On Sep 3, 2007, at 1:16 PM, Chad P. wrote:
Devi Web D.
looking for interesting subjects.
Thoughts:
Not everyone filters ruby-talk into its own “folder” in a mail user
agent. Some of us prefer to have all incoming email appear in the
same
inbox list, but want to be able to filter by eye.
That’s why I have my MUA color Ruby-Talk posts red. They stand out
just fine.
Considering even the typical CLI-only terminal has an 80-character
width,
I don’t see how six characters is such a deal-breaker. There’s
something
wrong if people are sending 70+ character subject lines, anyway.
Do you also show the sender and the date received on that line? I
think you’ll find that most MUA setups give far less than 80 subject
characters by default. Mine sure does, and it’s not a terminal
application.
James Edward G. II
From: “James Edward G. II” [email protected]
I’m fine with the old ids, but I seriously hope we never add
something like [RUBY-TALK]. That pushes the subject to the right,
hiding valuable information and it’s not needed in filtering, as many
have pointed out. That makes it a lose, lose change in my book.
D’oh! 
While I wouldn’t mind a [RUBY-TALK] prefix, the old id numbers
in the subject, while convenient, thwarted my ability to
sort-by-subject. (Note: The message id is still contained in
the header. I presume you were referring to the one in the
subject specifically.)
Of the 24 software development related mailing lists I subscribe
to, most have the [whatever-list] subject prefix. I don’t really
care either way, as I filter by To: or Cc: anyway.
But I would NOT like to bring back the old ruby-talk id’s in the
subject. (Maybe if I didn’t use Outlook Express I could sort
by thread instead of sort by subject. But currently, sort by
subject is all I’ve got.)
Regards,
Bill
On Tue, Sep 04, 2007 at 03:23:02AM +0900, James Edward G. II wrote:
I’m pretty sure that’s not what Matz was talking about. The messages
use to contain an id number in the header. This makes it easy to
reference old posts.
I’m fine with the old ids, but I seriously hope we never add
something like [RUBY-TALK]. That pushes the subject to the right,
hiding valuable information and it’s not needed in filtering, as many
have pointed out. That makes it a lose, lose change in my book.
A message ID number would be similarly clearly identifying for me, as no
other lists to which I’m currently subscribed provide an ID number in
the
subject line – so, from where I’m sitting, it’d achieve much the same
thing (in addition to giving us easier archive searching). So – fine,
that works too.
I find it simply mind-boggling that people are so upset about a few
characters being “lost” for subject lines. How often do you send emails
with 70+ character length subject lines? How often do you feel dumb for
having done so?
On Tue, Sep 04, 2007 at 03:19:57AM +0900, Stefan R. wrote:
agent. Some of us prefer to have all incoming email appear in the same
inbox list, but want to be able to filter by eye.
Considering even the typical CLI-only terminal has an 80-character
width,
I don’t see how six characters is such a deal-breaker. There’s
something
wrong if people are sending 70+ character subject lines, anyway.
And your client of choice doesn’t support rewriting the subject as a
filter?
. . . and you wouldn’t complain if all my responses contained [RUBY] in
the subject line?
On Tue, Sep 04, 2007 at 03:35:50AM +0900, Bill K. wrote:
reference old posts.
sort-by-subject. (Note: The message id is still contained in
the header. I presume you were referring to the one in the
subject specifically.)
I hadn’t thought of that. It’s a very good point.
Okay, let’s stick with advocating for something like [RUBY-TALK] or
[RUBY] – or even [RT] – in the subject line.
If someone complains about four characters, I may have to have a good
laugh before I can respond.
James Edward G. II wrote:
Do you also show the sender and the date received on that line? I think
you’ll find that most MUA setups give far less than 80 subject
characters by default. Mine sure does, and it’s not a terminal
application.
Yup. In my thunderbird setup, with columns for subject, sender, date,
size, and some flags, I see only about 45-50 characters of subject. I’d
lose 12 them to "[RUBY-TALK] "… I was very glad to see the old
“[ruby-talk:NNNNN]” go away a few years ago.
