On Mon, Sep 24, 2007 at 11:27:19PM +0900, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
friendliest programmer communities on the Internet!"
And when did Ruth leave the community? Please don’t tell me Grace left too!
I’ve been Ruthless my whole life. I’ve only been Graceless since she
dumped me in 2003.
On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 21:36:09 +0900, Paul B. wrote:
Seriously, though, any move that falls outside the troll’s script is a
valid move.
Purple!
On Sep 24, 8:01 am, “M. Edward (Ed) Borasky” [email protected]
wrote:
Well … if the bitwise operations are built into the “scripting
language”, why shouldn’t they be used? It’s not like you have to make
them up by converting the bytes to floating point values, converting
them to an array of floating point ones and zeroes and doing ANDs and
ORs on them with floating point equality tests in IF statements!
It’s a question of scale. I’d certainly use it on a small file.
But as we’ve all seen, using it on a 20-megabyte file will make one
wish he’d used a faster language.
i find this thread interesting enough without all the ‘troll’ remarks.
(ie comments like chad perrin ; relevant professional remarks)
tia 
On Sep 24, 12:12 am, “Michael T. Richter” [email protected]
wrote:
Can I ask why ANYBODY took a message by someone calling themselves
“Ruby M.” and using expressions like “cute language” as anything but
a troll? Anybody? Anybody? Bueller?Don’t dignify these kinds of things with responses, peeps.
I think the o.p. isn’t exactly a troll. I think he is simply young,
naive,
inexperienced, and presumptuous. There seems to be some honesty in
his
posts.
On 9/24/07, Paul B. [email protected] wrote:
movie goes, is not to play the game.
hominem attack that can reduce your own credibility over time.
Paul
What do you have against trolls, did you not here about the newest
revelations about Koom valley ?
Sorry I could not resist; for those who do not read all Terry
Pratchett books ;)…
I am not sure if there is any better strategy than ignoring them,
there are sometimes of course very serious and valid posts because
some people do not think it is a troll in the first place and starting
a discussion about what to do about trolls in the troll’s thread might
be counter productive.
I tend to ignore them, and sometimes I throw in a “Don’t feed the
troll” when I feel it is appropriate (carries information for the
replier).
After all if the troll gets some food the thread becomes
uninteresting…
Sometimes I try to warn people not to lose their time, but it is
their time anyway.
Cheers
Robert
On 9/24/07, Shai R. [email protected] wrote:
i find this thread interesting enough without all the ‘troll’ remarks.
(ie comments like chad perrin ; relevant professional remarks)
Shai I believe this is indeed why we worry about getting trolls down,
they might shadow some interesting poi. Without that they could be
ignored as a minor nuisance.
Now that other thread might not even qualify as a troll thread ( I
believe it does but it is quite borderline ).
tia
zio
Cheers
Robert
From: “William J.” [email protected]
naive, inexperienced, and presumptuous. There seems to be some honesty
in his posts.
Yes, I got the same impression - until he made this claim:
If I wanted blazing performance I would write Aseembly Language (been
there and done that back in the day when 8 bits was all there was) but
one must commit a lot of time to hand-crafting Assembly code and most
of the time I just don’t have that much time to spend writing code.
Incidentally, a Google search reveals that someone having his email
address has caused something of a ruckus in another online community:
http://www.coldfusionjedi.com/index.cfm/2006/1/17/Grabbing-the-Bull-by-the-Horns
http://www.firemoss.com/blog/index.cfm?mode=entry&entry=D87EDD28-E081-2BAC-69B923575744C5F4
Regards,
Bill
On 9/24/07, Chad P. [email protected] wrote:
I’ve been Ruthless my whole life. I’ve only been Graceless since she
dumped me in 2003.
C’on Chad please correct this false second sentence ;).
Cheers
Robert
On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 03:50:07AM +0900, Robert D. wrote:
On 9/24/07, Chad P. [email protected] wrote:
I’ve been Ruthless my whole life. I’ve only been Graceless since she
dumped me in 2003.
C’on Chad please correct this false second sentence ;).
No, really. I dated someone named Grace. She dumped me in 2003.
What’s
so false about that?
On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 01:08:43AM +0900, Shai R. wrote:
i find this thread interesting enough without all the ‘troll’ remarks.
(ie comments like chad perrin ; relevant professional remarks)
I’m afraid I’m not entirely clear on your meaning in your parenthetical
comments. Please rephrase for me, if you don’t mind.
If I’m just missing the obvious intent, I blame my headache.
From: “Chad P.” [email protected]
On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 01:08:43AM +0900, Shai R. wrote:
i find this thread interesting enough without all the ‘troll’ remarks.
(ie comments like chad perrin ; relevant professional remarks)I’m afraid I’m not entirely clear on your meaning in your parenthetical
comments. Please rephrase for me, if you don’t mind.
My impression was that Shai had found value in posts such as yours
( http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/270601 )
and that Shai was pointing out that the meta discussion about
responding to trolls was essentially adding noise to the thread.
Regards,
Bill
Bill K. wrote:
I think the o.p. isn’t exactly a troll. I think he is simply young,
naive, inexperienced, and presumptuous. There seems to be some honesty
in his posts.Yes, I got the same impression - until he made this claim:
If I wanted blazing performance I would write Aseembly Language (been
there and done that back in the day when 8 bits was all there was) but
one must commit a lot of time to hand-crafting Assembly code and most
of the time I just don’t have that much time to spend writing code.
