# "Start spreading the news" **URL:** \ **Category:** IronRuby\ **Created:** [August 7, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/start-spreading-the-news/192901 "2010-08-07T23:43:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/65b543/32.png) [@Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Orion_E)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/start-spreading-the-news/192901/1 "2010-08-07T23:43:50Z")
I’m sure most of you have seen this already, but I hadn’t seen Jimmy’s “farewell Microsoft” blog post posted to the list, so here it is if anyone hasn’t read it [http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2010/08/start-spreading-news-future-of-jimmy.html](http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2010/08/start-spreading-news-future-of-jimmy.html) I’d like to thank Jimmy for his work thus far on IronRuby, and certainly wish you the best of luck at your new job and living in NYC. From that point of view, it’s happy days. The news about Microsoft’s internal handling of IronRuby however makes me rather sad, and frankly a bit worried about the future of IronRuby in general. If there’s now only 2 part-time developers working on IR inside Microsoft, and they’ve been told not to develop any new features, then where does that leave us? While IronRuby is open source (yay), It unfortunately hasn’t seem to have become quite big enough (unlike JRuby) to be self sustaining. I personally also perceive somewhat of a problem, in that (again, unlike with JRuby) Microsoft “owns” IronRuby. Last I knew, committers still had to sign a copyright assignment form to MS, and MS controls all the repositories and other assorted stuff. (AFAIK Charles has personally controlled all the JRuby repos since day one and still does). This provides a LARGE (to me at least) disincentive to contribute to IronRuby in the future. Because MS owns IronRuby, I feel like if I were to commit code, it would not be for the benefit of a nice friendly community-driven open source group, it would be for the benefit of Microsoft Corporation. I was happy to accept this when MS were putting a lot of work into IronRuby, but now that they’re not, my feeling is “So Microsoft have bailed and left us hanging, why on earth would I want to do work on their behalf after they’ve just done that?” At any rate, I’ve not committed any code to IronRuby (I’ve come close several times, but never just had the time) so my opinion is largely irrelevant, I just hope that other potential committers with more time and skill than I don’t end up feeling this way too ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/65b543/32.png) [@Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Orion_E)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/start-spreading-the-news/192901/2 "2010-08-08T01:15:44Z")
I guess I never really sent the mail that I meant to send about my progression. Similar to Jimmy, I’ve also made the incredibly hard decision to move on as well. I’ve been working on the JavaScript team now for about 2 weeks. I’ve made this decision for many of the same reasons as Jimmy, but for various personal reasons, I decided to remain with MS instead of leaving. I will still be working with IronRuby, it just won’t be my primary function anymore. I also had a wonderful time on the team, and I will really miss working directly with them. I agree that IronRuby is not a big community, but I don’t know that it is a problem unless we let it be one :). I also feel that MS owning the code isn’t a problem. It’s not like it really benefits anyone inside of MS, it benefits us, the users :). It also benefits the Ruby community at large if we continue to make IronRuby a great product that people want to use in their .NET applications, because it shows people Ruby 🙂 I understand that this is sad, and for some, expected :(, but I hope that people still continue doing the awesome things people have been doing 🙂 JD From: removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid [[mailto:removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid)] On Behalf Of Orion E. Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:43 PM To: removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid Subject: [Ironruby-core] “Start spreading the news” I’m sure most of you have seen this already, but I hadn’t seen Jimmy’s “farewell Microsoft” blog post posted to the list, so here it is if anyone hasn’t read it [http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2010/08/start-spreading-news-future-of-jimmy.html](http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2010/08/start-spreading-news-future-of-jimmy.html) I’d like to thank Jimmy for his work thus far on IronRuby, and certainly wish you the best of luck at your new job and living in NYC. From that point of view, it’s happy days. The news about Microsoft’s internal handling of IronRuby however makes me rather sad, and frankly a bit worried about the future of IronRuby in general. If there’s now only 2 part-time developers working on IR inside Microsoft, and they’ve been told not to develop any new features, then where does that leave us? While IronRuby is open source (yay), It unfortunately hasn’t seem to have become quite big enough (unlike JRuby) to be self sustaining. I personally also