The message ID was nice for references, though. I know it’s still there
in the headers, but thunderbird has no option (AFAIK) to display just
that one additional header field.
On Tue, Sep 04, 2007 at 03:27:28AM +0900, James Edward G. II wrote:
just fine.
That’s nice for you. Others here are not you.
application.
How few, then? Why are you using an MUA that limits you to 20
characters
in viewable subject line? Doesn’t that strike you as a little silly?
James Edward G. II wrote:
I’m pretty sure that’s not what Matz was talking about. The messages
use to contain an id number in the header. This makes it easy to
reference old posts.
It’s still in the header. Your post has this one:
X-Mail-Count: 267381
That message can be linked to like this:
http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/267381
If you’re using konqueror, you can set it up (or was it a default?) so
that typing “ruby-talk:267381” in the location bar opens that page. Some
people got in the habit of using that notation to reference ruby-talk
posts, but it doesn’t seem to be used much any more.
On Sep 3, 2007, at 1:38 PM, Chad P. wrote:
That’s why I have my MUA color Ruby-Talk posts red. They stand out
just fine.
That’s nice for you. Others here are not you.
That’s an interesting choice of words since your entire argument for
the addition is based on your specific situation. As you say, I am
not you.
James Edward G. II
Chad P. wrote:
On Tue, Sep 04, 2007 at 03:19:57AM +0900, Stefan R. wrote:
agent. Some of us prefer to have all incoming email appear in the same
inbox list, but want to be able to filter by eye.
Considering even the typical CLI-only terminal has an 80-character
width,
I don’t see how six characters is such a deal-breaker. There’s
something
wrong if people are sending 70+ character subject lines, anyway.
And your client of choice doesn’t support rewriting the subject as a
filter?
. . . and you wouldn’t complain if all my responses contained [RUBY] in
the subject line?
1 out of… how many are subscribed here?
I think I could live with it. Even though it would be incredibly hard
Regards
Stefan
On Sep 2, 3:48 pm, “Devi Web D.” [email protected]
wrote:
I don’t know who would make this sort of decision, but could we put
[RubyTalk] or [Ruby] or something at the beginning of all messages? It’s a
fairly common practice on listserves.
Why not save yourself all that grief and use
http://groups.google.com/group/ruby-talk-google?hl=en
T.
Hi,
Am Dienstag, 04. Sep 2007, 07:34:48 +0900 schrieb Bertram S.:
Am Montag, 03. Sep 2007, 07:48:25 +0900 schrieb Devi Web D.:
I don’t know who would make this sort of decision, but could we put
[RubyTalk] or [Ruby] or something at the beginning of all messages? It’s a
fairly common practice on listserves.
You can easily build the feature yourself when you like
it.
subj = headers[ :subject].first.sub /^(\s*re:)*\s*/i, "\\1 [RubyTalk] "
headers.replace :subject, subj
Then, of course, you should remove it by hand every time you
hit the “Reply” button. I don’t recommend it.
Bertram
Hi,
At Tue, 4 Sep 2007 03:45:48 +0900,
Joel VanderWerf wrote in [ruby-talk:267393]:
If you’re using konqueror, you can set it up (or was it a default?) so
that typing “ruby-talk:267381” in the location bar opens that page. Some
people got in the habit of using that notation to reference ruby-talk
posts, but it doesn’t seem to be used much any more.
You can see tons of them in the ChangeLog file.
Joel VanderWerf wrote:
“[ruby-talk:NNNNN]” go away a few years ago.
The message ID was nice for references, though. I know it’s still
there in the headers, but thunderbird has no option (AFAIK) to display
just that one additional header field.
If you’re talking about Thunderbird pressing ‘L’ (either directly or due
to some extension that I may have installed) does expand the message
list to cover the full window (hiding the folders panes) giving a lot of
extra space for your messages and the 12 columns to be visible - and
with wide screens, the situation gets better still 
Cheers,
Mohit.
9/4/2007 | 11:19 AM.
