# Tattle - The Ruby Census **URL:** \ **Category:** Ruby\ **Created:** [January 8, 2007, 10:01pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/tattle-the-ruby-census/81407 "2007-01-08T22:01:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Chad_F)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2007, 10:01pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/tattle-the-ruby-census/81407/1 "2007-01-08T22:01:49Z")
Greetings and Happy New Year, Rubyists! At the first Rails Edge conference ([http://therailsedge.com](http://therailsedge.com)), Jim Weirich, Bruce W., and I were chatting about how to improve the RubyGems platform-specific behavior, when we realized that it would be really helpful to have more info about the install footprint of the Ruby community at large. So instead of going right into hacking RubyGems as was our plan, we created a little census tool and an accompanying web site to help us collect information. Most of the info we collect is from Config::CONFIG, with the addition of the RubyGems version. We know this information will help the implementers of RubyGems, and we hope it will also help Ruby implementers and library developers as well. To install: $ sudo gem install tattle To submit your info: $ tattle If you want to see what would be posted before posting, you can do: $ tattle report The information gets posted to [http://tattle.rubygarden.org](http://tattle.rubygarden.org). You can view the posted data with your web browser at that URL. Thanks! Chad F. [http://www.chadfowler.com](http://www.chadfowler.com) ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Chad_F)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2007, 11:09pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/tattle-the-ruby-census/81407/2 "2007-01-08T23:09:54Z")
On Jan 8, 2007, at 13:00, Chad F. wrote: > Greetings and Happy New Year, Rubyists! > > At the first Rails Edge conference ([http://therailsedge.com](http://therailsedge.com)), Jim > Weirich, Bruce W., and I were chatting about how to improve the > RubyGems platform-specific behavior, when we realized that it would be > really helpful to have more info about the install footprint of the > Ruby community at large. Note that this will help us complete the most-requested RubyGems feature, the install --platform option. > $ tattle > > If you want to see what would be posted before posting, you can do: > > $ tattle report > > The information gets posted to [http://tattle.rubygarden.org](http://tattle.rubygarden.org). You can > view the posted data with your web browser at that URL. – Eric H. - removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid - [http://blog.segment7.net](http://blog.segment7.net) I LIT YOUR GEM ON FIRE! ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Chad_F)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2007, 11:21pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/tattle-the-ruby-census/81407/3 "2007-01-08T23:21:55Z")
Hi, > collect information. Most of the info we collect is from > Config::CONFIG, with the addition of the RubyGems version. I find this a worthy cause, and shared my configuration options… just to find out that I totally provided wrong information about my system! 😛 Reason: Tattle uses Config::CONFIG, which is where the ruby was compiled in, not what it is running on. $ uname -a Darwin 8.8.0 Darwin Kernel Version 8.8.0: Fri Sep 8 17:18:57 PDT 2006; root:xnu-792.12.6.obj~1/RELEASE\_PPC Power Macintosh powerpc But tattle reported `arch, powerpc-darwin8.4.0`, just so. I compiled ruby before on that system, upgraded, and now spread false information. 😛 Can happen, won’t happen to many, just wanted to say so, how clever your approach is, you might want to revise it a little? 😛 Anyway, very nice idea, happy to be of service providing info, have a nice day. Kashia ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Chad_F)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 2:26am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/tattle-the-ruby-census/81407/4 "2007-01-09T02:26:10Z")
On Jan 8, 2007, at 14:21, Kashia B. wrote: > compiled in, not what it is running on. > Its still darwin 8, so gems for your version of ruby should work ok > with gems compiled for any other darwin 8 version. If you built for > darwin 8 but your uname -a now reported AIX that would be cause for > alarm. – Eric H. - removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid - [http://blog.segment7.net](http://blog.segment7.net) I LIT YOUR GEM ON FIRE! ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Chad_F)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 4:27am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/tattle-the-ruby-census/81407/5 "2007-01-09T04:27:22Z")
