a new user who are evaluating every aspect of
the
language. If you ever get one part of it wrong, Ruby runs the risk of
becoming that other language, than a new and up-and-coming endeavor
worth
putting time and money into. The more popular, the more likely all that
love
Ruby will have something to love for a very long time.

This new logo doesn't look right for what I have seen in the last few
weeks,
especially following this group. It would say it needs to be a bold,
brilliantly ruby-red icon, that's simple, but alluring. That is, if Ruby
needs a logo.

Same thing goes for that controversial certification thing. It's not
that
you need it, but when you have it, people talk, and get interested just
because it does have it. For the average user, icons and certifications
mean
nil, but for the future for all Rubyist, we need attention, and a
growing
base of users who will continue to pour in investment (time, energy,
ideas,
money, books, blogs, magazines, and bright red tee-shirts with ruby
logos
all over them, with matching underwear for the holidays--Oh the power of
marketing)...

Quincy
912c61d9da47754de7039f4271334a9f?d=identicon&s=25 Mental Guy (mental)
on 2007-10-30 20:35
(Received via mailing list)
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 01:55:18 +0900, James Britt <james.britt@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I do not care for the new logo, finding it clumsy and complex, useless
> at small resolutions and monotone renderings...

Fully concur.  Also, as a merely practical matter, this logo will be
difficult (and therefore expensive) to print well[1].

General advice to the mailing list from someone with a degree in graphic
design:  do not accept a logo proposal without considering the one- and
two- color treatments, and what it looks like at small sizes[2].

-mental

[1] Think teeshirts, hats and mugs, not book covers.

[2] Rule of thumb:  if you can't make a recognizable favicon out
                    of, you lose.
Fd22ee3cfc7dac283ce8e451af324f7d?d=identicon&s=25 Chad Perrin (Guest)
on 2007-10-30 20:45
(Received via mailing list)
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 04:33:25AM +0900, MenTaLguY wrote:
>
> -mental
>
> [1] Think teeshirts, hats and mugs, not book covers.
>
> [2] Rule of thumb:  if you can't make a recognizable favicon out
>                     of, you lose.

That's why I thought the ruby-assn.org logo looked better:

  http://www.ruby-assn.org/logo.png

See the very simple inverted triangle logo dealio on the left.  Think
about how easy it would be to create a miniaturized monochrome
representation of it without losing its distinctiveness (though some of
the fade effect stuff would have to go, of course).
47b1910084592eb77a032bc7d8d1a84e?d=identicon&s=25 Joel VanderWerf (Guest)
on 2007-10-30 20:52
(Received via mailing list)
Martin DeMello wrote:

> Any sufficiently detailed logo contains an ad-hoc, informally-defined,
> artefact-ridden approximation of half a photograph? :)

Doesn't logo already more or less include a lisp interpreter?

(ps. I'm writing a book called "Butfirst Logo".)

;)
Ae16cb4f6d78e485b04ce1e821592ae5?d=identicon&s=25 Martin DeMello (Guest)
on 2007-10-30 20:57
(Received via mailing list)
On 10/30/07, Joel VanderWerf <vjoel@path.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> Martin DeMello wrote:
>
> > Any sufficiently detailed logo contains an ad-hoc, informally-defined,
> > artefact-ridden approximation of half a photograph? :)
>
> Doesn't logo already more or less include a lisp interpreter?

touche!

> (ps. I'm writing a book called "Butfirst Logo".)

that's beautiful :)

m.
13b511cd4fff9f72326e38526b9701fa?d=identicon&s=25 Todd Burch (toddburch)
on 2007-10-30 22:26
Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote:
> And the prize goes to Tom Schaub, from Lexington, Kentucky USA.  He
> will receive a winner plate and 100,000 JPY (roughly 872 USD).   We
> are now preparing a nice plate.

Congrats Tom!
6d3c187a8b3ef53b08e3e7e8572c4fea?d=identicon&s=25 Jeremy McAnally (Guest)
on 2007-10-30 23:58
(Received via mailing list)
You can see my comments on the http://www.rubyinside.com/ page, and I
think I'm certainly not the only one with those sentiments.

In a nutshell: I don't like it.  And I think plenty of people would
have chipped into a funding drive to get someone experienced in brand
design to take care of designing something rather than tossing the
contest out to a bunch of programmers who know very little about
design.

Alas, it's chosen now, but I'm still open to putting up some money for
another one to be designed, even if it isn't the "official" one and
merely used by those of us who don't care for the one chosen.

--Jeremy

On 10/30/07, Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@ruby-lang.org> wrote:
> will receive a winner plate and 100,000 JPY (roughly 872 USD).   We
>  * avoid cute ones
>  * select Ruby (jewel) related
> the logo without "programming language" text.
>
>                                                         matz.
> [1] http://www.ruby-assn.org/
> [2] http://www.ruby-assn.org/logo-contest.html.ja
> [2] http://www.ruby-assn.org/ruby-logo.jpg
>
>


--
http://www.jeremymcanally.com/

My books:
Ruby in Practice
http://www.manning.com/mcanally/

My free Ruby e-book
http://www.humblelittlerubybook.com/

My blogs:
http://www.mrneighborly.com/
http://www.rubyinpractice.com/
0ec4920185b657a03edf01fff96b4e9b?d=identicon&s=25 Yukihiro Matsumoto (Guest)
on 2007-10-31 01:00
(Received via mailing list)
Hi,

In message "Re: [ANN] the result of Ruby official logo contest"
    on Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:57:29 +0900, "Jeremy McAnally"
<jeremymcanally@gmail.com> writes:

|You can see my comments on the http://www.rubyinside.com/ page, and I
|think I'm certainly not the only one with those sentiments.

Those comments made me down. X-<

If it could be improved as Mikel and Trans expressed, I'd ask the
author to touch up.  But...

              matz.
Ff9e18f0699bf079f1fc91c8d4506438?d=identicon&s=25 James Britt (Guest)
on 2007-10-31 01:09
(Received via mailing list)
Jeremy McAnally wrote:
> You can see my comments on the http://www.rubyinside.com/ page, and I
> think I'm certainly not the only one with those sentiments.
>
> In a nutshell: I don't like it.  And I think plenty of people would
> have chipped into a funding drive to get someone experienced in brand
> design to take care of designing something rather than tossing the
> contest out to a bunch of programmers who know very little about
> design.


FWIW, I announced this contest on  a mailing list for Web designers and
developers in the Phoenix, AZ, area.  I did not see any reaction, and
have no idea if anyone bothered to submit anything. Too bad.

It may be trickier than imagined to rouse interest and get folks
motivated; some Rails-style hype would have come in handy for this.

