Why does Ruby insist on using a Webboard instead of a regular newsgroup
forum?
That impression is probably at the root of your errors here. ruby-talk
is a mailing list. It is not a webboard. ruby-forum.com is a gateway to the mailing list.
I think utter and blatant misconceptions such as these are good reason
to augment and/or adjust the “please read” blurb for ruby-forum.com …
we apparently are not getting through.
Perhaps something along the lines of: “This forum is a gateway to a
mailing list; it is NOT a forum on its own. All normal mailing list
etiquette and standards apply.”
and/or: “When posting to the ruby-talk mailing list via this forum, you
should consider yourself a VISITOR in a foreign place. As such, please
acquaint yourself with some rules and standards of etiquette. ”
and/or: “Be forewarned that people have been seriously flamed for their
posts to ruby-talk via this forum. See [here] for what/how NOT to
post.”
We don’t push people away who have at least shown that they’re willing
to look or at least remember that they’re posting to a mailing list
with thousands of recipients.
Why does Ruby insist on using a Webboard instead of a regular newsgroup
forum?
That impression is probably at the root of your errors here. ruby-talk
is a mailing list. It is not a webboard. ruby-forum.com is a gateway to the mailing list.
Ruby doesn’t insist. Ruby-forum.com is a service – of dubious value,
much of the time – provided by a member of the community who
developed the software behind it.
ruby-talk has also historically been associated with comp.lang.ruby,
but our gateway host for that disappeared due to … issues. (Not spam
or anything, but changing providers and a reneging on a promise by the
new provider. However, yet another new provider seems to be in the
works.)
Your wildly erroneous assumptions are one of the reasons that I loathe the current state of the ruby-forum.com integration. This is despite the following message at the top of a new post or reply.
Please read before posting
This forum is connected to a mailing list that is read by thousands of
people.
Before you post, please use the FAQ, the Ruby documentation and Google
to
find an answer to your question. If you can’t find an answer there,
make sure to
include all relevant information that is necessary to help you in your
post.
If you want to see this mailing list as it actually is, I suggest
subscribing to it by visiting the Ruby home page
(http://www.ruby-lang.org/).
Again, this is untrue. There is anger about the level of laziness
and lack of manners from a lot of ruby-forum.com posters. Consider two
posts recently, even after the latest changes from Andreas.
a third one just now reads (for anyone not following the other thread
its from about duplicate posts):
To be honest I wonder if some cause for misunderstanding isn’t
inherent in the name “ruby-forum” itself. Technically it is a neat
piece of hackery–it’s rather impressive that it can maintain the
illusion that the mailing list is a forum. Socially there is a huge
divide, as we’ve seen.
I think that rather than it being a problem of warnings or naming, it is
a problem of context. You behave a specific way when using a mailing
list versus a web forum. If you’re in the context of a web forum, it’s
going to be very difficult to behave in a mailing list fashion. Hence
the unquoted, pithy, and sometimes rude emails we see here on ruby-talk
that originated from the forum. I stay away from the forum because
despite knowing that it’s a gateway to a mailing list, I still have a
very strong urge to use it like a forum. Context is a very powerful
persuader.
The solution? Change the context of the website to look/feel more like a
mailing list.
That impression is probably at the root of your errors here. ruby-talk
is a mailing list. It is not a webboard. ruby-forum.com is a gateway to the mailing list.
I think utter and blatant misconceptions such as these are good reason
to augment and/or adjust the “please read” blurb for ruby-forum.com …
we apparently are not getting through.
To be honest I wonder if some cause for misunderstanding isn’t
inherent in the name “ruby-forum” itself. Technically it is a neat
piece of hackery–it’s rather impressive that it can maintain the
illusion that the mailing list is a forum. Socially there is a huge
divide, as we’ve seen.
Perhaps something along the lines of: “This forum is a gateway to a
mailing list; it is NOT a forum on its own. All normal mailing list
etiquette and standards apply.”
I’m just thinking out loud here, but the fact that these repeated
explanations haven’t gotten the point across makes me think that if
people see a web site titled “ruby-forum.com”, the vast majority are
going to treat it like a forum. Perhaps if it was renamed to something
like “ruby-gateway.com” or the like we’d fare better.
The solution? Change the context of the website to look/feel more like a
mailing list.
Hmm… fair enough, but how could Andreas approach this? One post per
page, with threads shown in tree form only?
At first glance, the only significant difference is the lack of or need
for sufficient quoting. Otherwise, “quality standards” [can] apply just
as equally to mailing lists as to forums, IMO.