Rob M. wrote: > > So instead of going right into hacking RubyGems as was our plan, we > > $ sudo gem install tattle > > view the posted data with your web browser at that URL. > > discussion of footprint. Yes, it’s a great idea … but … you are going to get _very_ biased statistics, because many Ruby users will be prohibited, either electronically or by organizational policy, from uploading such information. – M. Edward (Ed) Borasky, FBG, AB, PTA, PGS, MS, MNLP, NST, ACMC(P) [http://borasky-research.blogspot.com/](http://borasky-research.blogspot.com/) If God had meant for carrots to be eaten cooked, He would have given rabbits fire. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Chad_F)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 10:29am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/tattle-the-ruby-census/81407/6 "2007-01-09T10:29:52Z")
Chad F. schrieb: > To install: > > $ sudo gem install tattle Chad, why does tattle depend on the hoe and rubyforge gems? Regards, Pit ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Chad_F)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 3:11am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/tattle-the-ruby-census/81407/7 "2007-01-09T03:11:13Z")
Chad F. wrote: > collect information. Most of the info we collect is from > To submit your info: > > $ tattle > > If you want to see what would be posted before posting, you can do: > > $ tattle report > > The information gets posted to [http://tattle.rubygarden.org](http://tattle.rubygarden.org). You can > view the posted data with your web browser at that URL. This is a great idea. Are there plans to allow submission of a semi-anonymous collection of internal census data from potentially thousands of internally managed clients? Perhaps some way to submit to you directly a data file containing a summation of the data submitted individually to tattle. That --platform option sounds very interesting as does the whole discussion of footprint. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Chad_F)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 2:45pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/tattle-the-ruby-census/81407/8 "2007-01-09T14:45:34Z")
Chad F. wrote: > To submit your info: > > $ tattle sweet but it/ruby does not resolve through my proxy (even tho gems etc does)… Posting information to Tattle server. Thanks! c:/ruby/lib/ruby/1.8/net/http.rb:560:in `initialize': getaddrinfo: no address associated with hostname. (SocketError) from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/1.8/net/http.rb:560:in`connect’ from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/1.8/timeout.rb:48:in `timeout' from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/1.8/timeout.rb:76:in`timeout’ from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/1.8/net/http.rb:560:in `connect' from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/1.8/net/http.rb:553:in`do\_start’ from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/1.8/net/http.rb:542:in `start' from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/tattle-1.0.1/lib/tattle.rb:29:in`post’ from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/tattle-1.0.1/bin/tattle:14 from c:/ruby/bin/tattle:18 Well, I gave a gracious effort and died in the trenches… -stu ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Chad_F)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 3:19pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/tattle-the-ruby-census/81407/9 "2007-01-09T15:19:40Z")
On Jan 8, 2007, at 4:00 PM, Chad F. wrote: > The information gets posted to [http://tattle.rubygarden.org](http://tattle.rubygarden.org). You can > view the posted data with your web browser at that URL. > > Thanks! > Chad F. > [http://www.chadfowler.com](http://www.chadfowler.com) On a totally non-security related note, why doesn’t the rubyforge home page forward to [http://tattle.rubygarden.org/](http://tattle.rubygarden.org/) ? If I google for ‘ruby tattle’ I get the rubyforge project near the top. But no ruby garden page on the first page of results. -Mat ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Chad_F)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 6:02pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/tattle-the-ruby-census/81407/10 "2007-01-09T18:02:13Z")
On Jan 9, 2007, at 4:29 AM, Pit C. wrote: > Chad F. schrieb: > > > To install: > > $ sudo gem install tattle > > Chad, why does tattle depend on the hoe and rubyforge gems? Uh… because hoe is the single most awesome thing for ruby project development in the last 6 years? It is used in 5% of all rubygems. Get over it. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Chad_F)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 6:32pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/tattle-the-ruby-census/81407/11 "2007-01-09T18:32:18Z")
