Forum: Ruby Re: I need serious help!

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A5e54e3f14c6b1240d518c719aa2d0b4?d=identicon&s=25 Skt (Guest)
on 2007-07-13 05:21
(Received via mailing list)
Its an example of how to code one, and whys guide is free, so two birds.
Although i dont know if you'd want to just skip to it without reading
the guide a bit first.
43c1b1bd0749a241bfc143679748f9e1?d=identicon&s=25 Joe Wiltrout (wannabe-coder)
on 2007-07-13 05:26
Skt wrote:
> Its an example of how to code one, and whys guide is free, so two birds.
> Although i dont know if you'd want to just skip to it without reading
> the guide a bit first.

Ty. But why do you make a new topic for every post? If you can't find
the post button, just click post with quote, and delte the qoute.
90a73d9875462aaa9fab2feffafbffe7?d=identicon&s=25 Ben Bleything (Guest)
on 2007-07-13 22:11
(Received via mailing list)
On Fri, Jul 13, 2007, Joe Wiltrout wrote:
> Skt wrote:
> > Its an example of how to code one, and whys guide is free, so two birds.
> > Although i dont know if you'd want to just skip to it without reading
> > the guide a bit first.
>
> Ty. But why do you make a new topic for every post? If you can't find
> the post button, just click post with quote, and delte the qoute.

That's actually an artifact of the forum software.  You're actually
using a web interface to a mailing list, here, and ruby-forum has some
bugs.  Skt appears to be posting via email.  It's all showing up as the
same thread for me, in my mail client.

I'd like to also take this opportunity to throw my two cents in the mix.
I agree completely with the folks who are telling you to slow down and
go one step at a time.

To go from effectively no experience to trying to do graphics
programming in a language without intermediate steps is, frankly,
madness.  You need to learn the fundamentals before you can hope to
build a stable graphical game, much less a performant one.

If you're serious about game programming in Ruby, I think you'll find a
number of other people who are interested as well.  But you need to do
your homework, as it were, before you dive right in.  I'd suggest
starting by converting your game's mechanic into something that can be
played in text format, and building that.

This will give you a great deal of insight into the highs and lows of
your concept, as well as give you a pretty damn good familiarity with
the kinds of low-level Ruby code you'll need to write when you do the
graphical version.

Once that's done and you're happy with it, go back to your original
design and add the graphics layer.

Before any of that, though, you need to learn Ruby.  Others have given
you a lot of really good suggestions. _why's guide, the Pine book,
etc.  And, like James Gray said elsewhere, you need to get over your
resistance to search engines.  Relying on any community to get answers
to questions that are easily findable on Google will result in the
community losing their interest in helping you.

Cheers,
Ben
43c1b1bd0749a241bfc143679748f9e1?d=identicon&s=25 Joe Wiltrout (wannabe-coder)
on 2007-07-14 04:34
Ben Bleything wrote:

> I'd like to also take this opportunity to throw my two cents in the mix.
> I agree completely with the folks who are telling you to slow down and
> go one step at a time.
>
> To go from effectively no experience to trying to do graphics
> programming in a language without intermediate steps is, frankly,
> madness.  You need to learn the fundamentals before you can hope to
> build a stable graphical game, much less a performant one.
>
> If you're serious about game programming in Ruby, I think you'll find a
> number of other people who are interested as well.  But you need to do
> your homework, as it were, before you dive right in.  I'd suggest
> starting by converting your game's mechanic into something that can be
> played in text format, and building that.
>
> This will give you a great deal of insight into the highs and lows of
> your concept, as well as give you a pretty damn good familiarity with
> the kinds of low-level Ruby code you'll need to write when you do the
> graphical version.
>
> Once that's done and you're happy with it, go back to your original
> design and add the graphics layer.