There was much more interest when the ruby-lang.org redesign was
underway.  Many of the logos produced for that project would make better
choices.

James
4828d528e2e46f7c8160c336eb332836?d=identicon&s=25 Robert Heiler (shevegen)
on 2007-10-31 01:38
I just looked at the Python logo
http://www.python.org/images/python-logo.gif too, to compare.

It looks somewhat okay, but also a bit like a company's site logo ...
And didnt Python have a logo-snake in the past? It looked not good, but
python did put a lot of emphasis on "FUN" ... the new webpage looks more
professional, but less "fun"... Anyway that is just my opinion.

(Btw that Python logo has a TM notice while the ruby logo has not, maybe
thats also a different philosophy behind a language? *grin*)

PS: I actually like the proposed logo. If there is only one aspect I
could change, maybe I would try to make it more crisp/sharper, but I
side on the people that like the logo anyway so it aint important for
me. ;)

PSS: I will put the "official" one on my webpage as link to the ruby
site too :D
5a601582df3b42b65a5e8353fc9305da?d=identicon&s=25 Gerardo Santana Gómez Garrido (Guest)
on 2007-10-31 02:20
(Received via mailing list)
2007/10/30, Marc Heiler <shevegen@linuxmail.org>:
>
> PS: I actually like the proposed logo. If there is only one aspect I
> could change, maybe I would try to make it more crisp/sharper, but I
> side on the people that like the logo anyway so it aint important for
> me. ;)
>
> PSS: I will put the "official" one on my webpage as link to the ruby
> site too :D

Here are better ones:
http://www.goodbyehelicopter.com/2007/10/30/fwiw-m...

It's funny that you didn't mention Perl, or PHP.

Perl's is not precisely a great logo either. But everybody associates
the camel (and not a pearl) with Perl (after "the Camel" book), so it
works great for Perl, and therefore it's a great logo (oops, reductio
ad absurdum? :)

PHP's, well, it's simple and does the job. I wonder how it got chosen.
It reminds me the first logo in the URL above.
6d3c187a8b3ef53b08e3e7e8572c4fea?d=identicon&s=25 Jeremy McAnally (Guest)
on 2007-10-31 03:24
(Received via mailing list)
Oh, I didn't mean to make you sad! :)

I just thought it best to be frank about it.  I'm not a brand design
expert or anything, but I think this logo sort of fails on a number of
levels.

Can I ask you why you're seeking something other than the gem itself?
Is there a specific need you were wanting to fill with this logo that
it wouldn't?  I didn't see any sort of information like that anywhere.
 "Promotion of Ruby" doesn't really say much, especially when I think
the gem on its own would probably work for that.

--Jeremy

On 10/30/07, Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@ruby-lang.org> wrote:
> If it could be improved as Mikel and Trans expressed, I'd ask the
> author to touch up.  But...
>
>                                                         matz.
>
>


--
http://www.jeremymcanally.com/

My books:
Ruby in Practice
http://www.manning.com/mcanally/

My free Ruby e-book
http://www.humblelittlerubybook.com/

My blogs:
http://www.mrneighborly.com/
http://www.rubyinpractice.com/
Ee04bc0ca6dcdad4a7e8a8e1d4efb5d0?d=identicon&s=25 Michael W. Ryder (Guest)
on 2007-10-31 03:42
(Received via mailing list)
Mikel Lindsaar wrote:
>
A couple of seconds experimenting with PhotoShop and the Spotlight
filter gave me, what I felt, was a much improved version of the original
design.  Maybe the original wasn't as bad as the saved version.  A lot
of programs seem to filter out some of the design when saving it to
anything but it's native format.
852a62a28f1de229dc861ce903b07a60?d=identicon&s=25 Gavin Kistner (phrogz)
on 2007-10-31 04:35
(Received via mailing list)
I'm saddened by the outpouring of criticism that this logo has
created. A few thoughts:

1) It's hard to unit test a design, because it's largely subjective.
(This can be one of the most rewarding and frustrating things about
art, for me. You don't know when you're 'done'.) It may be that
different people have different ideas about what makes a good logo.
(Should it be 'sexy'? Simple? Cutting edge? Retro? Is a simple clear
recognizable favicon important?)

2) Like open source software, this was an open project. I'm
disappointed that so many people choose to outpour and outcry "THAT
SUCKS, I COULD HAVE DONE BETTER!" If you could have done better, you
should have done so. I feel that this behavior is similar to not
voting in an election and then complaining bitterly about which
candidate won. You could have helped, but you didn't; you need to
learn to respect those who actually stepped up and tried to help out.

3) In being saddened by this, it's important to realize that (a) some
people don't have the necessarily skills to help create a good icon,
but (b) that doesn't necessarily mean they don't have valid
criticisms. As long as the criticism is accurate and clear, it can
prove very useful to improving the end result.[1]

4) I wish to express my thanks to Tom Schaub (the winner) for his
efforts. Tom, I wish you luck in seeing any valid criticism openly,
and discarding the unhelpful vitriolic easily. I also want to thank
everyone else who made submissions. Finally, I want to thank people
who have clearly conveyed what they don't like about the logo. 'Right'
or 'wrong', at least you've provided something less subjective than
"gag", or "hideous" or "abortion" or "a joke". Something that might be
useful in a future iteration or design choice.

5) I hope that this can be an open, iterative process. I don't think
that we want the Ruby logo changing monthly, but perhaps once a year
the community can work on and improve the official face of Ruby, if
only slightly, continuously improving the marketing to match the
beauty of the language.


[1] http://phrogz.net/nodes/criticismwithoutasolution.asp
3bb23e7770680ea44a2d79e6d10daaed?d=identicon&s=25 M. Edward (Ed) Borasky (Guest)
on 2007-10-31 04:41
(Received via mailing list)
Gerardo Santana Gómez Garrido wrote:
>> thats also a different philosophy behind a language? *grin*)
> http://www.goodbyehelicopter.com/2007/10/30/fwiw-m...
>
> It's funny that you didn't mention Perl, or PHP.
>
> Perl's is not precisely a great logo either. But everybody associates
> the camel (and not a pearl) with Perl (after "the Camel" book), so it
> works great for Perl, and therefore it's a great logo (oops, reductio
> ad absurdum? :)
>
> PHP's, well, it's simple and does the job. I wonder how it got chosen.
> It reminds me the first logo in the URL above.
Well ... there's the PostgreSQL elephant and the MySQL dolphin. As far
as a logo for Ruby is concerned, I don't have any strong opinions one
way or another about the new one, except that at first glance, it looked
to me a lot like the Rails logo.
852a62a28f1de229dc861ce903b07a60?d=identicon&s=25 Gavin Kistner (phrogz)
on 2007-10-31 04:45
(Received via mailing list)
On Oct 30, 9:31 pm, Phrogz <phr...@mac.com> wrote:
> I'm saddened by the outpouring of criticism that this logo has
> created. A few thoughts:

Here are a few more thoughts, that I posted as a comment on the Ruby
Inside article:


My initial impression was that it has a nice soft feel to it. Very
welcoming.