On Wed, Jan 10, 2007, Ryan D. wrote: > > Chad, why does tattle depend on the hoe and rubyforge gems? > > Uh… because hoe is the single most awesome thing for ruby project > development in the last 6 years? It is used in 5% of all rubygems. > Get over it. I think the question is “why is this neat tool useful only to the gem’s developer required to install the gem on end-user systems?” So… why is that? Ben ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Chad_F)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 6:43pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/tattle-the-ruby-census/81407/12 "2007-01-09T18:43:19Z")
On 1/9/07, stu [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) wrote: > c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/tattle-1.0.1/lib/tattle.rb:29:in `post’ > from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/tattle-1.0.1/bin/tattle:14 > from c:/ruby/bin/tattle:18 > > Well, I gave a gracious effort and died in the trenches… Proxy support is on the TODO list (in my head). You will be mourned. Chad ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Chad_F)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 6:45pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/tattle-the-ruby-census/81407/13 "2007-01-09T18:45:19Z")
On 1/9/07, Kashia B. [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) wrote: > My point was merely that I was spreading false information, and others > might > too. 😛 You’re right (both that the report was wrong and that it’s probably an edge case). I personally think we can live with it for now, but it might be worth rethinking our approach at some point. Just for the record, we didn’t think using Config::CONFIG was particularly clever 🙂 Chad ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Chad_F)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 6:37pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/tattle-the-ruby-census/81407/14 "2007-01-09T18:37:19Z")
Hi, > > Reason: Tattle uses Config::CONFIG, which is where the ruby was > > compiled in, not what it is running on. > > Its still darwin 8, so gems for your version of ruby should work ok with > gems compiled for any other darwin 8 version. If you built for darwin 8 > but your uname -a now reported AIX that would be cause for alarm. of course it works, how would you live without ruby. 😉 My point was merely that I was spreading false information, and others might too. 😛 Jo ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Chad_F)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 7:01pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/tattle-the-ruby-census/81407/15 "2007-01-09T19:01:20Z")
On 1/8/07, Rob M. [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) wrote: > > created a little census tool and an accompanying web site to help us > > This is a great idea. > > Are there plans to allow submission of a semi-anonymous collection of > internal census data from potentially thousands of internally managed > clients? Perhaps some way to submit to you directly a data file > containing a summation of the data submitted individually to tattle. We’ve talked about that. Wouldn’t be too hard. Just need to do it. Chad ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Chad_F)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 7:20pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/tattle-the-ruby-census/81407/16 "2007-01-09T19:20:22Z")
On Jan 9, 2007, at 09:31, Ben B. wrote: > So… why is that? rake test PS: Nobody complains about hoe depending on rake which is 2.5 times larger. – Eric H. - removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid - [http://blog.segment7.net](http://blog.segment7.net) I LIT YOUR GEM ON FIRE! ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Chad_F)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 7:42pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/tattle-the-ruby-census/81407/17 "2007-01-09T19:42:25Z")