> Cheers,
> Ben


I don't even get how to make anything work in Ruby. It all looks lke
gibberish. If I don't understand how Hello World thing works, how is it
suposed to help me learn how to make 3-d graphics and kick ass gameplay?
B8cfd5ec0f88bf5b5f2eedda7d1a0746?d=identicon&s=25 unknown (Guest)
on 2007-07-14 04:54
(Received via mailing list)
In message <b1bc7c132e5b9e54c2355c4c7ac63ea3@ruby-forum.com>, Joe
Wiltrout writes:
>I don't even get how to make anything work in Ruby. It all looks lke
>gibberish. If I don't understand how Hello World thing works, how is it
>suposed to help me learn how to make 3-d graphics and kick ass gameplay?

It's not.

You are going to have to understand it.  If you don't understand how
Hello
World works, you also don't understand all the other stuff -- or have
even the
basics you'd need to learn enough to understand them.

So you start with something small, and learn that.  And once you DO
understand
it, you can make progress.

-s
289cf19aa581c445915c072bf45c5e25?d=identicon&s=25 Todd Benson (Guest)
on 2007-07-14 04:58
(Received via mailing list)
On 7/13/07, Joe Wiltrout <wiltroutja@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Once that's done and you're happy with it, go back to your original
> > design and add the graphics layer.
>
> > Cheers,
> > Ben
>
>
> I don't even get how to make anything work in Ruby. It all looks lke
> gibberish. If I don't understand how Hello World thing works, how is it
> suposed to help me learn how to make 3-d graphics and kick ass gameplay?

Dude, learning how to program a game -- a large one at that -- doesn't
just drop into your lap like some golden egg; it doesn't sprinkle down
from the heavens like some magical faerie dust.  You asked for help.
Well, most of whom you seem to be calling 'inept' teachers are aces in
the field, and they expect you to meet them half way.  That's how you
learn.  Comprende?

You're obviously a creative person.  I'm sure you can figure out how
to use Ruby or any other language to do what you want if you give it
some time.

Todd
Fd22ee3cfc7dac283ce8e451af324f7d?d=identicon&s=25 Chad Perrin (Guest)
on 2007-07-14 08:17
(Received via mailing list)
On Sat, Jul 14, 2007 at 11:34:29AM +0900, Joe Wiltrout wrote:
>
> I don't even get how to make anything work in Ruby. It all looks lke
> gibberish. If I don't understand how Hello World thing works, how is it
> suposed to help me learn how to make 3-d graphics and kick ass gameplay?

That's the point.  If you don't understand how a Hello World program
works, *you need to learn at least that much* before you have any hope
of
understanding some more-complex programming techniques.  How about,
instead of complaining and insulting people for suggesting you learn how
to write a Hello World, you ask about how it works.
Dbf96a824a21a637466738120fcadb54?d=identicon&s=25 Craig Johnson (Guest)
on 2007-07-14 08:42
(Received via mailing list)
Joe's been told to go learn---he didn't like that answer.
Joe's been told to go ask his friends...
Joe's been given pointers to libraries and mod environments, in ruby to
use
to build games
Joe's been told about other choices.

Chad's response encapsulates this all.
take all that and go learn Joe...spend a little time...
It's NOT too hard...
Many have done it...that's the point...
you want a short cut, there really is none better then what you've been
given.

Go forth and code.
Daffd5e9382b6c872e5e670c4143ad3f?d=identicon&s=25 Joe Wiltrout (archerlad)
on 2007-07-16 00:27
Chad Perrin wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 14, 2007 at 11:34:29AM +0900, Joe Wiltrout wrote:
>>
>> I don't even get how to make anything work in Ruby. It all looks lke
>> gibberish. If I don't understand how Hello World thing works, how is it
>> suposed to help me learn how to make 3-d graphics and kick ass gameplay?
>
> That's the point.  If you don't understand how a Hello World program
> works, *you need to learn at least that much* before you have any hope
> of
> understanding some more-complex programming techniques.  How about,
> instead of complaining and insulting people for suggesting you learn how
> to write a Hello World, you ask about how it works.