perceive somewhat of a problem, in that (again, unlike with JRuby) Microsoft “owns” IronRuby. Last I knew, committers still had to sign a copyright assignment form to MS, and MS controls all the repositories and other assorted stuff. (AFAIK Charles has personally controlled all the JRuby repos since day one and still does). This provides a LARGE (to me at least) disincentive to contribute to IronRuby in the future. Because MS owns IronRuby, I feel like if I were to commit code, it would not be for the benefit of a nice friendly community-driven open source group, it would be for the benefit of Microsoft Corporation. I was happy to accept this when MS were putting a lot of work into IronRuby, but now that they’re not, my feeling is “So Microsoft have bailed and left us hanging, why on earth would I want to do work on their behalf after they’ve just done that?” At any rate, I’ve not committed any code to IronRuby (I’ve come close several times, but never just had the time) so my opinion is largely irrelevant, I just hope that other potential committers with more time and skill than I don’t end up feeling this way too ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/65b543/32.png) [@Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Orion_E)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 2:05am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/start-spreading-the-news/192901/3 "2010-08-08T02:05:29Z")
If Microsoft was simply sponsoring development and putting its stamp on it, it wouldn’t be a problem.. but the fact that MS “owns” it IS a bottleneck, as been from the start. “Sync to TFS” commits make me cringe everytime I see them. On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Jim D. [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) wrote: > anymore. I also had a wonderful time on the team, and I will really miss > > “farewell Microsoft” blog post posted to the list, so here it is if anyone > of view, it’s happy days. > > [http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core](http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core) – Michael L. IronRuby MVP > **[Michael Letterle's Blog ·](https://blog.prokrams.com/)** ---
**Author:** ![Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/65b543/32.png) [@Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Orion_E)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 2:40am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/start-spreading-the-news/192901/4 "2010-08-08T02:40:01Z")
I agree with Michael here. As long as the canonical source for IronRuby lives in TFS behind the big blue firewall, with only MSFT employees as core committers, there is a problem. What I propose is that we, as a community, designate the github repo as the canonical one, and that whoever controls it opens up commit access beyond the MSFT core team, perhaps to those that have already had accepted contribution. (this may already be in place, I don’t know) Bottom line is that MSFT has decided they no longer desire to invest in the project. If we want IronRuby, we’re going to have to make it happen, on our own. – Will G. [http://hotgazpacho.org/](http://hotgazpacho.org/) ---
**Author:** ![Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/65b543/32.png) [@Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Orion_E)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 4:18am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/start-spreading-the-news/192901/5 "2010-08-08T04:18:21Z")
Is there anybody who decided not to submit a patch based upon the limitations/requirements of the current process and who would contribute otherwise? Is anybody willing to run a continuous integration server that guards the repo from erroneous patches? A canonical repo needs to have such a gatekeeper. Our internal SNAP system has provided this functionality for the internal TFS repo. BTW, “Sync to TFS” was an artifact of lack of automated sync tool. We now have that tool, thanks to Jim, so you should see less of these. Code review emails has been sent for most of the changes that were made to Ruby repo anyways. So if you watched the mailing list you could easily track what’s going on. Only comments to changesets that included some internal infrastructure changes weren’t sent to the mailing list. Tomas ---
**Author:** ![Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/65b543/32.png) [@Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Orion_E)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 4:24am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/start-spreading-the-news/192901/6 "2010-08-08T04:24:47Z")
On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 4:13 AM, Tomas M. [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) wrote: > Is there anybody who decided not to submit a patch based upon the limitations/requirements of the current process and who would contribute otherwise? Certainly. I was interested from day one in contributing to the core part or IR and to the DLR. I never bothered to do so knowing the limitations of the current process. ---