I'm not wild about the typography. Simplifying the choices of font
weight, capitalization, size, and alignment would (I think) help the
overall logo tremendously. (Of course, Matz has suggested that it
might often be used without the "Programming Language" bit, which
helps this point.)

Upon reflection and reading these comments, I agree that this
particular logo might not work well (as is) at a small size, or in a
reduced-color representation. I'm not sure if that's appropriate
criticism. Certainly variations on this logo can be created that both
have strong ties to the original and also work better than it in other
settings. I do not believe the best logo has to work - without
modification - for every purpose.

Yes, it would be nice to have a version of the logo that works in
website bookmarks and is still sort of recognizable. But I don't want
a 16 color favicon logo as the official branding of Ruby. I want
something better.

Can this logo be improved? Sure. Is it terrible? Definitely not.

Are some of the comments attached to this article insensitive,
unhelpful, and way out of line? I certainly think so.
31ab75f7ddda241830659630746cdd3a?d=identicon&s=25 Austin Ziegler (austin)
on 2007-10-31 04:47
(Received via mailing list)
On 10/30/07, Gerardo Santana Gómez Garrido <gerardo.santana@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Here are better ones:
> http://www.goodbyehelicopter.com/2007/10/30/fwiw-m...

Oddly enough, I thought all of the ones on that page, well, sucked.
They were boring.

I can't say that the chosen logo "turns me on", but I think it can be
cleaned up; maybe with a few more black lines to darken the gem;
possibly wash out the red/orange background gradient.

But I don't think it's a *bad* logo at all, and it's certainly better
than some of the Web 2.0 style logos that I've seen touted as
"better".

-austin
852a62a28f1de229dc861ce903b07a60?d=identicon&s=25 Gavin Kistner (phrogz)
on 2007-10-31 04:50
(Received via mailing list)
On Oct 30, 1:33 pm, MenTaLguY <men...@rydia.net> wrote:
> Fully concur.  Also, as a merely practical matter, this logo will be
> difficult (and therefore expensive) to print well[1].

It seems to me that you are implying that a good logo should cater to
the lowest common denominator. "Don't put color in that logo, it won't
work well when printed on a laser printer! And make sure that all
details are readable at 16x16!"

Obviously my quote takes that to the extreme, and does not directly
represent what you are saying. (You didn't shout, for one thing.) But
I contend that good branding can consist of multiple flavors of a
design. Soft gradients and drop shadows (as ugh as they may be) for
the web, solid colors for some print, reduced details (beyond just
resizing) for small-size reproduction.

No, we don't have these in the chosen icon. But that doesn't mean that
they can't be created. A few minutes photoshop work (without the
original files, even) can drop out the gradient background and bring
sharper contrast to the gem and words. And I'm not a very good
designer; someone with more skill than I could certainly, I think,
make alternative versions for different, specific, uses rather easily.

I think about well-designed icons, how entire aspects of the design in
a 128x128 icon are slowly removed as you get to smaller and smaller
sizes. Is there any reason the favicon would have to be the bicubic
resampling of the entire icon, instead of just a recognizable subset
of it?
1c0cd550766a3ee3e4a9c495926e4603?d=identicon&s=25 John Joyce (Guest)
on 2007-10-31 05:13
(Received via mailing list)
Oh, it doesn't really matter!
Let's get back to things about code.
How many languages actually have or are known for logos?
Not many really.
No logo will please everyone, and it doesn't really have to.
It's not a democratic activity.

We have a very nice language here, that's what matters.
8666d1ebabcea440585dfe831a4af9f1?d=identicon&s=25 Brian Adkins (Guest)
on 2007-10-31 05:20
(Received via mailing list)
On Oct 30, 3:51 pm, Joel VanderWerf <vj...@path.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> Martin DeMello wrote:
> > Any sufficiently detailed logo contains an ad-hoc, informally-defined,
> > artefact-ridden approximation of half a photograph? :)
>
> Doesn't logo already more or less include a lisp interpreter?
>
> (ps. I'm writing a book called "Butfirst Logo".)

I cdr done that.
6087a044557d6b59ab52e7dd20f94da8?d=identicon&s=25 Peña, Botp (Guest)
on 2007-10-31 06:26
(Received via mailing list)
From: Phrogz [mailto:phrogz@mac.com]
# 5) I hope that this can be an open, iterative process. I don't think
# that we want the Ruby logo changing monthly, but perhaps once a year
# the community can work on and improve the official face of Ruby, if
# only slightly, continuously improving the marketing to match the
# beauty of the language.

totally agree.
kind regards -botp
6087a044557d6b59ab52e7dd20f94da8?d=identicon&s=25 Peña, Botp (Guest)
on 2007-10-31 06:30
(Received via mailing list)
From: Austin Ziegler [mailto:halostatue@gmail.com]
# On 10/30/07, Gerardo Santana Gómez Garrido
# http://www.goodbyehelicopter.com/2007/10/30/fwiw-m...
# submissions/
#
# Oddly enough, I thought all of the ones on that page, well, sucked.
# They were boring.

oddly, we differ. i think they were better.. the old ruby logo in
ruby-lang is better too..

# I can't say that the chosen logo "turns me on", but I think it can be
# cleaned up; maybe with a few more black lines to darken the gem;
# possibly wash out the red/orange background gradient.

i suggest we remove all those fill colors and all text. ie we start with
the plain outline, the sliced gem and the box. if we do not like the
outlined result, then it's really not what we want. but looking at it
now, i guess a plain smoothed outline is not bad (in fact i may be happy
even without those colors :)) can anyone experiment on this, pls?

# But I don't think it's a *bad* logo at all, and it's certainly better
# than some of the Web 2.0 style logos that I've seen touted as
# "better".

along the lines w this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logo

kind regards -botp
341a3b654410ec7f65c68daae266410d?d=identicon&s=25 Andi Cutman (axgle)
on 2007-10-31 06:43
Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote:
> I especially prefer the image part of the new logo, so we might use
> the logo without "programming language" text.
Me too.I like the image part of the new logo too.And,may be see
http://www.asiamedia.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=44469
Fb1a6916e06f221b5b53a6665f9858eb?d=identicon&s=25 Mikel Lindsaar (Guest)
on 2007-10-31 07:29
(Received via mailing list)
On 10/31/07, Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@ruby-lang.org> wrote:
> Those comments made me down. X-<
>
> If it could be improved as Mikel and Trans expressed, I'd ask the
> author to touch up.  But...