ok. To humor you, I'll ask about how it works. How does the stupid Hello
World thing work? What exactly does it do? How can I apply it to making
a game? Say I wanted to make a pirate say Hello World!, how would I do
that? How would I make the pirate saying Hello World? What color should
his hat be? What is the Ultimate Question to the Ultimate Answer to
Life, the Universe, and Everything? Actually, don't tell me that. I
haven't finished reading the book yet.
Daffd5e9382b6c872e5e670c4143ad3f?d=identicon&s=25 Joe Wiltrout (archerlad)
on 2007-07-16 00:34
But do tell me, When will people put aside their hate for people more
talented than themselves, but perhaps with less knoledge about
particular subjects, so that they can both benefit from an allience? And
how will said parties get along when one party has no idea which of the
parties they really are? And when will the party spoken of in the
previous sentance learn his/her place in the Universe, learn to read,
and learn that some people don't care about the functions of Hello
World? Free psychology lesson. Study it until you understand how it
works. Re-write it until you can say it with your mouth closed. Then
make a homeless person with no education understand it. Then write a
book about it. Only then will you be able to take classes on psychology.
Fd22ee3cfc7dac283ce8e451af324f7d?d=identicon&s=25 Chad Perrin (Guest)
on 2007-07-16 00:44
(Received via mailing list)
On Mon, Jul 16, 2007 at 07:28:05AM +0900, Joe Wiltrout wrote:
> > understanding some more-complex programming techniques.  How about,
> > instead of complaining and insulting people for suggesting you learn how
> > to write a Hello World, you ask about how it works.
>
> ok. To humor you, I'll ask about how it works. How does the stupid Hello
> World thing work? What exactly does it do? How can I apply it to making
> a game? Say I wanted to make a pirate say Hello World!, how would I do
> that? How would I make the pirate saying Hello World? What color should
> his hat be? What is the Ultimate Question to the Ultimate Answer to
> Life, the Universe, and Everything? Actually, don't tell me that. I
> haven't finished reading the book yet.

At this point, I certainly don't want you to humor me.
B8cfd5ec0f88bf5b5f2eedda7d1a0746?d=identicon&s=25 unknown (Guest)
on 2007-07-16 00:50
(Received via mailing list)
In message <09afd7f9fa0a4cc0a523c9326350004e@ruby-forum.com>, Joe
Wiltrout writes:
>How can I apply it to making a game?

Let's say you were working on, say, WoW.  One of the things WoW does is
parse XML files.  When it does this, it prints messages to a log file.

If you don't know how to print messages, you can't do that.

Printing simple messages is one of those fundamental building blocks
that
you have to figure out to get started.

-s
B8cfd5ec0f88bf5b5f2eedda7d1a0746?d=identicon&s=25 unknown (Guest)
on 2007-07-16 00:53
(Received via mailing list)
In message <85a7a997a4ccc6b040caa812b87a2fb9@ruby-forum.com>, Joe
Wiltrout writes:
>But do tell me, When will people put aside their hate for people more
>talented than themselves, but perhaps with less knoledge about
>particular subjects, so that they can both benefit from an allience?

Well, the thing is, the world's full of people who THINK they're
talented.
Since I'm not expecting to live forever, I just talk to the ones who
are also polite, too.  Talking to people who are rude generally turns
out to be a waste of time I could have spent talking to people who
weren't.

-s
4299e35bacef054df40583da2d51edea?d=identicon&s=25 James Gray (bbazzarrakk)
on 2007-07-16 00:57
(Received via mailing list)
On Jul 15, 2007, at 5:28 PM, Joe Wiltrout wrote:

> How does the stupid Hello
> World thing work? What exactly does it do? How can I apply it to
> making
> a game? Say I wanted to make a pirate say Hello World!, how would I do
> that? How would I make the pirate saying Hello World? What color
> should
> his hat be?

#!/usr/bin/env ruby -wKU

class Pirate < Struct.new(:hat_color)
   def to_s
     <<-END_HELLO.gsub(/\s+/, " ")
     The #{self.class}#{", with the #{hat_color} hat," if hat_color}
     says, "Avast ye scavy dog!"
     END_HELLO
   end
end

puts Pirate.new
puts Pirate.new("fancy black")
# >>  The Pirate says, "Avast ye scavy dog!"
# >>  The Pirate, with the fancy black hat, says, "Avast ye scavy dog!"