Speaking as someone who spent a good portion of his career writing
assembly language, I can assure you that every assembly language
programmer ends up creating “domain-specific languages”, libraries,
object frameworks, design patterns, etc. They may not have called them
that back in the “good old days”, but that’s in fact what they were.
Assembly language programming has a bad reputation, unjustified in my
opinion. And please, don’t say, “C is an assembler language”. It isn’t
– it’s a high-level Algol derivative with pointers, indirect addressing
and bit-diddling, but it isn’t an assembly language.
And I can remember a time well before “8 bits was all there was”. The
smallest thing you could call a digital computer had 12-bit words, It
took some serious genius to make 4-bit and 8-bit computers.
Bill K. wrote:
I’ve dabbled in a number of languages, but I’ve written actual
production code in assembler, Forth, C, C++, Objective-C, Java,
Perl, Python, Ruby, and (kill me now) VB6.
Hi,
Thanks for the well written post. Can you give a little more insight
into how you came to be using ruby as your programming language of
choice instead of any of the other languages you mentioned. I know why
you might choose ruby over C/C++ or Java, but what lead you to choose
ruby over python, which as far as I can tell is ruby’s closest neighbor.
Thanks.
On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 06:55:13AM +0900, Bill K. wrote:
( http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/270601 )
and that Shai was pointing out that the meta discussion about
responding to trolls was essentially adding noise to the thread.
Thank you. Looking at it again, your interpretation seems an obvious
one
in retrospect.
It’s definitely the headache.
. . . and thanks as well to Shai.
On Tue, 2007-25-09 at 12:53 +0900, 7stud – wrote:
Thanks for the well written post. Can you give a little more insight
into how you came to be using ruby as your programming language of
choice instead of any of the other languages you mentioned. I know why
you might choose ruby over C/C++ or Java, but what lead you to choose
ruby over python, which as far as I can tell is ruby’s closest neighbor.
I’m not Bill, but I can give you a data point related to the one you’re
looking for. I’m a former Python user and (local) evangelist. Way back
when Ruby was still 0.9.something, I was using Python in my work and at
home all the time. I was doing the former, in fact, despite a company
directive saying that we should only be using C++, VB (since I was
writing a VB toolkit at the time) and tcl, of all things. (Java was
being added at the end of my tenure in that position.) I did this
because I found Python easy to program in and especially well-suited to
the kinds of code generation I had to do to fill out all the crappy
boilerplate that dominates C/C++/Java code. It was also well-suited to
driving tests.
I dropped Python because of its community.
When I started with Python – back about v1.2 or 1.3 – the Python
community was mostly friendly and helpful. It was a joy to be in. It
changed and it changed dramatically over time. Now I see a coterie of
people who basically sneer at anybody who isn’t in their circle and who
are utterly intolerant of viewpoints not their own. And, as you can
often see in Ruby circles, they have an alarming tendency to go to other
communities to do their sneering. The friendly, warm, vibrant community
surrounding a decent language – and I still do think Python is a good
language; I’m probably unusual among Rubistas for this – vanished over
the years and was replaced by people I really didn’t want anything to do
with.
As a language I think Ruby is slightly (and only slightly) better than
Python. It has many strengths over Python – especially with its
metaprogramming capabilities – but it also has several weaknesses
(beginning with performance and library availability). I would not be
upset if I had to program in Python professionally, but I would also not
be upset if I had to program in Ruby professionally either.
What makes Ruby a winner over Python for me is its community. It is
(mostly) friendly and (mostly) welcoming of new people and thoughts.
And while the constantly-moving target of the language can be a bit
frustrating, it’s also a bit exhilarating to be there as the language
develops and matures. To be there while the community crystallizes and
matures. So for me the big thing that made me switch to Ruby was the
respective set of communities.
Michael T. Richter wrote:
I dropped Python because of its community.
When I started with Python – back about v1.2 or 1.3 – the Python
community was mostly friendly and helpful. It was a joy to be in. It
changed and it changed dramatically over time. Now I see a coterie of
people who basically sneer at anybody who isn’t in their circle and who
are utterly intolerant of viewpoints not their own. And, as you can
often see in Ruby circles, they have an alarming tendency to go to other
communities to do their sneering. The friendly, warm, vibrant community
surrounding a decent language – and I still do think Python is a good
language; I’m probably unusual among Rubistas for this – vanished over
the years and was replaced by people I really didn’t want anything to do
with.
Yes, I see that too. Despicable behavior. Thanks for the insights.
On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 02:03:19PM +0900, Michael T. Richter wrote:
surrounding a decent language – and I still do think Python is a good
language; I’m probably unusual among Rubistas for this – vanished over
I don’t know about that. I’ve seen a lot of indications, during my
on-again/off-again subscription to ruby-talk over the last few years,
that many of the members of this community have a fair bit of respect
for
Python the language. I personally find Python eye-stabbingly hard on my
aesthetic sense and programming preferences, but even I think Python is
a
good language. It’s just not a good language for me, and I suspect
that’s what many Rubyists here think as well (though maybe a little less
vehemently than me).
7stud – wrote:
into how you came to be using ruby as your programming language of
choice instead of any of the other languages you mentioned. I know why
you might choose ruby over C/C++ or Java, but what lead you to choose
ruby over python, which as far as I can tell is ruby’s closest neighbor.Thanks.
And why did you stop using Forth? Is there really a way to break the
addiction? 
Wilson B. wrote:
Some corrections:
- YARV is ‘out’, in the form of Ruby 1.9. A stable release is coming
in a matter of months.
A stable development release. As I understand it, 1.9.1 will still be
considered “unstable” as far as release cycles go…
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