On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 5:11 PM, Matt L. [email protected]
wrote:
I have noticed that this list has been taking on a rather nasty tone lately.
I wouldn’t call it “nasty” - still the tone has degraded. There are a
few other changes I have observed.
- Discussions of advanced topics almost vanished these days.
- There are a lot beginner questions.
- There are also quite a few questions which either look like
homework or can be answered easily from documentation or testing with
IRB.
- Matz, Nobu and other folks from Japan seem to show up much more
rarely than they used to.
Even though I still read (and reply) here pretty often I have to admit
it has become a less interesting place than it used to be.
As a long time Ruby user and memeber of the Ruby community, I don’t think
this is a good thing.
Certainly not.
Kind regards
robert
On 27 December 2012 16:33, Robert K. [email protected]
wrote:
- There are also quite a few questions which either look like
homework or can be answered easily from documentation or testing with
IRB.
They are less requests for help than demands that we do their work for
them. “Eternal September” springs to mind. We get emails from
outsourcing
companies that advertise X years of RoR experience available for low
prices
and I have the feeling that some of the posts we see here are from the
same
people who have misrepresented themselves to a client to get the work.
As a long time Ruby user and memeber of the Ruby community, I don’t think
this is a good thing.
Certainly not.
You can only get out what you put in and too many of the posts feel like
this list is a “first resort” rather than a “last resort”. If they can
put
some serious effort into their questions (too many seem to assume that
we
are psychic) then I am willing to spend time helping on or off list.
Helping people is an act of charity, I am not obligated to help everyone
who can’t be bothered to do the most rudimentary of Google searches and
I
am not obligated to suffer fools.
I replied to Sean W. because I believe that having him spend $150
on
a certificate will do nothing for him in becoming a Ruby developer. At
least he had put some effort into the question “how can I become a Ruby
developer” and he deserved some help. His actual question was “Is it
worth
the time?” and the answer is “No”. But to say that is a disservice, it
needs to be explained. But the assumption that a certificate will be of
any
help is so wrong there is nothing good to say about it.
There are a lot of ways to express that idea without implying the asker
is
a stupid, crap programmer.
Be nice, it’s really not that hard.
On Dec 27, 2012 10:02 AM, “Peter H.”
[email protected]
On 27 December 2012 18:11, Jonan S. [email protected]
wrote:
There are a lot of ways to express that idea without implying the asker is
a stupid, crap programmer.
Be nice, it’s really not that hard.
I have no desire to be nice, I want to make sure that I communicate.
Lets
be clear here, there was no implication in my post. No matter how you
sugarcoat it “I suspect that you are a really really crap programmer”
implies nothing, it spells it out clearly. How was that implying
anything?
You have misrepresented me, someone who is blunt to the point of being
obnoxious, as being subtle when I spoke plainly. Pretending that somehow
I
was being deceitful in my use of language insults me and makes me wonder
just how blunt I will have to be to get you to understand that what I
write
is what I mean.
No Peter is right. I’m not that great of a programmer I’ll admit. I
could be better. I have met developers who are far better and are far
more impressive than me. I’ll be honest, I’m not a genius.
Though not all certifications are considered worthless. The SCJA and the
SCJP are pretty well respected within the Java communities. They’re
taken pretty seriously. MCSE is also pretty well regarded and some
companies even require them.
I actually use brainbench certifications pretty regularly. They’re
convenient for testing yourself against others and also getting a
somewhat standard idea of whats worth knowing within a specific topic.
Books and authors can vary on what they cover and consider worth
covering – a standardized test that test people from multiple
backgrounds helps one to know where one stands. Also brainbench offers a
pretty substantial list of tests for a huge variety of technical topics.
It usefully to know which technologies one is strongest and weakest in
– or have an idea of, at the very least. I don’t think it’s much
different from reading a math textbook – you can’t really understand
the topic without attempting some of the problem.
Standardize testing isn’t necessarily worthless.
Though obviously, not all communities respect specific certifications
offered within a community. That’s why I asked.