Hi,
Am Montag, 03. Sep 2007, 07:48:25 +0900 schrieb Devi Web D.:
I don’t know who would make this sort of decision, but could we put
[RubyTalk] or [Ruby] or something at the beginning of all messages? It’s a
fairly common practice on listserves.
You can easily build the feature yourself when you like
it. http://opensource.bertram-scharpf.de/sites/cropmail/.
list_ids = addrs_norm “List-Id”
if list_ids.any? or received =~ /\[email protected]\b/ then
subject =~ /^ *unsubscribe *$/ and done
case list_ids
when "ruby-talk.ruby-lang.org" then
case body
when /\bLazaridis\b/i, /\bIlias\b/i then
done
end
# ---- here comes what you asked for
subj = headers[ :subject].first.sub /^(\s*re:)*\s*/i, "\\1
[RubyTalk] "
headers.replace :subject, subj
# ----
deposit “=linux/ruby-talk”
when "ruby-core.ruby-lang.org" then
deposit "=linux/ruby-core"
end
deposit "=spam-suspicion"
end
Bertram
On Tue, Sep 04, 2007 at 04:01:56AM +0900, Trans wrote:
http://groups.google.com/group/ruby-talk-google?hl=en
Maybe because some of us like our MUAs. That was a fairly
insensitive,
even offensive, answer. I hope you only meant that as a joke.
On Tue, Sep 04, 2007 at 07:52:58AM +0900, Bertram S. wrote:
subj = headers[ :subject].first.sub /^(\s*re:)*\s*/i, "\\1 [RubyTalk] "
headers.replace :subject, subj
Then, of course, you should remove it by hand every time you
hit the “Reply” button. I don’t recommend it.
For purposes of courtesy, I haven’t done anything like that, despite the
greater convenience it would give me. I’m tempted, however, to go ahead
and add [RUBY] at the beginning of mail subject lines after some of the
responses I’ve seen in this discussion thread to the couple of us who
have expressed a preference for a list identifier in the subject. One
person even went so far as to tell me I should go ahead and do that,
since one person doing so wouldn’t be such a big burden. Others seem
bent to the task of treating anyone that likes identifiers in subject
lines like the slow children.
It gets old. I’m not accusing you of behaving in that manner – I just
found this a handy place to mention it, because you commented on the
discourteous practice of changing subject lines to conflict with list
policy. It’s something I haven’t done specifically because of the
reason
you indicated, despite the temptation of doing so in part for the
benefit
of people who think theirs are the only problems worth addressing.
On Tue, Sep 04, 2007 at 03:54:42AM +0900, James Edward G. II wrote:
inbox list, but want to be able to filter by eye.
That’s why I have my MUA color Ruby-Talk posts red. They stand out
just fine.
That’s nice for you. Others here are not you.
That’s an interesting choice of words since your entire argument for
the addition is based on your specific situation. As you say, I am
not you.
Incorrect. My reasoning is not for my specific situation. My reasoning
relates to the fact that there are many situations being affected, and
the fact that people like you are essentially of the opinion that some
of
us can go screw ourselves because our situations are not yours.
I didn’t say what I did because I figure you can go screw yourself if
your situation is different from mine. I said it because your very
individual solution to the problem is not everyone’s choice, and
shouldn’t have to be. The fact you have a solution that works for you
is
not a blanket justification for everyone else either liking it or
lumping
it.
Nobuyoshi N. wrote:
Hi,
At Tue, 4 Sep 2007 03:45:48 +0900,
Joel VanderWerf wrote in [ruby-talk:267393]:
If you’re using konqueror, you can set it up (or was it a default?) so
that typing “ruby-talk:267381” in the location bar opens that page. Some
people got in the habit of using that notation to reference ruby-talk
posts, but it doesn’t seem to be used much any more.
You can see tons of them in the ChangeLog file.
True. And you are one poster who does use “ruby-talk:NNNN” extensively
on the list.
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Chad P. wrote:
So . . . are we somehow prevented from adding [ANN] after [RUBY]?
Not technically, just preference… line length.
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