On Wed, Jan 10, 2007, Eric H. wrote: > > I think the question is “why is this neat tool useful only to the > > gem’s > > developer required to install the gem on end-user systems?” > > > > So… why is that? > > rake test Makes sense, didn’t think about that. Still, though, gem install -t does the same thing and doesn’t require dependencies. > PS: Nobody complains about hoe depending on rake which is 2.5 times > larger. Rake is useful for more than just gem deployment. I shouldn’t need to install the rubyforge gem to install someone else’s library, but if they packaged it with hoe, I’m forced to. This doesn’t make sense. I’m all for both of them being folded into gem, though. If they were already there, nobody would have anything to complain about 😉 Ben ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Chad_F)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 9:49pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/tattle-the-ruby-census/81407/18 "2007-01-09T21:49:46Z")
On Jan 9, 2007, at 10:42, Ben B. wrote: > does the same thing and doesn’t require dependencies. > This is not guaranteed to work. Currently gems is very lax in its > installation and doesn’t rollback when you cancel on a dependency. > In the future it may not. > Rake is useful for more than just gem deployment. Only if you are also developing. If you’re just using libraries, it is useless. > I shouldn’t need to install the rubyforge gem to install someone > else’s > library, but if they packaged it with hoe, I’m forced to. This > doesn’t > make sense. Same for rake, but nobody complains. – Eric H. - removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid - [http://blog.segment7.net](http://blog.segment7.net) I LIT YOUR GEM ON FIRE! ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Chad_F)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 4:33am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/tattle-the-ruby-census/81407/19 "2007-01-10T04:33:22Z")
On Jan 9, 2007, at 12:31 PM, Ben B. wrote: > On Wed, Jan 10, 2007, Ryan D. wrote: > > > > Chad, why does tattle depend on the hoe and rubyforge gems? > > > > Uh… because hoe is the single most awesome thing for ruby project > > development in the last 6 years? It is used in 5% of all rubygems. > > Get over it. > > I think the question is “why is this neat tool useful only to the > gem’s > developer required to install the gem on end-user systems?” % du -sk \*/_hoe_ 12 cache/hoe-1.1.7.gem 104 doc/hoe-1.1.7 40 gems/hoe-1.1.7 4 specifications/hoe-1.1.7.gemspec In other words, who cares?!? It sounds like you’re complaining simply because it offends your sensibilities. If you have a problem with the way gems does dependencies, then file a bug with rubygems and/or offer them a well tested patch. Otherwise, drop it as it doesn’t matter one bit. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Chad\_F](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Chad_F)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 10:04pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/tattle-the-ruby-census/81407/20 "2007-01-09T22:04:48Z")
On Wed, Jan 10, 2007, Eric H. wrote: > > Makes sense, didn’t think about that. Still, though, gem install -t > > does the same thing and doesn’t require dependencies. > > This is not guaranteed to work. Currently gems is very lax in its > installation and doesn’t rollback when you cancel on a dependency. In > the future it may not. Interesting, didn’t know that. It’s always worked where I’ve used it. > > Rake is useful for more than just gem deployment. > > Only if you are also developing. If you’re just using libraries, it > is useless. Not true. I need rake to work with Rails, even though I’m not doing any development on the Rails libraries. If it were packaged with Hoe, I’d need to install hoe, but I’d never actually use the Hoe libraries again. > > I shouldn’t need to install the rubyforge gem to install someone > > else’s library, but if they packaged it with hoe, I’m forced to. > > This doesn’t make sense. > > Same for rake, but nobody complains. Not true at all: commercial ~/projects/personal/plist \> rake gem (in /Users/bbleything/projects/personal/plist) mkdir -p pkg Successfully built RubyGem Name: plist Version: 3.0.0 File: plist-3.0.0.gem mv plist-3.0.0.gem pkg/plist-3.0.0.gem commercial ~/projects/personal/plist \> sudo gem uninstall rake You have requested to uninstall the gem: rake-0.7.1 hoe-1.1.6 depends on [rake (\> 0.0.0)] gem\_plugin-0.2.1 depends on [rake (\>= 0.7)] rails-1.1.6 depends on [rake (\>= 0.7.1)] If you remove this gems, one or more dependencies will not be met. Continue with Uninstall? [Yn] y Successfully uninstalled rake version 0.7.1 Remove executables and scripts for ‘rake’ in addition to the gem? [Yn] y Removing rake commercial ~…personal/plist/pkg \> cd pkg commercial ~…personal/plist/pkg \> ls plist-3.0.0.gem commercial ~…personal/plist/pkg \> sudo gem install plist-3.0.0.gem Successfully installed plist, version 3.0.0 Installing ri documentation for plist-3.0.0… Installing RDoc documentation for plist-3.0.0… Ben [Next page](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/tattle-the-ruby-census/81407.md?page=2)