Hey Matzさん

I think a wise person said once "You can't get anything good out of
group agreement" and the only real strides made have been by
individuals who are willing to put themselves on the line to make
something... like yourself with the great language, Ruby.

Granted, groups can help, and assist to codify and expand.  But it is
the individual contributions that moves things forward in every case.

So don't feel down about any negative comments...

As I said above and Trans has as well, it is not a bad logo at all.
There are some minor things that, if done, could make it a lot better
and really add some punch to it.

Absolutely, the author could touch it up a little.  I think if he taks
the professional comments out of all the stupid and inane comments
from the blog, and looks at them, there are only about 3 points which
are repeated which would make the world of difference:

1) Add saturation to it a bit more to give it a bit more punch -
removes the washed out feeling from it.

2) Use a sans-serif font that is not common, for some uniqueness -
makes it more modern looking.

3) Define the gem itself some more.

If the author of the logo got with the person who designed the front
page of www.ruby-lang.org and spent a small amount of time, I am sure
it would come out a lot better.

I would be willing to help... but my photoshop and illustrator skills
are not _quite_ up to it.

Regards

Mikel
Ba8a6ef0c4e40eafe542723dab94cd97?d=identicon&s=25 Arlen Christian Mart Cuss (Guest)
on 2007-10-31 12:32
(Received via mailing list)
Hi,

On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 18:07 +0900, Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> As a chairman of the recently formed Ruby Association LLC[1], I
> happily announce the result of our Ruby official logo contest.


I changed the logo on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_(programming_language) to a non-text
version of the selected logo, identifying the license as CC by-sa 3.0. I
hope no one minds; otherwise, feel free to revert.

Arlen
13b511cd4fff9f72326e38526b9701fa?d=identicon&s=25 Todd Burch (toddburch)
on 2007-10-31 15:32
John Joyce wrote:
> Oh, it doesn't really matter!
> Let's get back to things about code.
> How many languages actually have or are known for logos?
> Not many really.
> No logo will please everyone, and it doesn't really have to.
> It's not a democratic activity.
>
> We have a very nice language here, that's what matters.

This reminds me a local Mexican Food resturaunt, "El Patio".   It has a
separate bar room with two signs on the door.  The top sign says "Club"
and the bottom smaller sign says "No Minors".

It has come to be known as "Club No Minors".  In years past, it had a
fancy name and fancy sign, but people kept stealing the sign.  What
endures is the bar, not the name.  With Ruby what will endure is the
language, not the logo.

Todd

http://www.elpatio.com/club.htm
(Great cheese enchiladas)
1c0cd550766a3ee3e4a9c495926e4603?d=identicon&s=25 John Joyce (Guest)
on 2007-10-31 18:48
(Received via mailing list)
On Oct 31, 2007, at 6:28 AM, Arlen Christian Mart Cuss wrote:

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_(programming_language) to a non-text
> version of the selected logo, identifying the license as CC by-sa
> 3.0. I
> hope no one minds; otherwise, feel free to revert.
>
> Arlen
>
>
Arlen, it looks like you adjusted the logo a bit. Colors are more
saturated. Contrast is higher.
Fd22ee3cfc7dac283ce8e451af324f7d?d=identicon&s=25 Chad Perrin (Guest)
on 2007-10-31 19:05
(Received via mailing list)
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 04:51:42AM +0900, Joel VanderWerf wrote:
>
> (ps. I'm writing a book called "Butfirst Logo".)

I tend to guess that's a joke -- but if you're serious, I'd like to know
more.
47b1910084592eb77a032bc7d8d1a84e?d=identicon&s=25 Joel VanderWerf (Guest)
on 2007-10-31 20:03
(Received via mailing list)
Chad Perrin wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 04:51:42AM +0900, Joel VanderWerf wrote:
>> (ps. I'm writing a book called "Butfirst Logo".)
>
> I tend to guess that's a joke -- but if you're serious, I'd like to know
> more.

Sorry to disappoint you.... it's a terrible joke. :)

It Matz really does add Enumerable#butfirst (being discussed now), this
book title could be a reality for ruby....
5d59886b6c2b943f89694ebda99ff573?d=identicon&s=25 Ce Jacas (cejacas)
on 2007-11-01 00:37
Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote:

>  * select Ruby (jewel) related
>
>    Alter all, the top image of the language is Ruby jewel.  So I
>    avoided rabbits, fairies, and other creatures.
>

Hi,

I think the selected submission does not fulfill the purposes of the
contest: to work in low resolution (even black and white), with and
without text, etc.

For those curious about other ideas, you can see what I submitted at:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2175/1809915337_944...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2253/1809915191_579...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2050/1810811502_f58...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2173/1810867632_99e...

Will the new logo work as an image for files with .rb extensión inside a
file explorer? As a favicon? Printed in black & white?

I think something like the process used by the Open Logo Project
(http://olp.spreadshirt.com) would have been more interesting.
1c0cd550766a3ee3e4a9c495926e4603?d=identicon&s=25 John Joyce (Guest)
on 2007-11-01 02:57
(Received via mailing list)
On Oct 31, 2007, at 2:02 PM, Joel VanderWerf wrote:

> this book title could be a reality for ruby....
>
> --
>       vjoel : Joel VanderWerf : path berkeley edu : 510 665 3407
>
is that Enumerabl#buttfirst ?
could be a good alias for .last or for reverse ordering!
47b1910084592eb77a032bc7d8d1a84e?d=identicon&s=25 Joel VanderWerf (Guest)
on 2007-11-01 06:48
(Received via mailing list)
John Joyce wrote:
> is that Enumerabl#buttfirst ?
> could be a good alias for .last or for reverse ordering!

And don't forget Enumerable#butthead, which returns an array consisting
of the last n elements followed by the first n elements.
1c0cd550766a3ee3e4a9c495926e4603?d=identicon&s=25 John Joyce (Guest)
on 2007-11-01 07:18
(Received via mailing list)
On Nov 1, 2007, at 12:44 AM, Joel VanderWerf wrote:

> John Joyce wrote:
>> is that Enumerabl#buttfirst ?
>> could be a good alias for .last or for reverse ordering!
>
> And don't forget Enumerable#butthead, which returns an array
> consisting of the last n elements followed by the first n elements.
>
> --
>       vjoel : Joel VanderWerf : path berkeley edu : 510 665 3407
>
Nice one. But maybe it would simply return the username of the
account, or an array of randomly selected buttheads from the day's
headlines...
703fbc991fd63e0e1db54dca9ea31b53?d=identicon&s=25 Robert Dober (Guest)
on 2007-11-01 10:31
(Received via mailing list)
On 11/1/07, John Joyce <dangerwillrobinsondanger@gmail.com> wrote:
> > --
> >       vjoel : Joel VanderWerf : path berkeley edu : 510 665 3407
> >
> Nice one. But maybe it would simply return the username of the
> account, or an array of randomly selected buttheads from the day's
> headlines...
watch out to lazy evaluate it though...