**Author:** ![Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/65b543/32.png) [@Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Orion_E)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 4:48am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/start-spreading-the-news/192901/7 "2010-08-08T04:48:47Z")
what about the code better teamcity server? [http://teamcity.codebetter.com/](http://teamcity.codebetter.com/) On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 7:34 PM, Michael L. \<[removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) > wrote: > entry and a hassle. Don’t misunderstand, the work gone into them IS > otherwise? > infrastructure changes weren’t sent to the mailing list. > > > I agree with Michael here. As long as the canonical source for IronRuby > > the project. If we want IronRuby, we’re going to have to make it happen, on > > > > > > I understand that this is sad, and for some, expected L, but I hope > > > > [[mailto:removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid)] On Behalf Of Orion > > > > is if anyone hasn’t read it > > > > NYC. From that point of view, it’s happy days. > > does). > > > > > their behalf after they’ve just done that?" > > > > [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) > > > > > > * * * > > > > [http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core](http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core) > > [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) > > [http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core](http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core) – “The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct.” - Occam’s Razor [Occam's razor - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor) ---
**Author:** ![Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/65b543/32.png) [@Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Orion_E)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 5:09am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/start-spreading-the-news/192901/8 "2010-08-08T05:09:52Z")
Ok, I like to propose a pause in action. Here’s what we know. Jimmy has moved on, as has Jim. Tomas is the main person left, and from the emails we’ve received, he’s only working on it part-time. I don’t know the politics of this specific org, but being an ex-softie I do have an idea, and that hunch is that the politics that caused the reshuffle were not a conspiracy theory against IronRuby, but just normal organization dysfunction and quarterly reorganization. We also know thay we have a community of people who are passionate about IronRuby, and a secondary wave of people driven into action by the events of the past day or so. It stands to reason, from work I’ve done in other communties, that one or two will end up being long term participants because of the new awareness. That said, I don’t think that what we should do right now is fork it, since IronRuby relies heavily on the DLR which wouldn’t be controlled. This is not to say that we take it off the table. Rather we need to ask ourselves what holes have now opened up that we need to fill: 1. Jimmy provided leadership and vision for the project. We’ve now lost that, and either Tomas will pick this up internally, or we will need an external person to run with the vision. Regardless, the person will have to interface with and understand the vision from the Microsoft side. 2. Tomas already mentioned needs like a CI and gatekeeper. I bet there are lots of other needs, and if this is truly a community-owned movement, we need to engage with Tomas and the remaining team to understand what else we’re missing. 3. IronRuby has likely taken a huge blow of credibility from the enterprise adoption side, because if it isn’t supported by Microsoft PSS, they will be unlikely to use it internally or in their products. All three of these are vital points that we need to think about as a community. Someone is going to have to step up to take charge of this - and it’s not going to come from the Mono side. Tomas may be willing to take charge as much as possible - no one has asked him, and that’s a shame. IronRuby has not had a heart attack which requires CPR. That means we need to take a measured, levelheaded response as a community and work to understand how we can help and how we can respond in a way that makes sense. We already know from Jimmy’s tweets that he’s planning an email for the group - how can we take advantage of the knowledge Jim and Jimmy have, and support the work Tomas is doing? Finally, we may have a burst of energy right now, but no form of sprinting is going to help solve this. This is not a “we have to take action now before we lose the opportunity!” moment. The code is there. Many of the contributors are there, and know what is going on internally. Let’s collaborate and find a way to make this project a real success. Cory ---