On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 8:56 PM, Sean A. [email protected]
wrote:
Though not all certifications are considered worthless. The SCJA and the
SCJP are pretty well respected within the Java communities. They’re
taken pretty seriously.
Well, I beg to difer. Over the many interviews for Java developers
that I’ve done for my company, the two people that had the SCJP in
their CV were unable to explain what the “finally” keyword means. The
first time it was shocking for me, since I thought the certificate was
indeed an indication of, at least, knowledge. The second time opened
my eyes. It was also quite weird that both failed to answer the same
question. Nowadays I don’t give much credit to anything in the CV 
My two cents,
Jesus.
Alphonse 23 wrote in post #1090309:
aaa, thanks Dave for the lengthy response. Valid points. I’m still going
to consider taking the exam, just because it helps me feel like I have a
standardize knowledge of the particular language. I like having a
benchmark in my newbie case.
I understand why it’s important to participate in the community. That’s
partially why I want to get into ruby development, because they have
such an active community.
But no doubt, maybe I shouldn’t spend too much time talking and more
time thinking about how to fill my github with interesting examples of
my coding work.
Hey!
I am also planning to go through this certification. Did you already
try? And about mock tests and books? Recommend any?
Thanks
Flavio
“Jesús Gabriel y Galán” [email protected] wrote in post
#1090584:
On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 8:56 PM, Sean A. [email protected]
wrote:
Though not all certifications are considered worthless. The SCJA and the
SCJP are pretty well respected within the Java communities. They’re
taken pretty seriously.
Well, I beg to difer. Over the many interviews for Java developers
that I’ve done for my company, the two people that had the SCJP in
their CV were unable to explain what the “finally” keyword means. The
first time it was shocking for me, since I thought the certificate was
indeed an indication of, at least, knowledge. The second time opened
my eyes. It was also quite weird that both failed to answer the same
question. Nowadays I don’t give much credit to anything in the CV
My two cents,
Jesus.
Indeed!
I was on the other side of the table once… And i agree with you… I
got the EJB Certification after imersing myself for several days
studying, memorizing, and running simulated tests. I passed with score
75 but I have never really worked with EJB.
Some months latter, I started to forget everytthing I learned.
So, certification with no previous experience is useless… It is very
good when you are already working with the technology, but if this is
only to decorate your CV, it worth 2 cents…
I’m considering taking this test as well. I’ve been programming in Ruby
now for a little over a month and I picked it up very fast, after
walking through a couple VTC.com training courses. I’m currently working
on a Project Management application in rails, and I previously worked
with ASP.net MVC, and I can tell you that ASP.net seems like a total rip
off Ruby, similar to how C# was to Java. In any case, I absolutely love
Rails and will never go back to ASP.net as a first choice. I personally
do not think that certifications are worthless, but I think if you ask
people who aren’t certified, this is usually their answer. I’ve pursued
and obtained certifications in Java, I’ve got an MCSE, I also obtained
HP-UX and SCSA certifications a long time ago, as well as certifications
in Clarity PPM. I went from making $35/hr to $125/hr, not necessarily
because of the certifications, but because I was diligent in my craft
and understood that though a cert may open a door to a conversation, I
still had to know what I was doing. Bottom line if you are a programmer,
a true programmer, you should be able to code in anything. The concepts
in programming are very similar across languages. It’s really the
syntax that changes. Nowadays, HTML, CSS, and JavaScript are pretty much
foundation prerequisites, given most everything you code today will be
rendered in HTML. Having working knowledge of SQL is also critical,
though new frameworks like the Entity Framework and ActiveRecord pretty
much manage that for you, which helps to keep you database neutral.
Again, if you’re a programmer at an architect level like me, you should
be able to code in anything. And the best way to become good at
something is to actually do it. The difference between an elite
consultant and an average Joe is the ability to convert knowledge into
practical application. It does no good to memorize every word in he
dictionary if you can’t put sensible sentences together.
On 27 December 2012 19:56, Sean A. [email protected] wrote:
I’m not that great of a programmer I’ll admit. I could be better.
With that attitude you will become a better programmer. Well that and a
desire to learn.