Robert
Ba8a6ef0c4e40eafe542723dab94cd97?d=identicon&s=25 Arlen Christian Mart Cuss (Guest)
on 2007-11-01 12:39
(Received via mailing list)
Hi there,

On Thu, 2007-11-01 at 02:42 +0900, John Joyce wrote:
> Arlen, it looks like you adjusted the logo a bit. Colors are more
> saturated. Contrast is higher.
>

I did not modify the logo in any other way than cropping the text.

I have no real problems with the logo as is, by the way.

Arlen
797ef431a5e1295b56c08e1db4c8d2df?d=identicon&s=25 botp (Guest)
on 2007-11-01 15:37
(Received via mailing list)
On 11/1/07, Ce Jacas <evangelino.valverde@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2050/1810811502_f58...

this is fine. just remove the text and the sparkles (the sparkles look
like thorns). remember, we need a _logo_.
797ef431a5e1295b56c08e1db4c8d2df?d=identicon&s=25 botp (Guest)
on 2007-11-01 15:41
(Received via mailing list)
> this is fine. just remove the text and the sparkles (the sparkles look
> like thorns). remember, we need a _logo_.
>

btw, mind if i copy it? you wont need it anymore since the contest is
finished, right? ;-)

kind regards -botp
Fd22ee3cfc7dac283ce8e451af324f7d?d=identicon&s=25 Chad Perrin (Guest)
on 2007-11-02 07:20
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 04:02:43AM +0900, Joel VanderWerf wrote:
> Chad Perrin wrote:
> >On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 04:51:42AM +0900, Joel VanderWerf wrote:
> >>(ps. I'm writing a book called "Butfirst Logo".)
> >
> >I tend to guess that's a joke -- but if you're serious, I'd like to know
> >more.
>
> Sorry to disappoint you.... it's a terrible joke. :)

Darn.  I thought it was a pretty *good* joke, if you were serious.  More
high-class, self-deprecating puns like that in the titles of technical
texts would be a plus, I think.


>
> It Matz really does add Enumerable#butfirst (being discussed now), this
> book title could be a reality for ruby....

The butfirst procedure in Logo is pretty damned useful.  I wouldn't be
opposed to seeing an Enumerable#butfirst in Ruby -- even with the
unavoidable juvenile humor that will be only mildly amusing the first
time, and will rapidly lose its charm from there.
1c0cd550766a3ee3e4a9c495926e4603?d=identicon&s=25 John Joyce (Guest)
on 2007-11-02 07:41
(Received via mailing list)
On Nov 2, 2007, at 1:19 AM, Chad Perrin wrote:

>
>
> The butfirst procedure in Logo is pretty damned useful.  I wouldn't be
> opposed to seeing an Enumerable#butfirst in Ruby -- even with the
> unavoidable juvenile humor that will be only mildly amusing the first
> time, and will rapidly lose its charm from there.
It would be useful, but the juvenile humor would probably be forever.
Eedeb9fa4dc9ab161bc8132f8f438531?d=identicon&s=25 Willem Källman (carilja)
on 2007-11-02 10:07
Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote:
> Those comments made me down. X-<

Matz, this is not your regular dissensus, which certainly every logo
decision would have caused.
The new logo is simply painfully ungraceful, archaic and amateurish,
thus reflecting everything that Ruby is not.
Unfortunately, the other proposals shown in various comments seem even
worse, except for this one:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2176/1806344630_72e...

I think the single-gem logo concept hits the spot and the next
logo, with some minor typographic tweaking, should be based upon it:
http://www.ruby-lang.org/images/logo.gif

Willem
C1c455d7be33455654fa4aadb5a66bb1?d=identicon&s=25 Simon Mullis (Guest)
on 2007-11-02 10:25
(Received via mailing list)
>
> Any sufficiently detailed logo contains an ad-hoc, informally-defined,
> artefact-ridden approximation of half a photograph? :)
>
>
Haha!  Genius!

SM
703fbc991fd63e0e1db54dca9ea31b53?d=identicon&s=25 Robert Dober (Guest)
on 2007-11-02 11:14
(Received via mailing list)
On 11/2/07, Chad Perrin <perrin@apotheon.com> wrote:
> Darn.  I thought it was a pretty *good* joke, if you were serious.  More
> unavoidable juvenile humor that will be only mildly amusing the first
> time, and will rapidly lose its charm from there.
Is this not one of these self deprecating puns? Not being in the same
intellectual league of course, but (no, this is not juvenile here!!!!)
at least I can understand it ;)
R.
31ab75f7ddda241830659630746cdd3a?d=identicon&s=25 Austin Ziegler (austin)
on 2007-11-02 13:03
(Received via mailing list)
On 11/2/07, Willem Källman <lefteus@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote:
> > Those comments made me down. X-<
> Matz, this is not your regular dissensus, which certainly every logo
> decision would have caused.
> The new logo is simply painfully ungraceful, archaic and amateurish,
> thus reflecting everything that Ruby is not.
> Unfortunately, the other proposals shown in various comments seem even
> worse, except for this one:
> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2176/1806344630_72e...

Ugh. That's the worst. I don't know why people think that Web 2.0
logos would be a good idea here. Talk about dating yourself quickly
... to 2006.

-austin
6d3c187a8b3ef53b08e3e7e8572c4fea?d=identicon&s=25 Jeremy McAnally (Guest)
on 2007-11-02 15:40
(Received via mailing list)
I like that logo because it's versatile.  He's put a "Web 2.0" finish
on it now, but you could just as easily redefine it into something not
Web 2.0.  I see it like the Apple logo: rainbows were so 1970's, but
tossing some shine on it brought it into the new millenium.

I think that logo could handle that sort of transformation quite easily.

--Jeremy

On Nov 2, 2007 8:03 AM, Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>



--
http://www.jeremymcanally.com/

My books:
Ruby in Practice
http://www.manning.com/mcanally/

My free Ruby e-book
http://www.humblelittlerubybook.com/

My blogs:
http://www.mrneighborly.com/
http://www.rubyinpractice.com/
4828d528e2e46f7c8160c336eb332836?d=identicon&s=25 Robert Heiler (shevegen)
on 2007-11-02 15:46
"but you could just as easily redefine it into something not Web 2.0. "

I think that last logo is a bit non-characteristic for Ruby though.
1ccae317ad748fd670fdb8ef5d26586e?d=identicon&s=25 Wayne Magor (wemagor)
on 2007-11-02 16:04
The winning logo terribly needs work.  OK, so you've picked a logo, but
please clean it up a bit.  Personally, I prefer this

http://www.ruby-lang.org/images/logo.gif

but that's a moot point since the choice has been made.  Now, maybe
there should be a contest to take the chosen logo and clean it up to
make it into something that is more acceptable to the Ruby community.