**Author:** ![Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/65b543/32.png) [@Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Orion_E)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 4:45am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/start-spreading-the-news/192901/9 "2010-08-08T04:45:51Z")
We’ve had a CI server set up on CJ’s hardware for a while, it’s actually worked from time to time as well 🙂 [http://twitter.com/IronRubyCI](http://twitter.com/IronRubyCI) I’m more then willing to get that up and running again, it wasn’t a general CI server though, it was mostly for mine and Ivan’s changes for compilation under Linux. And Code review emails are just one extra step that’s not needed, it’s just bureaucracy added on by the current situation, it’s a barrier to entry and a hassle. Don’t misunderstand, the work gone into them IS appreciated, but it’s just another _groan_. And I find it hard to believe that the only reason for an internal canonical repo was lack of external CI.. that’s not what’s being implied, is it? On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 10:13 PM, Tomas M. [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) wrote: > To: [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) > Will G. > > > > of leaving. I will still be working with IronRuby, it just won’t be > > > that people want to use in their .NET applications, because it shows > > > JD > > > > > > IronRuby in general. If there’s now only 2 part-time developers > > > I personally also perceive somewhat of a problem, in that (again, > > > > > > time and skill than I don’t end up feeling this way too ☹ > > > – > > > [http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core](http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core) > > * * * > > Ironruby-core mailing list > [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) > [http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core](http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core) – Michael L. IronRuby MVP > **[Michael Letterle's Blog ·](https://blog.prokrams.com/)** ---
**Author:** ![Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/65b543/32.png) [@Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Orion_E)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 5:13am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/start-spreading-the-news/192901/10 "2010-08-08T05:13:58Z")
Contributing to IR core should not be an issue anymore. DLR is still off limits due to a possibility that parts of it might be productized and become part of .NET Framework. Tomas ---
**Author:** ![Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/65b543/32.png) [@Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Orion_E)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 5:27am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/start-spreading-the-news/192901/11 "2010-08-08T05:27:25Z")
Re CI server: cool, let’s get one up and running then. Ideally we would have 2 - one running on Windows and other on Linux to make sure that IronRuby works well on both platforms. Both should run the same test-suite (irtests script). The harness might need some tweaks for Linux and you’re welcome to submit patches. Re “Code review emails are just one extra step that’s not needed”: Code reviews are absolutely needed! It’s not a bureaucracy, it’s a quality gateway. Nobody should commit anything without a code review from the code owner. For now, that would be mostly me (core, libraries, csproj files), Jim (test harness, infrastructure) and Jimmy (Silverlight, ironRack). If anybody’s interesting in owning some part of IronRuby let know the current owner. Actually, what do you mean by “canonical” repo? What would make GIT repo canonical? Tomas ---
**Author:** ![Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/65b543/32.png) [@Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Orion_E)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 5:43am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/start-spreading-the-news/192901/12 "2010-08-08T05:43:48Z")
I could take a stab at getting a codebetter CI build up. Im pretty familiar with TeamCity, we use it at work. Not sure how CI friendly the current build script is, but hey ill give it a shot if your interested. On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tomas M. \<[removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) > wrote: > (test harness, infrastructure) and Jimmy (Silverlight, ironRack). If > [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid)] On Behalf Of Michael L. > > [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid)\> wrote: > emails has been sent for most of the changes that were made to Ruby repo > > > Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 5:36 PM > > had accepted contribution. (this may already be in place, I don’t > > wrote: > > > > > just won’t be my primary function anymore. I also had a wonderful > > > > it shows people Ruby J > > > > > > > > IronRuby in general. If there’s now only 2 part-time developers > > > > I personally also perceive somewhat of a problem, in that (again, > > > > benefit of Microsoft Corporation. > > > > largely irrelevant, I just hope that other potential committers with > > > > [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) > > Michael L. > > [http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core](http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core) – “The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct.” - Occam’s Razor [Occam's razor - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor) ---
**Author:** ![Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/65b543/32.png) [@Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Orion_E)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 5:59am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/start-spreading-the-news/192901/13 "2010-08-08T05:59:01Z")
+1 Sent from my iPhone ---
