# When are web frameworks needed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Ruby\ **Created:** [August 19, 2008, 6:11am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/when-are-web-frameworks-needed/146216 "2008-08-19T06:11:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![goodieboy](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/g/ecc23a/32.png) [@goodieboy](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/goodieboy)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 6:11am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/when-are-web-frameworks-needed/146216/1 "2008-08-19T06:11:34Z")
Hi, With the recent birth of Phusion Passenger (and Rack), I’m wondering if all of the Ruby web frameworks are as important as they used to be? I mean, you can now create a simple web app using ruby, AND easily deploy it, without a framework! I’ve been waiting forever to do this. My question is, what app requirements make it so that using a framework such as Rails/Merb is a good choice? What kind of app would do better as a standalone Rack/Passenger? (still using great gems like DataMapper, Hpricot etc. of course) As an example, I have a simple ecommerce site I need to develop. I’m thinking of using Passenger, DataMapper, ActiveMerchant and Erb. Would it be so terrible to whip up my own lightweight router and controller scheme for something like this? I can’t imagine the code to support the app would be more than a few hundred lines? Matt ---
**Author:** ![goodieboy](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/g/ecc23a/32.png) [@goodieboy](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/goodieboy)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/when-are-web-frameworks-needed/146216/2 "2008-08-19T18:34:49Z")
On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 9:07 PM, goodieboy [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) wrote: > As an example, I have a simple ecommerce site I need to develop. I’m > thinking of using Passenger, DataMapper, ActiveMerchant and Erb. Would > it be so terrible to whip up my own lightweight router and controller > scheme for something like this? I can’t imagine the code to support > the app would be more than a few hundred lines? Mostly that it’s a well-understood, rather routine problem that you’re solving again and again for little benefit. Why not just drop in Sinatra or one of the other lightweight frameworks and take advantage of the accumulated design and debugging effort. martin ---
**Author:** ![goodieboy](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/g/ecc23a/32.png) [@goodieboy](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/goodieboy)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/when-are-web-frameworks-needed/146216/3 "2008-08-19T19:20:01Z")
On 19 Aug 2008, at 17:27, Martin DeMello wrote: > Mostly that it’s a well-understood, rather routine problem that you’re > solving again and again for little benefit. Why not just drop in > Sinatra or one of the other lightweight frameworks and take advantage > of the accumulated design and debugging effort. Just because other people have already solved a problem doesn’t mean it’s not worth solving again in a different matter. I spent a very enjoyable month in 2006 writing a small web framework, and whilst I could have used Rails or Camping to do the same job it would probably have taken me as long to bend them to my will 🙂 Ellie ## Eleanor McHugh Games With Brains [http://slides.games-with-brains.net](http://slides.games-with-brains.net) raise ArgumentError unless @reality.responds\_to? :reason ---
**Author:** ![goodieboy](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/g/ecc23a/32.png) [@goodieboy](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/goodieboy)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 7:29pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/when-are-web-frameworks-needed/146216/4 "2008-08-19T19:29:58Z")
On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 10:15 AM, Eleanor McHugh [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) wrote: > > Mostly that it’s a well-understood, rather routine problem that you’re > > solving again and again for little benefit. Why not just drop in > > Sinatra or one of the other lightweight frameworks and take advantage > > of the accumulated design and debugging effort. > > Just because other people have already solved a problem doesn’t mean it’s > not worth solving again in a different matter. I spent a very enjoyable > month in 2006 writing a small web framework, and whilst I could have used > Rails or Camping to do the same job it would probably have taken me as long > to bend them to my will 🙂 Yeah, if your problem is to write a web framework and you have a new idea about it, that’s one thing, but if you’re just trying to get a webapp up I daresay you’re solving the same plumbing problems that the existing frameworks have solved already. martin