ThunkGen released!

Hei,

it’s cool, let’s not be grumpy about it. I’m sure Robert (Klemme)
didn’t want
to be mean. And he’s also kind of right :slight_smile:
Thanks a lot for the support, that little time I invested feels a little
less
wasted now.

Keep hacking!


Andrea D.
http://github.com/bolthar/freightrain
http://usingimho.wordpress.com

On Monday 05 April 2010 12:39:13 pm Robert D. wrote:

On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Andrea D. [email protected]

On 04/05/2010 01:28 PM, thunk wrote:

this is thunkalene, no oaths being broken

thunk thinks this may break the logjam of misunderstandings

http://wiki.github.com/gkoller/Ruids/categorization-the-secret-sauce-of-a-ruid

Tabulating, Scoring, Reporting, Summarizing, (Guiding drilldown,
changing the colors of icons) and such functions can be done without
Domain Specific Knowldeg – something to think about…… a Framework
could do usefull things for people, without a glimmer of
understanding of what it is working with.

Take any RDBMs combined with Crystal Reports, MS Excel or any other
reporting package and you have exactly that: a tool suite that can do
reports with zero knowledge about the nature of the data that is being
reported.

What is it that your package does better or different?

Kind regards

robert

and, and… “reports” - are the dumb shit automatic stuffs - they need
to be done before the fun stuff only.

this “satz” thing gives the computer something it needs, and can be
turned into sentences for the humans. fits into this. and rdms - wow

  • thunk forgot about those when he met couchDB - this is all OO & no
    AOO (Almost OO)

thunktocktor

100 percent ruby in a tight mass of dynamic power!

give them 100 blackboxes of boring stuff, them what they are looking
for, send them off…

in real-time, continually… over and over all day…

shopping baskets examined

quality issues to be caught from patterns (before?)

oh my, does excel to do that already?

ms couldn’t do what osborne/paperback back in the day.

then there are these “satz” and well, its just a lot of fun…

thunk is not a re-inventor, not on purpose… maybe it is for him to
become a walmart greeter instead of worrying about other people’s
shopping baskets (where the bright idea came from and Jen jenson of
voicehero’s said “vow”

Hei,

there was absolutely no intent to offend anyone from my side: i
believe thunk
himself understood that and i also think he took the joke with the right
spirit. You will have to concede me that, while my prank was surely a
little
sour, thunk went a great deal to deserve it :slight_smile:
Anyway, I agree with you on the fact that making fun of someone just to
have a
laugh at it is despicable. I just think this was not the case.

Best!


Andrea D.
http://github.com/bolthar/freightrain
http://usingimho.wordpress.com

Robert,

thunk is no guru but perhaps some of the “intuitive” excitement of
things that could be done with this comes from the fact that the
Ru’ids are distributable. This is understood in his primitive way
from years of DOS based multi-layererd but pre-webland things of a
somewhat similar nature without a depth of web-era specific do-
thingings that cannot be all that different.

The concept of an “Expert session” using the same central class as the
run-time ru’ids and all kinds of dynamic mischief seems - ahh , put
that ego down boy - “interesting”

thunktocktor

had thunk been a troll, real or inadvertant

then he would deserve stones, arrows, and any device of thereof

without anything to sell, without even a framework to give away, and
mostly eerily not seeming to care about guru status candidateshipness
he was most certain a outlier…

let him ramble???

ya, thanks, we had a customer that was doing studies for a new jet
model. reflexes. they ran an ad. folks showed up. studies got
made. and they puzzled the bejezzus out of all the experts -

well, not to bore, but a surprising portion of those ersatz turned out
to be winos (without reflexes) - true story - who could make THAT up??

ahhhh,

The point about “satz” could have been lost, so sorry. Let’s say this
super succinctly:

satz are just simple “hashes”
satz follow simple conventions
satz hang out in methods in an array with their siblings

satz are understandable by computers -

satz make for much more interesting output than the report-writers
written by thunk in circa 1982 - (for mcGraw-hill) AS they can be
turned into
Techlish or TechDeutsch or you name it - the valuable stuff are
symbols and those symbols are keys to the a yet unexplored land (for
the author anyway)…

and the author looked up tuples a couple of times now and they don’t
make sense to him. and since this works, and since is silly simple,
and since he is seeing what he calls “worksheets” which elbow past
“reports” and consider themselves to be of another nature than reports

  • reports have been done - oh wow, but the author could really write
    a book on that.

not to over-advertise on these satz! no. they just are making the
worksheets do things the author never thought he could do before. try
turning a bunch of rdms stuff into readable sentences?!? has MS found
a way to do that? then its not the MS the author knew.

thunktocktor

Aldric G. wrote:

thunk wrote:

ahhhh,

The point about “satz” could have been lost, so sorry. Let’s say this
super succinctly:

satz are just simple “hashes”
satz follow simple conventions
satz hang out in methods in an array with their siblings

“Satz” means “thing” in German. I believe explaining this single thing
makes it much simpler.