**Author:** ![Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/65b543/32.png) [@Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Orion_E)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 11:30am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/start-spreading-the-news/192901/14 "2010-08-08T11:30:50Z")
Thanks Cory for the levelheadedness. It’s all too easy to get upset and overreact (as I well know) Re Tomas’ question about what would it take to make the github repo canonical. To me, it would need several things 1. The release builds need to be built directly from this repo 2. All the official project webpages need to refer to this repo as the main one ---
**Author:** ![Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/65b543/32.png) [@Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Orion_E)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 6:10am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/start-spreading-the-news/192901/15 "2010-08-08T06:10:44Z")
If you can get me access I’d be happy to help you out with that. Especially if we can get access to a linux and win box in there. From: removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid [[mailto:removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid)] On Behalf Of Bobby J. Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 8:43 PM To: removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid Subject: Re: [Ironruby-core] “Start spreading the news” I could take a stab at getting a codebetter CI build up. Im pretty familiar with TeamCity, we use it at work. Not sure how CI friendly the current build script is, but hey ill give it a shot if your interested. On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tomas M. \ wrote: Re CI server: cool, let’s get one up and running then. Ideally we would have 2 - one running on Windows and other on Linux to make sure that IronRuby works well on both platforms. Both should run the same test-suite (irtests script). The harness might need some tweaks for Linux and you’re welcome to submit patches. Re “Code review emails are just one extra step that’s not needed”: Code reviews are absolutely needed! It’s not a bureaucracy, it’s a quality gateway. Nobody should commit anything without a code review from the code owner. For now, that would be mostly me (core, libraries, csproj files), Jim (test harness, infrastructure) and Jimmy (Silverlight, ironRack). If anybody’s interesting in owning some part of IronRuby let know the current owner. Actually, what do you mean by “canonical” repo? What would make GIT repo canonical? Tomas ---
**Author:** ![Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/65b543/32.png) [@Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Orion_E)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/start-spreading-the-news/192901/16 "2010-08-08T16:49:15Z")
I agree with Cory, too, but on the other hand it would be very helpful if Microsoft (I mean someone who can speak for Microsoft) clearly say what are they intentions with IronRuby (and maybe IronPython, too) for the future. Are they “releasing IronRuby to the community”? Is Microsoft like to (officially) participate in future in IronRuby development? If so, in what way? As a project owner? And so on… Only knowing in what situation we really are we can make our decisions about what to do. More clarity will also help with using the technology, for example, I am considering using IronRuby for one project and now I do not know what to expect from future (questions like - will development of IronRuby continue, what about Silverlight and Azure support, what about v1.9 compatibility, …) and it is now became problematic to make some of decisions. thanks, Slavo. ---
**Author:** ![Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/65b543/32.png) [@Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Orion_E)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/start-spreading-the-news/192901/17 "2010-08-08T14:51:38Z")
I agree 100% with Cory, we just need to calm down, regroup, give support to Tomas, make our opinions heard and continue using the technology that helps us become way more productive in our jobs. On the other hand Jimmy will still be around, he just moved to another job. Regards, Eduardo B. Cory F. wrote: > Ok, I like to propose a pause in action. > > Here’s what we know. Jimmy has moved on, as has Jim. Tomas is the main > person left, and from the emails we’ve received, he’s only working on it > part-time. I don’t know the politics of this specific org, but being an > ex-softie I do have an idea, and that hunch is that the politics that > caused the reshuffle were not a conspiracy theory against IronRuby, but > just normal organization dysfunction and quarterly reorganization. > > We also know thay we have a community of people who are passionate about > IronRuby, and a secondary wave of people driven into action by the > events of the past day or so. It stands to reason, from work I’ve done > in other communties, that one or two will end up being long term > participants because of the new awareness. > > That said, I don’t think that what we should do right now is fork it, > since IronRuby relies heavily on the DLR which wouldn’t