__END__

James Edward Gray II
Fd22ee3cfc7dac283ce8e451af324f7d?d=identicon&s=25 Chad Perrin (Guest)
on 2007-07-16 01:09
(Received via mailing list)
On Mon, Jul 16, 2007 at 07:43:08AM +0900, Peter Seebach wrote:
> In message <85a7a997a4ccc6b040caa812b87a2fb9@ruby-forum.com>, Joe Wiltrout writes:
> >But do tell me, When will people put aside their hate for people more
> >talented than themselves, but perhaps with less knoledge about
> >particular subjects, so that they can both benefit from an allience?
>
> Well, the thing is, the world's full of people who THINK they're talented.
> Since I'm not expecting to live forever, I just talk to the ones who
> are also polite, too.  Talking to people who are rude generally turns
> out to be a waste of time I could have spent talking to people who weren't.

I agree.  Unfortunately, it seems we've both somehow been tricked into
talking to this particular rude person who thinks he's talented.
Perhaps, regardless of talent, he's actually smarter than us.  He was
able to trick us into responding to his trolling, after all.
4fea1ef11180adaaa299d503ca6010d0?d=identicon&s=25 John W. Kennedy (Guest)
on 2007-07-16 02:31
(Received via mailing list)
Joe Wiltrout wrote:
> But do tell me, When will people put aside their hate for people more
> talented than themselves, but perhaps with less knoledge about
> particular subjects, so that they can both benefit from an allience?

Seek professional help.

Now.
Daffd5e9382b6c872e5e670c4143ad3f?d=identicon&s=25 Joe Wiltrout (archerlad)
on 2007-07-16 02:47
Chad Perrin wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 16, 2007 at 07:43:08AM +0900, Peter Seebach wrote:
>> In message <85a7a997a4ccc6b040caa812b87a2fb9@ruby-forum.com>, Joe Wiltrout writes:
>> >But do tell me, When will people put aside their hate for people more
>> >talented than themselves, but perhaps with less knoledge about
>> >particular subjects, so that they can both benefit from an allience?
>>
>> Well, the thing is, the world's full of people who THINK they're talented.
>> Since I'm not expecting to live forever, I just talk to the ones who
>> are also polite, too.  Talking to people who are rude generally turns
>> out to be a waste of time I could have spent talking to people who weren't.
>
> I agree.  Unfortunately, it seems we've both somehow been tricked into
> talking to this particular rude person who thinks he's talented.
> Perhaps, regardless of talent, he's actually smarter than us.  He was
> able to trick us into responding to his trolling, after all.



And bingo was his name-o. I can't say I have general talent in
everything, but I am a hell of a linebacker, mathematitian (i know i
spelled it wrong), mechanic, video game player, Nazi, racist, 'troll'(in
your words), and person who writes generally confusing statements so the
reader has to look at them several times and wonder 'what did he mean by
that?' and then reads it 4 moer times and understands it so he begins to
compile an answer but then figures that I meant something else so he
goes and changes his answer and after he posts he he finds out he was
write the first time and was subconsiously trying to read my thoughts to
find out what I meant with my slippery ways so he changes his answer
because he thought thats just the kind of thing I would do but I had
actually planned on him doing that so he ended up getting the wrong
answer after all, and ended up posting unintentional flame bait.
Daffd5e9382b6c872e5e670c4143ad3f?d=identicon&s=25 Joe Wiltrout (archerlad)
on 2007-07-16 02:50
John W. Kennedy wrote:
> Joe Wiltrout wrote:
>> But do tell me, When will people put aside their hate for people more
>> talented than themselves, but perhaps with less knoledge about
>> particular subjects, so that they can both benefit from an allience?
>
> Seek professional help.
>
> Now.


Professional help with this programming BS. But I really don't want to
waste money on that sort of thing. And maybe professional help replacing
the carpet in my living room. And I'll go hire some Mexicans to put in
new cabinet doors. And then pretend to hire them, but when I give them a
ride in my pick-up truck, really take them to the Immigrations Office
and beep the horn several times. Then I might do the same thing, except
go off-roading to get there. Through an orange grove.
B8cfd5ec0f88bf5b5f2eedda7d1a0746?d=identicon&s=25 unknown (Guest)
on 2007-07-16 03:00
(Received via mailing list)
In message <d0f25b085e9431bb75950c45789cc13d@ruby-forum.com>, Joe
Wiltrout writes:
>Professional help with this programming BS.