Gasp! I have an itchy “Send” finger. I apologize for the typo! Please do
not flagellate me.
http://dictionary.reverso.net/german-english/Satz

Essentially, a sentence, or a clause. Something similar to that.

thunk wrote:

ahhhh,

The point about “satz” could have been lost, so sorry. Let’s say this
super succinctly:

satz are just simple “hashes”
satz follow simple conventions
satz hang out in methods in an array with their siblings

“Satz” means “thing” in German. I believe explaining this single thing
makes it much simpler.

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Aldric G. [email protected]
wrote:

“Satz” means “thing” in German. I believe explaining this single thing
makes it much simpler.
You must be kidding
Satz means amongst others, sentence, theorem, set (in tennis as well
as regading a collection of objects) thing, I really cannot come up
with a context for this.
Cheers
R.

Aldric G. wrote:

Aldric G. wrote:

thunk wrote:

ahhhh,

The point about “satz” could have been lost, so sorry. Let’s say this
super succinctly:

satz are just simple “hashes”
satz follow simple conventions
satz hang out in methods in an array with their siblings

“Satz” means “thing” in German. I believe explaining this single thing
makes it much simpler.

Gasp! I have an itchy “Send” finger. I apologize for the typo! Please do
not flagellate me.
http://dictionary.reverso.net/german-english/Satz

Essentially, a sentence, or a clause. Something similar to that.

That correct but there’s a second meaning, although much less frequently
used. We Germans may say: “Das ist ein Satz Buchstaben” and aren’t
talking about sentences. The translated sentence is: “That’s a set of
letters”.

I think that meaning is more accurate here.

Marvin

buchstaben?!

Das Wort entstand wahrscheinlich aus den germanischen, zum Los
bestimmten Runenstäbchen (*bōks). Diese als Runen bezeichnete
Schriftzeichen wurden damals oft mittels Punzieren in Waffen, aber
auch in Stäbchen aus dem harten und schweren Holz der Buche geritzt.
Die derart beschriebenen Stäbchen benutzten die Germanen als Orakel
für wichtige Entscheidungen und nach einer Theorie leitet sich deshalb
das Wort „Buchstabe“ von diesen kultisch bedeutsamen Buchen-Stäbchen
ab. Nach einer anderen Theorie geht der Ausdruck „Buchstabe“ auf den
kräftigen Zentralstrich der Runen zurück, mit dem sie jeweils gebildet
werden. [1]

the author remembers puzzling on this in his highschool german class,
where he was about the only non-fluent german in the bunch. his
grandparents thought they spoke german, but it turned out to be some
dialect that didn’t gain the author any respect :slight_smile: just really weird
looks when it was his turn to speak.

it was his first real challenge, or so his saga might read…

he literally fell into the “Nebulungen” / poetry / sagas and such.
imagine reading detailed descriptions of ancient sagas with nothing
but a smattering of things like “wash cloths”, “table”, “walls”, cats,
dogs and such as that… ?? it was a strange/wonderful experience
he can read almost anything these days but can’t speak, but thinks he
can after enough beer.

on a serious note:

Seriously I do not know what this is either. I am not an experienced
progammer, as mentioned I was doing report-writers for McGraw-Hill in
the early 80’s (because Fixed Assets needed 30 plus reports and
floppies were not going to hold anything else. Also screen
generators, our own db, and you just name it all, ol thunk invented it
because nothing but nothing was available in UCSD Pascal despite all
the dreams.)

I showed up here thinking the defining unit was a “Boid” but that
drags in too much AI baggage and this is not that, yet.

The ABS stuff seemed to be doing some similar things but looked like
something legacy like and smelled of c crud.

Actors seem clearly more “sophisticated” but, as of this moment, and
this is evolving as I get pinged here, it seems like the best fit.

A Ru’id does not seem to be nearly as powerful as an Actor. A ru’id
commands the stage for 0.0005 sec and is gone, only the “casing”
remains.

However, what the Ru’id lacks in Actor abilities, perhaps it gains
from simplicity, (distributability??), simple authorability and such
as these characteristics?

That is the author’s best guess right now.

NEXT STEP - if there is to be one -

well, one offer on the table would be to bring the whole thing to some
trusted 3rd party and take a good look at it. no consulting fees,
this is not about that. but it is also not about taking time away
from the doable to talk about the meaning of distributed, ok?, the
ultimate thing would be to put this whole thing into a demo version
planted in the Heroko gardens and let everybody author sets of these
things to see what they can do. the author is not capable of that by
himself. the author can’t imagine being at the center of a gitHub
club.

or the author really needs to get back to his work…

thunktoktor

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 8:41 PM, Marvin Gülker [email protected] wrote:

satz hang out in methods in an array with their siblings

“Satz” means “thing” in German. I believe explaining this single thing
makes it much simpler.

or a jump. Maybe we have covered most common usages now :wink:

Here’s a problem space which may fit the description of the thunkaTron.