be controlled. > This is not to say that we take it off the table. Rather we need to ask > ourselves what holes have now opened up that we need to fill: > > 1. Jimmy provided leadership and vision for the project. We’ve now lost > that, and either Tomas will pick this up internally, or we will need an > external person to run with the vision. Regardless, the person will have > to interface with and understand the vision from the Microsoft side. > > 2. Tomas already mentioned needs like a CI and gatekeeper. I bet there > are lots of other needs, and if this is truly a community-owned > movement, we need to engage with Tomas and the remaining team to > understand what else we’re missing. > > 3. IronRuby has likely taken a huge blow of credibility from the > enterprise adoption side, because if it isn’t supported by Microsoft > PSS, they will be unlikely to use it internally or in their products. > > All three of these are vital points that we need to think about as a > community. Someone is going to have to step up to take charge of this - > and it’s not going to come from the Mono side. Tomas may be willing to > take charge as much as possible - no one has asked him, and that’s a > shame. > > IronRuby has not had a heart attack which requires CPR. That means we > need to take a measured, levelheaded response as a community and work to > understand how we can help and how we can respond in a way that makes > sense. We already know from Jimmy’s tweets that he’s planning an email > for the group - how can we take advantage of the knowledge Jim and Jimmy > have, and support the work Tomas is doing? > > Finally, we may have a burst of energy right now, but no form of > sprinting is going to help solve this. This is not a “we have to take > action now before we lose the opportunity!” moment. The code is there. > Many of the contributors are there, and know what is going on > internally. Let’s collaborate and find a way to make this project a real > success. > > Cory ---
**Author:** ![Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/65b543/32.png) [@Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Orion_E)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/start-spreading-the-news/192901/18 "2010-08-08T17:52:30Z")
To Cory’s point about IronRuby’s credibility in the Enterprise: I think its certainly true that if IronRuby is not a MS supported tool, there will be shops that will not be able to use it. On the other hand, there are still plenty of other shops that could use it, if only they understand what they could use it for and how. To date, the story of what IronRuby is “for” has been rather weak. I know it’s a language, and so it’s possibilities are just about endless, but what are the main areas we think people can derive significant benefit from using it? If IronRuby really does end up being primarily community driven, we need to come up with a much better story around what it is for, and helping people get started with using it for those things. This could help drive adoption, which could in turn help drive contributors. Some examples of things IronRuby may be 'for": 1. Unit Testing ( [kwblog: Testing C# with RSpec and Ruby](http://kevin-berridge.blogspot.com/2010/08/testing-c-with-rspec-and-ruby.html) ) 2. Embedded Scripting ( [Jimmy Schementi \> IronRuby @ RubyConf 2009 – Part 3.5: Embedding IronRuby](http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2009/12/ironruby-rubyconf-2009-part-35.html)) 3. Silverlight ( [Jimmy Schementi \> Walk-through: Silverlight Flickr Client in IronRuby](http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2008/08/walk-through-silverlight-flickr-client.html) ) 4. ? Jimmy talked about #1 and #2 here: [http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2010/04/mix10-part-3-using-dynamic-languages-in.html](http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2010/04/mix10-part-3-using-dynamic-languages-in.html) Thanks, Kevin Berridge ---
**Author:** ![Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/65b543/32.png) [@Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Orion_E)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/start-spreading-the-news/192901/19 "2010-08-08T23:17:23Z")
1. Rails on .NET I think [asp.net](http://asp.net) mvc took a lot of the wind out of this particular scenario, but rails is still literally _years_ ahead of MVC in both maturity and thinking. If we could get rails under ironruby easily deplorable to iis, I think this would help a lot On question I’d REALLY like answered is this: Does Jimmy still have commit access to the main repos on github now that he’s left MS? Does anyone else outside MS have this? Thanks, Orion ---