Perhaps, there could be a hundred minor variations of the chosen logo
and the winner of that contest would be a significant improvement.
5d59886b6c2b943f89694ebda99ff573?d=identicon&s=25 Ce Jacas (cejacas)
on 2007-11-02 17:10
botp wrote:
>> this is fine. just remove the text and the sparkles (the sparkles look
>> like thorns). remember, we need a _logo_.
>>
>
> btw, mind if i copy it? you wont need it anymore since the contest is
> finished, right? ;-)
>
> kind regards -botp

Sure,

just drop me a mail and i'll send you the logo (with and without text
and sparkles) in svg format.

Please, if you use it, apply the Creative Commons Attribution-Share
Alike license.

regards, Cejacas.
Ae16cb4f6d78e485b04ce1e821592ae5?d=identicon&s=25 Martin DeMello (Guest)
on 2007-11-02 19:38
(Received via mailing list)
On 11/1/07, Chad Perrin <perrin@apotheon.com> wrote:
> Darn.  I thought it was a pretty *good* joke, if you were serious.  More
> high-class, self-deprecating puns like that in the titles of technical
> texts would be a plus, I think.

I thought it was a brilliant multiple pun, irrespective of its
seriousness :)

martin
53bb5456c86e48e788fb09bb67ebcf62?d=identicon&s=25 mortee (Guest)
on 2007-11-02 19:48
(Received via mailing list)
Willem Källman wrote:
> Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote:
>> Those comments made me down. X-<
>
> Matz, this is not your regular dissensus, which certainly every logo
> decision would have caused.
> The new logo is simply painfully ungraceful, archaic and amateurish,
> thus reflecting everything that Ruby is not.
> Unfortunately, the other proposals shown in various comments seem even
> worse, except for this one:
> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2176/1806344630_72e...

This is the best version I've seen so far. My GF hates it though (:

mortee
Fd22ee3cfc7dac283ce8e451af324f7d?d=identicon&s=25 Chad Perrin (Guest)
on 2007-11-02 20:22
(Received via mailing list)
On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 03:37:41AM +0900, Martin DeMello wrote:
> >
> > Darn.  I thought it was a pretty *good* joke, if you were serious.  More
> > high-class, self-deprecating puns like that in the titles of technical
> > texts would be a plus, I think.
>
> I thought it was a brilliant multiple pun, irrespective of its seriousness :)

Good to know I'm not the only one who thought so.
Fd22ee3cfc7dac283ce8e451af324f7d?d=identicon&s=25 Chad Perrin (Guest)
on 2007-11-02 20:24
(Received via mailing list)
On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 06:07:21PM +0900, Willem K??llman wrote:
>
> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2176/1806344630_72e...

Oh, that is *excellent*.
Fd22ee3cfc7dac283ce8e451af324f7d?d=identicon&s=25 Chad Perrin (Guest)
on 2007-11-02 20:45
(Received via mailing list)
On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 09:03:00PM +0900, Austin Ziegler wrote:
>
> Ugh. That's the worst. I don't know why people think that Web 2.0
> logos would be a good idea here. Talk about dating yourself quickly
> ... to 2006.

Ignore the surroundings and fluff for a moment.  The core image is
simple, elegant, versatile, and easily slotted into any general-purpose
application of a logo (favicons, t-shirts, stickers, websites, et
cetera).  It doesn't require major modifications to suit it well to
different purposes, and with only minor additions or tweaks can be
adjusted to fit the standards of hipness for any marketing era.

Examples of logos with that sort of timeless flexibility include, but
are
not limited to:

  the AT&T "Death Star"
  the Windows wavy-window (though they've screwed with it a lot)
  the Apple apple
  the SGI hypercube
  the Sun diagonal square (whith the clever "u + n = S" motif)
  the Target target

Notice that the AT&T "Death Star" logo has gained a definite
three-dimensional appearance [http://att.com], the Microsoft Windows
wavy-window is now softly center-lit and acquired both a
three-dimensional look and simplified pastel feel
[http://microsoft.com/en/us/default.aspx], the Apple apple is looking
mirrored and glossy these days, and even the Target target has acquired
a
drop-reflection somewhere along the way.  SGI hs, for some reason,
decided its logo should just be three letters (it looks like crap now),
but Sun's logo hasn't really undergone any modifications to fit the new
sense of what catches people's eyes -- though it was well-enough
designed
that it fits in with a color-gradient background on the website
perfectly
anyway [http://sun.com/].

These logos have all gone through a number of incarnations over the
years, to fit the current marketing imagery paradigm, but have largely
remained unmolested in their core design philosophies.  They've worked
for years, and have contributed to the visibility and recognizability of
the organizations they represent.

These logos have some things in common:

  simplicity
  elegance
  versatility
  flexibility of application
  easily fit into changing trends in marketing imagery

Sound familiar?
31ab75f7ddda241830659630746cdd3a?d=identicon&s=25 Austin Ziegler (austin)
on 2007-11-02 23:36
(Received via mailing list)
On 11/2/07, Chad Perrin <perrin@apotheon.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 09:03:00PM +0900, Austin Ziegler wrote:
> > Ugh. That's the worst. I don't know why people think that Web 2.0
> > logos would be a good idea here. Talk about dating yourself quickly
> > ... to 2006.
> Ignore the surroundings and fluff for a moment.  The core image is
> simple, elegant, versatile, and easily slotted into any general-purpose
> application of a logo (favicons, t-shirts, stickers, websites, et
> cetera).  It doesn't require major modifications to suit it well to
> different purposes, and with only minor additions or tweaks can be
> adjusted to fit the standards of hipness for any marketing era.

I think the sharp-angled, lying-on-its-drunken-side four-tone ruby in
that logo is neither elegant or versatile. I'd argue about simple;
simplistic, maybe.

It doesn't look any better than the ubiquitous "beta star" you see on
Web 2.0 sites.

I believe that this so-called "better logo" would need as much work
(or more) to be acceptable.

> Sound familiar?

Yeah. All of those positive attributes don't apply to the logo you like.