The set of browsers available increases each month.
Some are derivatives of a common code base.
Though these can have different javascript engines.
So across the javascript implementations, there are many differences.
There have been attempts to shim these.
Could a swarm of boids be sent flying around web sites:

  1. Gain an element location, pick up the ‘twig’ = ‘URL + xpath’.
  2. Return this to a set of browser proxies.
  3. Take the result to a ‘nest’ where growing javaBoids eat at the
    edges until a single rule is obtained which:
    Results in a shim routine which normalizes the behavior of a script.
    The path of javascript over the next 5-10 years, coupled with the
    xhtml (svg) + javascript could do with such a project.

Boids or no boids.

MarkT

The original Thunkatron “problem space” was the “Is this a ‘system’”
and if so, then what can we tell the shopping basket person?

That “problem space” seems to be totally untapped but the thunk
appreciates the problem much better - real expertise is needed.

Real expertise and experience is floating around out there. There are
likely 1000 computer junkies plugged into a forum this moment doing
their geeky things and slinging bloblets of text at each other.

One of the most particular ways that these things ru’ids seem
interesting is this:

=================
The thunk cannot see why a “Knowledge Farm” could not be built
parallel to any technical forum about anything that resembles a
“system”.

Read that carefully? This is a favorite “gedankengang” - (??) -
thought path for the author, NOT his field of major interest, not his
expertise, not his paygrade. But something the old thunker keeps
going to, to push and pull ideas around and play “what if”, “why not”,
“wtf - why haven’t those very bright guys with all their very bright
tools, started doing this yet”

OK? Its a question I have, it is not crystal clear, crystal clear
is for past tense. Like the war in Afganistan - the president of
thunkastan did not threaten to join the enemy today - his problem
domain is much simpler :slight_smile:

Take a gedankengang with the author??

Instead of 20 postings zinging right and left, and often at each
other, lets visualize that the people here could “author a ru’id” by
simply doing not too much more than a click, and then answering a
series of multiple choices. And when he is done, in LESS time than is
spent composing many postings - instead of another bloblet of text -
there is in “problem space” - SOMEWHERE - a new ru’id that does
basically no more, and no less than the Ru’ids the author is playing
with.

Now - the next time a posting is made on such a thing as:

:PROGRAMMING, :LEARNING, :DKJAKS_SLKDJFKD

all the Ruids of the Universe known play in this “problem space” get
“fired” at the subject. Nothing may happen, but one or one hundred
may “hit”. The hits form a pattern (if there are a quantity of hits)

  • now the question writer is presented with a table/dashboard of the
    hits with colors, and icons and that kind of stuff - (automatic).
    This dashboard is PASSIVE, not in your face flashing and stupid
    advertising or that sort of thing, it says basically that your
    question has been “HIT” there is a pattern, if you would rather look
    at the results, at any level of detail, than proceed with your
    question then be our guest.

This is NOT the author’s favorite Gedangengang, this is NOT the
author’s direct field of expertise, IT IS ONLY SOMETHING HE CANNOT
FIGURE AN ANSWER TO.

ok?

thunktocktor

and nothing has to happen to that ru’id for it to become a part of a
system that is continually “fired! at” every new posting. Authors are
sorted and given ranks by “merito-tology” / secret meetings / politico
points / inverse to spelling errors or whatever the bright people
behind all this think is should be. (oh boy, that’s a sleeper)

Conceptually the ru’ids are not “flying around” rather they much more
like a BULLET (metaphore #103, sorry) but that is true. The hit the
target or they don’t. Oh. Like a light wave - that fits, and recently
a nifty phrase pinged the author’s gedanker, something like “shadow
caster” and a flag got attached to that, a not got made on a wiki-
page, and the author was accused of rambling too long… it was a
suspended idea shoved into text… how to explain?

Bullets seem not so peaceful, but excuse the author for a moment, and
let him share? - not an unfascinating gedangengang partner?
A modern machinegun can “caste” (like stones… wow) bullets in such a
way that square meters are covered in seconds. now, if they were less
menacing and smart enough to send a message back… then a
helicopter could bullet caste objects of interest and build an image
of what the target was. ahhhh, light does that too, right? so these
Ru’ids are about the speed of a bullet, less harmful, they-come-in-
peace! , but they “form an image” of what they are thrown at by way of
very simple communications… it’s a shame bullets cannot do the
same yet.

OK?

