# Trip down memory lane **URL:** \ **Category:** Ruby\ **Created:** [November 8, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/trip-down-memory-lane/178634 "2009-11-08T15:33:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![David\_ASBlack](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/b4bc9f/32.png) [@David\_ASBlack](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/David_ASBlack)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/trip-down-memory-lane/178634/1 "2009-11-08T15:33:39Z")
Hi – I’ve been hunting through old RCRs, and came across my favorite rejected one: [http://oldrcrs.rubypal.com/rejected.html#rcr120](http://oldrcrs.rubypal.com/rejected.html#rcr120) 🙂 Still trying to find that map(:sym) one… David – The Ruby training with D. Black, G. Brown, J.McAnally Compleat Jan 22-23, 2010, Tampa, FL Rubyist [http://www.thecompleatrubyist.com](http://www.thecompleatrubyist.com) David A. Black/Ruby Power and Light, LLC ([http://www.rubypal.com](http://www.rubypal.com)) ---
**Author:** ![David\_ASBlack](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/b4bc9f/32.png) [@David\_ASBlack](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/David_ASBlack)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/trip-down-memory-lane/178634/2 "2009-11-08T15:41:50Z")
On Sun, 8 Nov 2009, David A. Black wrote: > Hi – > > I’ve been hunting through old RCRs, and came across my favorite > rejected one: > > [http://oldrcrs.rubypal.com/rejected.html#rcr120](http://oldrcrs.rubypal.com/rejected.html#rcr120) And its near-relation: [http://oldrcrs.rubypal.com/rejected.html#rcr94](http://oldrcrs.rubypal.com/rejected.html#rcr94) > 🙂 Still trying to find that map(:sym) one… Found it! See map(:sym) thread… David – The Ruby training with D. Black, G. Brown, J.McAnally Compleat Jan 22-23, 2010, Tampa, FL Rubyist [http://www.thecompleatrubyist.com](http://www.thecompleatrubyist.com) David A. Black/Ruby Power and Light, LLC ([http://www.rubypal.com](http://www.rubypal.com)) ---
**Author:** ![David\_ASBlack](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/b4bc9f/32.png) [@David\_ASBlack](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/David_ASBlack)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/trip-down-memory-lane/178634/3 "2009-11-08T17:06:43Z")
On 8 Nov 2009, at 15:41, David A. Black wrote: > [http://oldrcrs.rubypal.com/rejected.html#rcr94](http://oldrcrs.rubypal.com/rejected.html#rcr94) I always wanted [http://oldrcrs.rubypal.com/rejected.html#rcr2](http://oldrcrs.rubypal.com/rejected.html#rcr2) - but then again I also want goal direction to scratch my (un)icon itches 🙂 Ellie ## Eleanor McHugh Games With Brains [http://slides.games-with-brains.net](http://slides.games-with-brains.net) raise ArgumentError unless @reality.responds\_to? :reason ---
**Author:** ![David\_ASBlack](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/b4bc9f/32.png) [@David\_ASBlack](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/David_ASBlack)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/trip-down-memory-lane/178634/4 "2009-11-08T21:22:31Z")
On Sunday 08 November 2009 08:32:53 am David A. Black wrote: > Hi – > > I’ve been hunting through old RCRs, and came across my favorite > rejected one: > > [http://oldrcrs.rubypal.com/rejected.html#rcr120](http://oldrcrs.rubypal.com/rejected.html#rcr120) Actually, it looks like rcr124 was eventually accepted as BasicObject, right? I can see why rcr147 was rejected, but it’s not entirely without precedent – see .profile for sh and bash. And rcr169, I actually like. What if the exception was raised deep in another method, but it’s something you can handle? Also not without precedent, as Lisp has these. Not to re-open old discussions, I just thought it was interesting – especially #124, which was rejected, and is now implemented. Seems the rejection isn’t final. ---
**Author:** ![David\_ASBlack](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/b4bc9f/32.png) [@David\_ASBlack](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/David_ASBlack)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/trip-down-memory-lane/178634/5 "2009-11-08T22:47:23Z")
On Mon, 9 Nov 2009, David M. wrote: > On Sunday 08 November 2009 08:32:53 am David A. Black wrote: > > > Hi – > > > > I’ve been hunting through old RCRs, and came across my favorite > > rejected one: > > > > [http://oldrcrs.rubypal.com/rejected.html#rcr120](http://oldrcrs.rubypal.com/rejected.html#rcr120) > > Actually, it looks like rcr124 was eventually accepted as BasicObject, right? It’s a little different: the reason for rejection was: See technique used in delegate.rb for such purpose. as opposed to the reason for rejection of 120, which was: No, it should not. 🙂 Also, though I can’t remember the details, I seem to remember that Matz actually suggested that someone submit such an RCR so that he could comment definitively on the matter and spare everyone from revisiting the question over and over again. > I can see why rcr147 was rejected, but it’s not entirely without precedent – > see .profile for sh and bash. > > And rcr169, I actually like. What if the exception was raised deep in another > method, but it’s something you can handle? Also not without precedent, as Lisp > has these. True, but the business of precedents from other languages sort of cancels itself out, since it encompasses literally tens or hundreds of thousands of features, large and small. Of course lots of Ruby features are adopted or adapted from other languages; but I don’t think the presence of a feature or practice in another language, per se, militates in favor of its inclusion in Ruby. > Not to re-open old discussions, I just thought it was interesting – > especially #124, which was rejected, and is now implemented. Seems the > rejection isn’t final. I think the BasicObject concept (unlike the putting-class-names-in- method-signatures concept) was bubbling under the surface for a long time, and appeared in various incarnations, including the delegate.rb technique that Matz referred to as well as Jim W.'s BlankSlate class, before being adopted into the family tree. It wasn’t a case of something fundamentally out of character for the language. Not all RCR rejection is created equal 🙂 (And part of that, too, is of course that Matz can change his mind over time.) David – The Ruby training with D. Black, G. Brown, J.McAnally Compleat Jan 22-23, 2010, Tampa, FL Rubyist [http://www.thecompleatrubyist.com](http://www.thecompleatrubyist.com) David A. Black/Ruby Power and Light, LLC ([http://www.rubypal.com](http://www.rubypal.com)) ---