**Author:** ![Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/65b543/32.png) [@Orion\_E](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Orion_E)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 11:39pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/start-spreading-the-news/192901/20 "2010-08-08T23:39:37Z")
At this point Jimmy might, but the only one that should be commiting there directly is the automated account. Once we get official word from MS on what will happen with everything, I’d be happy to discuss the fate of the IronRuby organization on Github ☺ From: [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) [[mailto:removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid)] On Behalf Of Orion E. Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:07 PM To: [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) Subject: Re: [Ironruby-core] “Start spreading the news” 1. Rails on .NET I think [asp.net](http://asp.net)[http://asp.net](http://asp.net) mvc took a lot of the wind out of this particular scenario, but rails is still literally _years_ ahead of MVC in both maturity and thinking. If we could get rails under ironruby easily deplorable to iis, I think this would help a lot On question I’d REALLY like answered is this: Does Jimmy still have commit access to the main repos on github now that he’s left MS? Does anyone else outside MS have this? Thanks, Orion On 9/08/2010, at 3:36 AM, Kevin Berridge \<[removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid)[mailto:removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid)\> wrote: To Cory’s point about IronRuby’s credibility in the Enterprise: I think its certainly true that if IronRuby is not a MS supported tool, there will be shops that will not be able to use it. On the other hand, there are still plenty of other shops that could use it, if only they understand what they could use it for and how. To date, the story of what IronRuby is “for” has been rather weak. I know it’s a language, and so it’s possibilities are just about endless, but what are the main areas we think people can derive significant benefit from using it? If IronRuby really does end up being primarily community driven, we need to come up with a much better story around what it is for, and helping people get started with using it for those things. This could help drive adoption, which could in turn help drive contributors. Some examples of things IronRuby may be 'for": 1. Unit Testing ([http://kevin-berridge.blogspot.com/2010/08/testing-c-with-rspec-and-ruby.html](http://kevin-berridge.blogspot.com/2010/08/testing-c-with-rspec-and-ruby.html)) 2. Embedded Scripting ([Jimmy Schementi \> IronRuby @ RubyConf 2009 – Part 3.5: Embedding IronRuby](http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2009/12/ironruby-rubyconf-2009-part-35.html)) 3. Silverlight ([Jimmy Schementi \> Walk-through: Silverlight Flickr Client in IronRuby](http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2008/08/walk-through-silverlight-flickr-client.html)) 4. ? Jimmy talked about #1 and #2 here: > **[Jimmy Schementi \> MIX10, Part 3 - Using dynamic languages in existing...](http://jimmy.schementi.com/2010/04/mix10-part-3-using-dynamic-languages-in.html)** Thanks, Kevin Berridge On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Slavo F. \<[removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid)[mailto:removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid)\> wrote: I agree with Cory, too, but on the other hand it would be very helpful if Microsoft (I mean someone who can speak for Microsoft) clearly say what are they intentions with IronRuby (and maybe IronPython, too) for the future. Are they “releasing IronRuby to the community”? Is Microsoft like to (officially) participate in future in IronRuby development? If so, in what way? As a project owner? And so on… Only knowing in what situation we really are we can make our decisions about what to do. More clarity will also help with using the technology, for example, I am considering using IronRuby for one project and now I do not know what to expect from future (questions like - will development of IronRuby continue, what about Silverlight and Azure support, what about v1.9 compatibility, …) and it is now became problematic to make some of decisions. thanks, Slavo. On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Eduardo B. \<[removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid)[mailto:removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid)\> wrote: > > We also know thay we have a community of people who are passionate about > > > > 1. Jimmy provided leadership and vision for the project. We’ve now lost > > enterprise adoption side, because if it isn’t supported by Microsoft > > understand how we can help and how we can respond in a way that makes > > > > Cory > > – > Posted via [http://www.ruby-forum.com/](http://www.ruby-forum.com/). > > * * * > > Ironruby-core mailing list > [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid)[mailto:removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) > [http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core](http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core) * * * Ironruby-core mailing list [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid)[mailto:removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) [http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core](http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core) * * * Ironruby-core mailing list [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid)[mailto:removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) [http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core](http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core) [Next page](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/start-spreading-the-news/192901.md?page=2)