-austin
250bae3d6c5e2c936b9219d7575c93a9?d=identicon&s=25 I. P. (Guest)
on 2007-11-04 00:02
(Received via mailing list)
|Chad Perrin|

>> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2176/1806344630_72e...
CP> Oh, that is *excellent*.
Quite interesting though it works only for those who has seen old
logo (and mentally complementing 2D for 3D), I'm afraid.
Cb7c371146108bd4abc3c00e20ad1137?d=identicon&s=25 Mark T (Guest)
on 2007-11-04 04:01
(Received via mailing list)
Yep,
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2176/1806344630_72e...
is interesting.
1) It has some unforseen implied angles.
2) There is the lack of a box, so it cannot even be out of one.
3) There is a major edge out of visual reading harmonic, in that it is
the top left, first part of a western-reading scan.
4) This promotes the 'edginess' of Ruby.
5) Then there is the lack of alignment of the subText.
6) (5) Combined with (3) promotes a leaning towards a tipping point.
Very clever.
7) This tipping point is left-2-right, which makes taking the entire
pill a whole bunch easier.
8) The logo can change over time.

If http://www.ruby-assn.org/ruby-logo.jpg is to be adjusted in any way
my observation is that resorting to any colour approaching Orange is a
desperate last act of marketing. Even in a gradation.
Orange is a washed out mid between red (warming influence) & yellow
(alerting influence). Undecided at best,
Here is one example : http://telstra.com/index.jsp
Another: http://www.orange.com/english/home.php

So many times I have found (& still do) Ruby-lang to be breathtaking,
it would be good if the logo did the same.

MarkT
1c0cd550766a3ee3e4a9c495926e4603?d=identicon&s=25 John Joyce (Guest)
on 2007-11-04 09:41
(Received via mailing list)
It's actually quite amusing to read programmers' quibbling over
graphic design...
it's about like mom's arguing the merits of  an operating system...
53bb5456c86e48e788fb09bb67ebcf62?d=identicon&s=25 mortee (Guest)
on 2007-11-04 10:33
(Received via mailing list)
John Joyce wrote:
> It's actually quite amusing to read programmers' quibbling over graphic
> design...
> it's about like mom's arguing the merits of  an operating system...

There's a saying in my country: you don't have to be a shoemaker in
order to know how your shoes hurt your leg. This is not to say that I
agree or disagree with anything posted in this thread, just that even
programmers may have valid points related to graphic design or anything
else.

mortee
1c0cd550766a3ee3e4a9c495926e4603?d=identicon&s=25 John Joyce (Guest)
on 2007-11-04 15:06
(Received via mailing list)
On Nov 4, 2007, at 3:25 AM, mortee wrote:

> anything
> else.
>
> mortee
>
>
Oh I don't doubt that at all. But it is fascinating to read the
comments. Programmers are generally extremely (anal) picky about what
words are used or how to describe something precisely. However, when
it comes to art & design, they generally lack the vocabulary. Of
course, it makes sense, as every field of study has its own jargon
and its own common idioms.

The uninitiated sound like cats talking to dogs.
Fd22ee3cfc7dac283ce8e451af324f7d?d=identicon&s=25 Chad Perrin (Guest)
on 2007-11-04 20:21
(Received via mailing list)
On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 06:59:25AM +0900, Austin Ziegler wrote:
> > adjusted to fit the standards of hipness for any marketing era.
>
> I think the sharp-angled, lying-on-its-drunken-side four-tone ruby in
> that logo is neither elegant or versatile. I'd argue about simple;
> simplistic, maybe.
>
> It doesn't look any better than the ubiquitous "beta star" you see on
> Web 2.0 sites.
>
> I believe that this so-called "better logo" would need as much work
> (or more) to be acceptable.

What . . . you prefer clutter?
Fd22ee3cfc7dac283ce8e451af324f7d?d=identicon&s=25 Chad Perrin (Guest)
on 2007-11-04 20:26
(Received via mailing list)
On Sun, Nov 04, 2007 at 05:40:35PM +0900, John Joyce wrote:
> It's actually quite amusing to read programmers' quibbling over
> graphic design...
> it's about like mom's arguing the merits of  an operating system...

Some of us have actually gone to school for digital graphic design.
1c0cd550766a3ee3e4a9c495926e4603?d=identicon&s=25 John Joyce (Guest)
on 2007-11-05 03:14
(Received via mailing list)
On Nov 4, 2007, at 1:20 PM, Chad Perrin wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 04, 2007 at 05:40:35PM +0900, John Joyce wrote:
>> It's actually quite amusing to read programmers' quibbling over
>> graphic design...
>> it's about like mom's arguing the merits of  an operating system...
>
> Some of us have actually gone to school for digital graphic design.
Sure, there's no doubt about that, but it's probably not the majority.
Most of the time developers and designers are in different skin.
852a62a28f1de229dc861ce903b07a60?d=identicon&s=25 Gavin Kistner (phrogz)
on 2007-11-05 03:53
(Received via mailing list)
On Nov 4, 2:25 am, mortee.li...@kavemalna.hu wrote:
> John Joyce wrote:
> > It's actually quite amusing to read programmers' quibbling over graphic
> > design...
> > it's about like mom's arguing the merits of  an operating system...
>
> There's a saying in my country: you don't have to be a shoemaker in
> order to know how your shoes hurt your leg. This is not to say that I
> agree or disagree with anything posted in this thread, just that even
> programmers may have valid points related to graphic design or anything
> else.

Indeed. Put far less succinctly:
http://phrogz.net/nodes/criticismwithoutasolution.asp
4c051ac68894a6535d9e1542df385fb4?d=identicon&s=25 Casimir (Guest)
on 2007-11-05 08:45
(Received via mailing list)
perrin@apotheon.com kirjoitti:
> On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 06:07:21PM +0900, Willem K??llman wrote:
>> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2176/1806344630_72e...
>
> Oh, that is *excellent*.
>
Hear, hear!
Ff9e18f0699bf079f1fc91c8d4506438?d=identicon&s=25 James Britt (Guest)
on 2007-11-05 09:59
(Received via mailing list)
Casimir wrote:
> perrin@apotheon.com kirjoitti:
>> On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 06:07:21PM +0900, Willem K??llman wrote:
>>> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2176/1806344630_72e...
>>>
>>
>> Oh, that is *excellent*.
>>
> Hear, hear!
>


Separated at birth?

http://ruby-doc.org/_img/logo-rubydoc.gif




--
James Britt

"I was born not knowing and have had only a little
  time to change that here and there."
  - Richard P. Feynman
6d3c187a8b3ef53b08e3e7e8572c4fea?d=identicon&s=25 Jeremy McAnally (Guest)
on 2007-11-05 15:34
(Received via mailing list)
I really like that too.  I wish a simple shape was chosen that is
versatile and workable in a lot of different settings.

But sais la vie.