I assumed it was for your obvious mental health issues.

-s
Fd22ee3cfc7dac283ce8e451af324f7d?d=identicon&s=25 Chad Perrin (Guest)
on 2007-07-16 09:42
(Received via mailing list)
On Mon, Jul 16, 2007 at 09:47:21AM +0900, Joe Wiltrout wrote:
> >> out to be a waste of time I could have spent talking to people who weren't.
> reader has to look at them several times and wonder 'what did he mean by
> that?' and then reads it 4 moer times and understands it so he begins to
> compile an answer but then figures that I meant something else so he
> goes and changes his answer and after he posts he he finds out he was
> write the first time and was subconsiously trying to read my thoughts to
> find out what I meant with my slippery ways so he changes his answer
> because he thought thats just the kind of thing I would do but I had
> actually planned on him doing that so he ended up getting the wrong
> answer after all, and ended up posting unintentional flame bait.

I think you've demonstrated a clear and distinct lack of talent for
recognizing subtle irony.
Fd22ee3cfc7dac283ce8e451af324f7d?d=identicon&s=25 Chad Perrin (Guest)
on 2007-07-16 09:45
(Received via mailing list)
On Mon, Jul 16, 2007 at 09:55:09AM +0900, Peter Seebach wrote:
> In message <d0f25b085e9431bb75950c45789cc13d@ruby-forum.com>, Joe Wiltrout writes:
> >Professional help with this programming BS.
>
> I assumed it was for your obvious mental health issues.

Someone in another subthread suggested he might be a sociopath.  I
really
don't think that's a very likely diagnosis.  Narcissistic personality
disorder is somewhat more likely than antisocial personality disorder,
in
this layman's opinion.  Of course, no diagnosis can really be made over
a mailing list with any certainty of accuracy or relevance.  It's
possible he doesn't have a diagnosable mental illness -- perhaps he's
just a self-centered little prick on his way to a rude awakening.
4cb1b1f1d8c0550cfa147acea5a9cce9?d=identicon&s=25 samvaknin (Guest)
on 2007-07-17 17:08
(Received via mailing list)
Hi,

For a more detailed view of pathological narcissism and the
Narcissistic
Personality Disorder (NPD) - click on these links:

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/npdglance.html

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/narcissismglance.html

Other Personality Disorders

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faqpd.html

Take care.

Sam
Efbf4770f9d25fc0c4cedbd30512e6e8?d=identicon&s=25 bgulian@gmail.com (Guest)
on 2007-07-18 19:19
(Received via mailing list)
On Jul 17, 9:41 am, samvaknin <pa...@unet.com.mk> wrote:
>
> Sam

Having made the mistake of reading this whole, sad thread yesterday
because this sort of thing rarely happens on the ruby-talk newsgroup
(comp.lang.javascript is notorious for this, the oldtimers would have
chopped Joe into a billion pieces on his first post), I have come to
the conclusion that you have hit the proverbial nail on the head,
Sam.  And like other manipulative personality disorders, this guy's
disease was able to suck in a lot of folks.

Thanks for the interesting links.

Bob
E854693b040a44118643011a9f174379?d=identicon&s=25 Clever Monkey (Guest)
on 2007-09-17 19:31
(Received via mailing list)
Joe Wiltrout wrote:
>>
>>
>> Once that's done and you're happy with it, go back to your original
>> design and add the graphics layer.
>
> I don't even get how to make anything work in Ruby. It all looks lke
> gibberish. If I don't understand how Hello World thing works, how is it
> suposed to help me learn how to make 3-d graphics and kick ass gameplay?
>
If you don't understand how "Hello World" works, how will you ever learn
anything?

And then the young programmer was enlightened.
--
clvrmnky <mailto:spamtrap@clevermonkey.org>

Direct replies will be blacklisted.  Replace "spamtrap" with my name to
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