The author was in “Blue Sky Research” where we did “brain storming”
and some of that has never gone away - it is a technique that has
probably been renamed in problem space but in such sessions you don’t
inhibit thoughts. No, stream of consiousness did not “die” with Joyce

  • do you know who Robin Williams is? Oh boy. that man can caste
    thoughts… puff the magic comedian - git it?

thunktocktor

another shot from the side on this:

a swarm/collection of Ru’ids could be partially of as:

===============
a set of pre-trained “scanners”, EACH of which has a set of simple web-
online-authored mission specific instructions.

there is something with “broadcasting” going on here.
there is something with “shadow casting” going on here - debriefing -
“xray images”

there is a strong hint of distributed - the expert is in Milwaukee,
the Ru’id weblet he’s communicating with while authoring - is in
Berlin - and that’s JUST the start - it would be distributed from
there - after vetting - or as a young candidate in waiting - to
regional hospitals in Israel and Boston and so on - immediately - no
hands touching anything - no special excel programs - no crystal
reports - nothing like that.

So bottom.line the Ru’id was generated upon seeing an EVENT of
significance to an EXPERT in Milwaukee, and 10 minutes or so later,
somebody “interested” / prepared to respond to that same lesson /
event could be NOTIFIED (via email / text message) per his settings on
His /its “personally tuned SwarmReader”.

and yes this is done with RSS or whatever, i know, but then so are
reports - maybe the “key-key-key” is the ease and compactness and
automatic-ness of it all?

whew. I’m not going to even re-read than for a couple of hours.

Every distributed to center would have to have a “SwarmReader”.
Alarms could go off, or an icon could go from green to yellow in a
dashboard like manner.

All this stuff together is like 4,000 lines before you start adding
the Ru’ids.

and that, seems “distributed”, to the author, now that he thinks about
it :slight_smile:

the “docking” with the Helper_class gives the ru’id his window to the
world - the ru’id just gives the system a set of scripted instructions
(DSL) to follow in his 0.00005 (or so) sec on the stage. (so far
ru’ids have made only 2-5 assertions)

the ru’id might have learn, for example that the CPU and the
Motherboard in the customers “shopping basket” are not compatible.
this little “factoid” has no particular meaning unless the entire
contents of a shopping basket has been determined to be a single
system. if the customer has 3 systems in there, and for example, no
CPU matches with any Motherboard then… but that’s there passively
at the first level.

The “swarm_reader” could make sense of this and look up the shopping
habits of the customer, consult the statistical universe of all
shoppers, call the client, send the client a email with or without a
WTF? subject title depending on his age, and humor threshold.

On Apr 6, 12:19 am, Mark T [email protected] wrote:

  1. Take the result to a ‘nest’ where growing javaBoids eat at the
    edges until a single rule is obtained which:
    Results in a shim routine which normalizes the behavior of a script.
    The path of javascript over the next 5-10 years, coupled with the
    xhtml (svg) + javascript could do with such a project.

Boids or no boids.

MarkT

Damned!

That’s what “boids” can do? Seriously? I thought you were making fun
of thunk at first.

Way Short ans: no.

More thoughtful short ans: yes

Explain? I think I like “ru’ids” as part of this tightly packed
“100% ruby set of modules”. There is messynesses in this already - a
demo requires a weblet - and that weblet would really help all this
make sense. I don’t want to “over advertise” this, seriously, but the
“ru’id” is born distributed to be distributed and to be a small part
of this bundle that can use them on any machine that can execute ruby,
anywhere, over and over, I guess, or once an hour, or once a day. it
is - maybe - more about “signals” and “broadcasting”
than …??? … this would be nice to chat about with
some professor someplace.

a ru’id is trained to respond in a scrpted way to some particular set
of keys… like the example above. “it” leaves a coded mssg that
the swarm_reader must decode. its all a tight “bundle” of dynamic
action - lots of reflection - the “magic” comes from how simple it is
to take a urRuid and get it ready to go on it’s mission - which is
basically “to listen” - think about instructions to a wwII pilot as a
part of a set of planes going on a single misssion - his instructions
could be:

follow your usual guy
use your usual handle
follow in the usual formation
report anything interesting (what ain’t water)

or - “do it again, fly boy” might be all he needs to hear

the urRu’id has all the otherstuff, and the pilot gets that free.

AND why are you doing “Boids” on the author?? you teasing/testing
him?

======================

could a Ru’id do that?? let them watch “TopGun” a few times, and
watch out?!

seriously, they could get fibered and go on much longer missions - and
that would raise the consulting fees but that’s not what they were
born to do.

Perhaps, however, if building a nest of shim-sticks (?) is worth
something more than bombarding NewEgg shopping baskets - then who am I
to say - I can say that would seem to be more fun! that what the
author is doing now - but getting something done rather than writing
about it also is a consideration.

thunktocktor

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