**Author:** ![David\_ASBlack](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/b4bc9f/32.png) [@David\_ASBlack](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/David_ASBlack)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/trip-down-memory-lane/178634/6 "2009-11-09T15:39:28Z")
On 9 Nov 2009, at 14:27, Brian C. wrote: > Eleanor McHugh wrote: > > > I always wanted [http://oldrcrs.rubypal.com/rejected.html#rcr2](http://oldrcrs.rubypal.com/rejected.html#rcr2) - but > > then again I also want goal direction to scratch my (un)icon > > itches 🙂 > > Is that more or less what Fiber is in 1.9 ? It could be viewed that way, however a closer analogue to icon’s usage would be for all blocks to be generators without recourse to an OO abstraction. However that’s an ancient argument and probably not worth reopening. Thinking about it though I could probably build an icon-style goal- directed evaluator using Fiber and wrap it in a DSL that would make coding with it feel very very similar. I’ll have to take a look at that when I have some free time to play with. Ellie ## Eleanor McHugh Games With Brains [http://slides.games-with-brains.net](http://slides.games-with-brains.net) raise ArgumentError unless @reality.responds\_to? :reason ---
**Author:** ![David\_ASBlack](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/b4bc9f/32.png) [@David\_ASBlack](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/David_ASBlack)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/trip-down-memory-lane/178634/7 "2009-11-09T14:27:22Z")
Eleanor McHugh wrote: > I always wanted [http://oldrcrs.rubypal.com/rejected.html#rcr2](http://oldrcrs.rubypal.com/rejected.html#rcr2) - but > then again I also want goal direction to scratch my (un)icon itches 🙂 Is that more or less what Fiber is in 1.9 ? ---
**Author:** ![David\_ASBlack](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/b4bc9f/32.png) [@David\_ASBlack](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/David_ASBlack)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/trip-down-memory-lane/178634/8 "2009-11-10T15:34:05Z")
On Sunday 08 November 2009 03:44:15 pm David A. Black wrote: > On Mon, 9 Nov 2009, David M. wrote: > > I can see why rcr147 was rejected, but it’s not entirely without > > precedent – see .profile for sh and bash. > > > > And rcr169, I actually like. What if the exception was raised deep in > > another method, but it’s something you can handle? Also not without > > precedent, as Lisp has these. > > True, but the business of precedents from other languages sort of > cancels itself out, since it encompasses literally tens or hundreds of > thousands of features, large and small. My point wasn’t that it had _ever_ been done, but that it had been done well, and had been found to be useful. For example, while I could simply include a list of environment variables somewhere, or tweak the bash commandline from /etc/passwd, it’s much more convenient to be able to use actual shell logic in /etc/profile and .profile to set those variables. Yes, it _can_ screw things up, if misused. I don’t think that’s a reason not to do it. Similarly, Lisp restarts, when I read [Practical Common Lisp](http://gigamonkeys.com/book), seemed to be really useful and something I’d miss in Ruby. In the book’s example, he’s got a log parser, with two restarts: parse-log-entry and skip-log-entry. That is, you could do something roughly equivalent to this: begin logfile = LogParser.parse(‘/some/file’) rescue LogParser::MalformedEntry entry = $!.text if entry =~ /some\_regex/ restart :reparse, entry.gsub(/some/, ‘substitution’) else restart :skip end end I’m not attached to that syntax (actually, the ‘restart’ in particular looks cumbersome), but the point is that this is much more flexible than something like this: LogParser.parse(‘/some/file’, :skip\_malformed =\> true, :fix\_bad\_entry =\> proc{| x| x.gsub(/some/, ‘substitution’)}) First, that’s not quite equivalent (and it’s a little ugly). Second, it’s much nicer to be able to actually separate the error handling logic. And finally, one of the main points of exceptions – to me, at least – is that you don’t need to have specific error-handling logic within each method that might throw an error. (This is something Java gets horribly wrong, by the way – having to manually specify “throws” almost defeats the purpose.) It means the error _will_ be handled, even if it’s somewhere much farther up the call stack, even if “handling” means aborting the program rather than letting an error be silently ignored. So, it makes sense that if the error actually can be corrected up the call stack, it should be. For example: def foo … LogParser.parse … … end begin foo rescue LogParser::MalformedEntry … end The closest thing we currently have is “retry”, which re-runs the entire block. Obviously, this isn’t a good idea if we’re halfway through a multi- gigabyte log, and it doesn’t help us actually correct the error. Am I missing something obvious? Maybe a design pattern which avoids this, or maybe a way to implement the equivalent without changing Ruby itself? > I think the BasicObject concept (unlike the putting-class-names-in- > method-signatures concept) was bubbling under the surface for a long > time… It wasn’t a case of > something fundamentally out of character for the language. Not all RCR > rejection is created equal 🙂 (And part of that, too, is of course > that Matz can change his mind over time.) That was the impression I got there. I was pointing it out partly just to make sure I wasn’t crazy, and that this was indeed a rejected BasicObject idea.