--Jeremy

On Nov 5, 2007 3:53 AM, James Britt <james.britt@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> James Britt
>
> "I was born not knowing and have had only a little
>   time to change that here and there."
>   - Richard P. Feynman
>
>



--
http://www.jeremymcanally.com/

My books:
Ruby in Practice
http://www.manning.com/mcanally/

My free Ruby e-book
http://www.humblelittlerubybook.com/

My blogs:
http://www.mrneighborly.com/
http://www.rubyinpractice.com/
6d3c187a8b3ef53b08e3e7e8572c4fea?d=identicon&s=25 Jeremy McAnally (Guest)
on 2007-11-05 15:36
(Received via mailing list)
Likewise, some of us have been doing design for a number of years
(even a couple before we were programmers!  The horror!), and perhaps
have a bit of "sage" knowledge to share?

*sighs*

Never mind.  We're apparently all geek programmers with no sense of
style nor understanding of design principles, gestalt, or anything
else related to design whatsoever.

--Jeremy

On Nov 4, 2007 8:41 PM, John Joyce <dangerwillrobinsondanger@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Most of the time developers and designers are in different skin.
>
>
>



--
http://www.jeremymcanally.com/

My books:
Ruby in Practice
http://www.manning.com/mcanally/

My free Ruby e-book
http://www.humblelittlerubybook.com/

My blogs:
http://www.mrneighborly.com/
http://www.rubyinpractice.com/
703fbc991fd63e0e1db54dca9ea31b53?d=identicon&s=25 Robert Dober (Guest)
on 2007-11-05 16:29
(Received via mailing list)
On 11/5/07, Jeremy McAnally <jeremymcanally@gmail.com> wrote:
> I really like that too.  I wish a simple shape was chosen that is
> versatile and workable in a lot of different settings.
>
> But sais la vie.
c'est, you know ;)
R.
6d3c187a8b3ef53b08e3e7e8572c4fea?d=identicon&s=25 Jeremy McAnally (Guest)
on 2007-11-05 20:54
(Received via mailing list)
OH LOOK AT ME!  I KNOW FRENCH! ;)

Why did I put sais there?  That doesn't even make any sense.

*sigh*  I need a break.

--Jeremy

On Nov 5, 2007 10:16 AM, Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com> wrote:
> --
> what do I think about Ruby?
> http://ruby-smalltalk.blogspot.com/
>
>



--
http://www.jeremymcanally.com/

My books:
Ruby in Practice
http://www.manning.com/mcanally/

My free Ruby e-book
http://www.humblelittlerubybook.com/

My blogs:
http://www.mrneighborly.com/
http://www.rubyinpractice.com/
8f6f95c4bd64d5f10dfddfdcd03c19d6?d=identicon&s=25 Rick Denatale (rdenatale)
on 2007-11-06 15:04
(Received via mailing list)
On 11/5/07, Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/5/07, Jeremy McAnally <jeremymcanally@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I really like that too.  I wish a simple shape was chosen that is
> > versatile and workable in a lot of different settings.
> >
> > But sais la vie.
> c'est, you know ;)

Mais, je sais la vie. On doit savoir la vie pour dire <<c'est la vie!>>


--
Rick DeNatale

My blog on Ruby
http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/
997433f165140d58f52b8c0d1d005dc1?d=identicon&s=25 Patrick Aljord (patcito)
on 2007-11-06 15:37
(Received via mailing list)
On 11/6/07, Rick DeNatale <rick.denatale@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/5/07, Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 11/5/07, Jeremy McAnally <jeremymcanally@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I really like that too.  I wish a simple shape was chosen that is
> > > versatile and workable in a lot of different settings.
> > >
> > > But sais la vie.
> > c'est, you know ;)
>
> Mais, je sais la vie. On doit savoir la vie pour dire <<c'est la vie!>>

I think you meant:
Mais je connais la vie. Il faut connaître la vie pour pouvoir dire
<<c'est la vie>>.

Doesn't make much sense either though :)
355dfec2a7633db603db2a178bddb631?d=identicon&s=25 Eustáquio Rangel (Guest)
on 2007-11-07 02:07
(Received via mailing list)
Argh, sorry to post this again but I noticed now looking on my logs
that there were some failed requests while trying to show the image I
told about on my previous comment, which was
http://eustaquiorangel.com/images/ruby.png. I block loading of
external references to images so sometimes when trying to load the
image from an email on the first try it will refuse to show it, so I
made an HTML page with the image URL on it to avoid this problem:

http://eustaquiorangel.com/ruby.html

This is a logo I use on presentations and some other stuff about Ruby,
I have the SVG and it looks good when converted to grayscale. Sorry to
post about it twice, my fault. :-(
Ae4934509f3f81bf970dde18ffd6fad8?d=identicon&s=25 Xavier Belanche (xbelanch)
on 2007-11-09 19:19
Hi folks,
If you like to see the logo I made for the contest:
http://stu.pido.us/~xbelanch/ruby-logo5.png

Okay! its a "Rubbit", not appears the gem stone, but I think it's very
funny! like programming with Ruby! Yeah!

Thanks!
Xavier
Cb7c371146108bd4abc3c00e20ad1137?d=identicon&s=25 Mark T (Guest)
on 2007-11-25 02:51
(Received via mailing list)
I've had a few weeks to relax.
Recently I went to a speak by one of the founders of Tomato.
Here in Sydney it was part of 'Design Week'.
His speak was titled 'Ways of making thought into form'.
http://www.dhub.org/articles/1010

It appeared to be mostly a PR campaign to re-assure students there was
some talent in Aust. to look towards when clambering for a job.

Being at the 'uts', University of Technology it was distressing that
they could not get the tri-projection system to behave.
Anyways, the talk went ahead, John's an engaging speaker, tomato borne
of frustration of the market at the time.
A fearless concept breaking posse of designers in London years ago
bore the fruit of 'tomato'.
Very lateral thinking was the start & all of it.
They still have to work for the dough though.

Anyway,s one day they were in the board room of Sony with a proposal
for a net-device logo.
They concepted it to be dynamic.
It would change according to the sensor inputs of various devices all
'round the world.
The Sony.boss asked how it would be done.
They replied they did not know.
The rest of the board fell of chairs when the boss gave them the
contract to go do it.
It got done.
Whenever a Sony rep/empl. required use of inclusion of the logo, they
would dial up a url. Copy-paste.

Anyways, John W is one of few non-Japan members of the Tokyo Type
directors club.
At the speak there was an Xhibition of TTDC works submitted. Was good.

Anyways, the title of the speak was good. The message was lateral.
Lateral.
Astonishing to learn John W is color blind.

Much Respect to all.
Viva the change of govt. here in Aus.
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